Author Topic: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting  (Read 6803 times)

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Offline PraXis

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2011, 08:18:02 AM »
I guess I might've judged wrongly then, but don't you realize, Praxis, that that particularly conspiracy theory is anti-Semitic in origin?  And that the word "globalist" only gets substituted in outside of white supremacist forums?

True, I should've been more clear. I know all about the "Zionist" conspiracies and those racist a-holes at places like stormfront piss me off to no end.

The conspiracy theories that I lean toward are the typical NWO-type stuff.. when you hear me say globalists, just think of global elitists that really control what is going on...and they are anti-Semitic in origin, but to me, it has nothing to do with Judaism.. if anything they're Satanists.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2011, 08:24:03 AM »
First we have endless potential for "Prophets of War" jokes and now PraXis is giving us fuel for "A Rite of Passage" jokes.  Oh lawdy.  I've never seen any hard evidence that proves this NWO or "gobalist banker puppetmasters" exist in that fashion, and all "evidence" I have seen is laughable.

On topic: I am actually surprised the cost is that high, but when you break it all down it makes sense why.  Just not something you think about when we're talking about why the war is bad.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2011, 08:28:56 AM »
:neverusethis:
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Offline El Barto

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2011, 08:40:46 AM »
Like many of the popular conspiracies, I find slivers of truth in this one, but certainly not that they're secretly running the world.  If anything,  I'd say that they might be influencing certain aspects, but more often than not they're merely exploiting the outcomes of global interactions.  I find it unfathomable that some secret society caused WWII to occur, but to assume that there isn't a consolidated strategy amongst the global elite to take advantage of such things would just be naive. 
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Offline PraXis

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2011, 08:43:21 AM »
"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas." - Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization
 
"A world government can intervene militarily in the internal affairs of any nation when it disapproves of their activities." - Kofi Annan, U.N. Secretary General

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or *promulgated* , that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."

Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."

Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets

 
"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."

 
David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.

"The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [NWO] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other."

Myron Fagan

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."

David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

- David Rockefeller, Memoirs, 2002

Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2011, 08:44:56 AM »
Honestly I think it's more an issue of the military-industrial complex.  Midwestern and Southern America (esp. Texas) make money researching and manufacturing weapons and other military technology.  The only way to keep the business going is to keep getting into war with other countries.  Therefore, Midwestern and Southern American profit off of war.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2011, 09:32:26 PM »
What the hell does a bunch of random quotes by people, who aren't even bankers, have to do with your argument Praxis?

Honestly I think it's more an issue of the military-industrial complex.  Midwestern and Southern America (esp. Texas) make money researching and manufacturing weapons and other military technology.  The only way to keep the business going is to keep getting into war with other countries.  Therefore, Midwestern and Southern American profit off of war.

I'd only add to this in one way: a few people are benefiting form this the most. Most people don't actually see the benefits of this, but the people in Washington who lobby and fund the campaigns to elect anybody are profiting.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2011, 09:34:42 PM »
From what little I know, this quagmire goes all the way back to Eisenhower, who told his successors to get America off the military-industrial complex cycle.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2011, 10:55:42 PM »
From what little I know, this quagmire goes all the way back to Eisenhower, who told his successors to get America off the military-industrial complex cycle.
Not exactly.  It didn't just up and start with his administration.  Like most things,  it was a gradual formation.  He saw it coming and warned the people to be wary of it.  Sadly,  he was barking up the wrong tree.
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And considering the amount of militarization since 9/11,  it's really snowballing now. 
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2011, 05:23:20 AM »
Oh yeah, I didn't mean the relationship itself started with him, just that by the end of his term was when it really began to be a problem. Although if you ask me it didn't start much earlier, probably around the time WWII started.
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2011, 05:36:34 AM »
Not really.  One would think in that case America wouldn't have needed to be brought kicking and screaming into the conflict.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2011, 05:53:07 AM »
Well it wasn't the case; the process to war with Japan way predates Pearl Harbor, even going back to the turn of the century.

Anyway, I really entered this thread to say that everything would be better if we just remembered one thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8C4AIFgUg :biggrin:
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Online Chino

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2011, 08:41:33 AM »
I would have rather seen that 3.7 trillion spent on hiring American workers to rebuild build our ready to crumble infrastructure. It's all going to have to be overhauled in the next 40 years anyways.

Offline PraXis

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2011, 09:11:15 AM »
I would have rather seen that 3.7 trillion spent on hiring American workers to rebuild build our ready to crumble infrastructure. It's all going to have to be overhauled in the next 40 years anyways.

