« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: And, it has begun  (Read 21392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2011, 08:18:18 AM »
It would be nice if they put more emphasis on the smaller parties. I mean, they don't even invite anybody but the Dem and Rep candidates to public debates.

rumborak
Logged
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5345
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2011, 08:21:11 AM »
Quote from: PlaysLikeMyung on April 05, 2011, 04:56:50 PM
My focus is on Tim Pawlenty, who apparently is a strong contender.
I don't think he really is, but stranger things have happened. He really didn't get a whole lot done in Minnesota when he was governor there and barely won the elections both times. I'm not sure he'd even carry his home state, which would say alot.
Logged

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2011, 03:54:24 PM »
Good post by Glenn Greenwald on Salon about the issue

https://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/05/democrats/index.html

Quote from: Glenn Greenwald
One thing is for certain: right now, the Democratic Party is absolutely correct in its assessment that kicking its base is good politics. Why is that? Because they know that they have inculcated their base with sufficient levels of fear and hatred of the GOP, so that no matter how often the Party kicks its base, no matter how often Party leaders break their promises and betray their ostensible values, the base will loyally and dutifully support the Party and its leaders (at least in presidential elections; there is a good case that the Democrats got crushed in 2010 in large part because their base was so unenthusiastic).

In light of that fact, ask yourself this:  if you were a Democratic Party official, wouldn't you also ignore -- and, when desirable, step on -- the people who you know will support you no matter what you do to them? That's what a rational, calculating, self-interested, unprincipled Democratic politician should do:  accommodate those factions which need accommodating (because their support is in question), while ignoring or scorning the ones whose support is not in question, either because they will never vote for them (the hard-core right) or will dutifully canvass, raise money, and vote for them no matter what (the Democratic base).  Anyone who pledges unconditional, absolute fealty to a politician -- especially 18 months before an election -- is guaranteeing their own irrelevance.

It was often said that Bush/Cheney used fear as their principal political weapon -- and they did -- but that's true of the Democratic Party as well. When it comes to their base, Democratic leaders know they will command undying, unbreakable support no matter how many times they kick their base, because of the fear that has been instilled in the base -- not fear of Terrorists or Immigrants (that's the GOP's tactic), but fear of Sarah Palin, the Kochs and the Tea Party...

It may be that this fear of Republicans is rational (or, given how many GOP-replicating policies and practices the Democrats embrace, maybe it isn't).  But whatever else is true, one thing is for certain: dedicated partisans who pledge their unbreakable, eternally loyal support for any Party or politician are going to be steadfastly ignored (or worse) by that Party or politician, and rightfully so. If you spend two years vehemently objecting that certain acts so profoundly offend your principles but then pledge unequivocal support no matter what almost two years in advance to the politicians who engage in them, why would you expect your objections to be heeded? Any rational person would ignore them, and stomp on your beliefs whenever doing so benefited them.

The bolded part is why I can't support Obama. I just can't. Even against whatever whacko Republican ends up winning the primary. There is no good option.
Logged

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2011, 05:50:26 PM »
Has the c-word ("compromise") become so evil at this point? He's trying to get stuff done.

rumborak
Logged
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2011, 06:11:34 PM »
It's not just the congressional stuff. Even then though, I think there comes a point where he puts his foot down and goes down fighting. Hell at least he would have tried.
Logged

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2011, 06:21:38 PM »
Quote from: antigoon on April 07, 2011, 06:11:34 PM
It's not just the congressional stuff. Even then though, I think there comes a point where he puts his foot down and goes down fighting. Hell at least he would have tried.
Tried to what?  Do you know what happens when you go down fighting?  You go down.  Wouldn't it be better for no one to go down, and instead solve the problem?
Logged
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 09:19:46 PM
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2011, 06:35:53 PM »
Going down while trying might make for nice Hollywood movies, but when you're running a country martyrdom is rather misplaced. The last one doing that was Hitler, and that didn't go so well for anyone.

rumborak
Logged
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2011, 06:42:56 PM »
Well yeah, obviously he can't do that every time. It's just frustrating when the middle is so right-of-center that the compromise becomes very unsatisfying.
Logged

Offline icysk8r

  • DTF Resident Magician
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 1393
  • Gender: Male
  • www.bedeceived.com
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2011, 12:59:43 AM »
Logged
www.bedeceived.com

ZOMG WHAT'S AT BEDECEIVED.COM?

I DUNNO!  CLICK THE DARNED LINK TO FIND OUT!

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2011, 08:44:01 AM »
Logged

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2011, 09:39:15 AM »
It's gonna be yoooge.
Logged

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2011, 09:59:51 AM »
Idiot is spending time and money investigating whether Obama was born in the US :facepalm:
Logged

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2011, 10:14:23 AM »
Funny. McCain was born in Panama or sumthin.
Logged

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2011, 10:24:36 AM »
Quote from: jsem on April 09, 2011, 10:14:23 AM
Funny. McCain was born in Panama or sumthin.