So all that money we pay for road/bridge tolls, sales' tax, and property taxes... where does it go?! It's supposed to fund infrastructure!

Offline El Barto

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2011, 09:25:02 AM »
It goes to providing health care to Iraqis.  Where have you been?
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2011, 11:14:54 AM »
It goes to providing health care to Iraqis.  Where have you been?

WEll first it goes to killing them. Then providing health care!

Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2011, 12:44:16 PM »
I would have rather seen that 3.7 trillion spent on hiring American workers to rebuild build our ready to crumble infrastructure. It's all going to have to be overhauled in the next 40 years anyways.

So all that money we pay for road/bridge tolls, sales' tax, and property taxes... where does it go?! It's supposed to fund infrastructure!

Tolls for road/bridges generally goes bck to the same roads and bridges you're being tolled for... there is no federal sales tax, nor federal property tax.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2011, 09:59:29 PM »
Put that number in perspective for a moment.  That number means we've spent about 361 billion dollars per year on fighting wars since September 11th.  Considering the gross domestic product has been over 10 trillion for all that time, the number starts to not seem so bad.  Even though the GDP right now is 14 trillion dollars, let's say the United States's GDP has been 10 trillion per year since 9/11.   That means we've spent less than four percent of our gross domestic product on fighting wars.

I'm not saying the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are or were 100% the right thing, but arguing against them on financial grounds seems to me to demonstrate a lack of perspective.
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2011, 10:10:50 PM »
Put that number in perspective for a moment.  That number means we've spent about 361 billion dollars per year on fighting wars since September 11th.  Considering the gross domestic product has been over 10 trillion for all that time, the number starts to not seem so bad.  Even though the GDP right now is 14 trillion dollars, let's say the United States's GDP has been 10 trillion per year since 9/11.   That means we've spent less than four percent of our gross domestic product on fighting wars.

I'm not saying the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are or were 100% the right thing, but arguing against them on financial grounds seems to me to demonstrate a lack of perspective.

Wait, 3.7 Trillion dollars wasted on two wars when people all over this country need jobs, food, and housing? I don't think my perspective is wrong at all.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2011, 12:11:04 AM »
Put that number in perspective for a moment.  That number means we've spent about 361 billion dollars per year on fighting wars since September 11th.  Considering the gross domestic product has been over 10 trillion for all that time, the number starts to not seem so bad.  Even though the GDP right now is 14 trillion dollars, let's say the United States's GDP has been 10 trillion per year since 9/11.   That means we've spent less than four percent of our gross domestic product on fighting wars.

I'm not saying the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are or were 100% the right thing, but arguing against them on financial grounds seems to me to demonstrate a lack of perspective.
You can make anything seem small when you compare it to GDP.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2011, 07:33:19 AM »
Not for long.

Nah, I'm jk. :P
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2011, 09:19:48 PM »
Put that number in perspective for a moment.  That number means we've spent about 361 billion dollars per year on fighting wars since September 11th.  Considering the gross domestic product has been over 10 trillion for all that time, the number starts to not seem so bad.  Even though the GDP right now is 14 trillion dollars, let's say the United States's GDP has been 10 trillion per year since 9/11.   That means we've spent less than four percent of our gross domestic product on fighting wars.

I'm not saying the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are or were 100% the right thing, but arguing against them on financial grounds seems to me to demonstrate a lack of perspective.
You can make anything seem small when you compare it to GDP.

I was gonna say, let's look at health care costs then, and the benefits from that. Or what it would cost to massively invest in solar power. Imagine $100 billion to solar power productions and installation for personal use; it would be less then .1% of our GDP, and would be a huge investment in solar power. Why not 361 billion? This would drastically change the electric grid for the better, and save consumers a lot of money that they could then used in other area's of the economy. Why not $50 billion in geothermal while we're talking about it? There's even more savings, and less pollution.


Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2011, 06:19:14 AM »
So I thought this was interesting:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-general-army-deploys-psy-ops-on-u-s-senators-20110223

The Psy-Ops division of the Army tries to persuade senators to legislate for more military funding.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2011, 02:04:43 PM »
So I thought this was interesting:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-general-army-deploys-psy-ops-on-u-s-senators-20110223

The Psy-Ops division of the Army tries to persuade senators to legislate for more military funding.

God damn. Whose to say they don't do similiar things to Oama?

Offline ricky

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2011, 09:11:27 PM »
how the hell could you read stupid crap like:


The U.S. Army illegally ordered a team of soldiers specializing in "psychological operations" to manipulate visiting American senators into providing more troops and funding for the war, Rolling Stone has learned



and think that it's for real?



im sorry but this hits close to home. when it comes to funding for troops, all goes out the window. you provide those men what they need to get home safe, end of discussion.



  
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2011, 10:13:54 PM »
you provide those men what they need to get home safe, end of discussion.

I agree, but how does this equate with more funding for the war? More money to the war does not mean that the money will be spent protecting our troops; especially with Iraq and Afghanistan, contractors and the military-industrial complex have a lot to gain.

Seriously, discrediting something becuase it seems absurd? I highly doubt Rolling Stones would publish this without any evidence to support their claims.

Offline ricky

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #61 on: July 04, 2011, 05:26:40 PM »
i do.

first off - in the army at least, there is no team of "soldiers" specializing in "psychological operations", that's just rolling stone propaganda bull crap.  anything medically (including psychologically) related is dealt with the medical branch, as no registered member, either enlisted or officer, can deal with anything medically related without a proper pre-requisite (pre med degree, etc). second, the term of soldier is used loosely, as any person involved in the army can be called a soldier, even if they never fire a weapon in combat. and yes, that includes psychologists. while they may "claim" to have evidence supporting their accusation, remember that the claim in the first place is absurd, and it's easy to present "evidence" in a misconstrued way as to make it seem verifiable. while i can't prove it, i can tell you that whoever published and edited this story has never had experience in the army.


second of all, if the moron who published the article knew anything about the military, or more specifically psy-op units, he would have known that United States PSYOP are prohibited by law from conducting missions on domestic audiences, especially US leadership. but that somehow got left out of the article, didn't it?
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #62 on: July 04, 2011, 05:36:50 PM »
second of all, if the moron who published the article knew anything about the military, or more specifically psy-op units, he would have known that United States PSYOP are prohibited by law from conducting missions on domestic audiences, especially US leadership. but that somehow got left out of the article, didn't it?

At this point, I have to assume you didn't even read the article...the first paragraph:

Quote
The U.S. Army illegally ordered a team of soldiers specializing in "psychological operations" to manipulate visiting American senators into providing more troops and funding for the war, Rolling Stone has learned – and when an officer tried to stop the operation, he was railroaded by military investigators.

From the second paragraph:

Quote
When the unit resisted the order, arguing that it violated U.S. laws prohibiting the use of propaganda against American citizens, it was subjected to a campaign of retaliation.

From the fifth paragraph:

Quote
Federal law forbids the military from practicing psy-ops on Americans, and each defense authorization bill comes with a "propaganda rider" that also prohibits such manipulation.


It didn't leave it out the article - it's the entire fucking premise for the article. You're assuming that becuase it violates legality, that it didn't happen? That's crazy.

Offline ricky

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #63 on: July 04, 2011, 05:38:19 PM »
the fact that you cited the article as a reference compromises the validity of what you're saying. if you read my previous post, i used outside knowledge to challenge the impartial nature of the article. all you did was recite what i believe to be an incorrect article, and use it as evidence against me.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #64 on: July 04, 2011, 08:22:27 PM »
:facepalm

You called the guy a moron for not knowing that it was illegal for PSYOP's to be used on domestic audiences, when that is demonstrably false in every way. This has nothing to do with how impartial the author was, you said he didn't mention something which he not only clearly mentions, but is the entire basis for the article being written. The entire story could be false, PSYOPs were not used on domestic audiences - but the author quite clearly knew that it was illegal for psyops to be used on domestic audiences.

You also only engaged in a weird word game, as if the author, using precise terms you don't agree with (calling someone a soldier who may not be strictly classified as a soldier, according to you), somehow invalidates the general, who is a completely other person, form having any valid information, and think this is somehow enough to make the claim completely ludicrous and therefor false. Does the guy calling the PSYOP's team "soldiers" in anyway mean taht PSYOPS do not exist, that the Pentagon does not employ them? Clearly not, so you're argument is so off base that it's rather amazing.

I'm done. So far you've thrown out nothing but red herrings.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: U.S. cost of war at least $3.7 trillion and counting
« Reply #65 on: July 05, 2011, 10:58:54 AM »
Just reading my foreign policy textbook for my summer Harvard course I know a psychological warfare sector does exist in the military. :P
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