If you're born to parents of US citizenship you are an American citizen, no matter where you're born, I believe. Obama's trouble came because his father was Kenyan. He was born in Hawaii, which would automatically make him a citizen of the US (those born on US soil are US citizens). The birthers claim that no documents exist to prove this.

This is false. Hawaii has this thing where they won't give out the ACTUAL birth certificate to the media, but the certificate still exists. Or something like that
Logged

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2011, 10:35:16 AM »
I think McCain was born on a US military base though, which would make him a natural US citizen.
Logged
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2011, 10:41:44 AM »
Quote from: PlaysLikeMyung on April 09, 2011, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: jsem on April 09, 2011, 10:14:23 AM
Funny. McCain was born in Panama or sumthin.

If you're born to parents of US citizenship you are an American citizen, no matter where you're born, I believe. Obama's trouble came because his father was Kenyan. He was born in Hawaii, which would automatically make him a citizen of the US (those born on US soil are US citizens). The birthers claim that no documents exist to prove this.

This is false. Hawaii has this thing where they won't give out the ACTUAL birth certificate to the media, but the certificate still exists. Or something like that
Yeah I knew all of this. But I still thought it was funny when I found out that McCain was born in Panama.
Logged

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2011, 11:05:03 AM »
The birther shit is still going on? Come on now...
Logged

Offline j

  • Posts: 2794
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2011, 11:17:22 AM »
Quote from: antigoon on April 09, 2011, 09:39:15 AM
It's gonna be yoooge.

 :rollin

Quote from: PlaysLikeMyung on April 09, 2011, 10:24:36 AM
If you're born to parents of US citizenship you are an American citizen, no matter where you're born, I believe.

Interesting, I don't think I knew that.

But yeah the birth certificate garbage has been long since debunked I think.  Disappointing that Trump is harping on it and bringing it back.

Part of me does wonder why Obama wouldn't just come out and show it, just to shut everybody up.

-J
Logged

Online Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25330
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM »
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.
Logged

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30743
  • Bad Craziness
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2011, 02:26:20 PM »
Quote from: Chino on April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.

This will probably be the only time y'all ever see me type these words,  but the American people are smarter than that. 
Logged
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Sigz

  • BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13537
  • Gender: Male
  • THRONES FOR THE THRONE SKULL
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2011, 04:15:18 PM »
Quote from: GuineaPig on April 09, 2011, 10:35:16 AM
I think McCain was born on a US military base though, which would make him a natural US citizen.


Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Born_Citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution#Legislation_and_executive_branch_policy
"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."[30]
Logged
Quote
The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2011, 06:19:34 PM »
Quote from: Perpetual Change on April 09, 2011, 11:05:03 AM
The birther shit is still going on? Come on now...

They got nothing else, so they stocks to it. And tard Trump actually chips in.

rumborak
Logged
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2011, 11:58:23 PM »
Quote from: El Barto on April 09, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Chino on April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.

This will probably be the only time y'all ever see me type these words,  but the American people are smarter than that. 

Sig'd. :lol
Logged
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline Dublagent66

  • Devouring consciousness...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9695
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Digesting power
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2011, 08:23:21 AM »
Quote from: El Barto on April 09, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Chino on April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.

This will probably be the only time y'all ever see me type these words,  but the American people are smarter than that. 

They elected Obama, didn't they?  How could it get any worse?
Logged
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
"There's not a pill you can take.  There's not a class you can go to.  Stupid is foreva."  -Ron White

Offline chknptpie

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3759
  • Gender: Female
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2011, 09:01:22 AM »
Quote from: Dublagent66 on April 13, 2011, 08:23:21 AM
Quote from: El Barto on April 09, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Chino on April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.

This will probably be the only time y'all ever see me type these words,  but the American people are smarter than that. 

They elected Obama, didn't they?  How could it get any worse?

Have you seen the middle east lately? It could be much worse lol
Logged

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2011, 10:03:55 AM »
Quote from: Dublagent66 on April 13, 2011, 08:23:21 AM
Quote from: El Barto on April 09, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Chino on April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.

This will probably be the only time y'all ever see me type these words,  but the American people are smarter than that. 

They elected Obama, didn't they?  How could it get any worse?

Oh please. That was hardly the worst decision America could have made
Logged

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2011, 10:32:52 AM »
Quote from: Dublagent66 on April 13, 2011, 08:23:21 AM
Quote from: El Barto on April 09, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Chino on April 09, 2011, 02:16:06 PM
If Donald Trump ran as president with Oprah as his VP, I'd bet they win.

This will probably be the only time y'all ever see me type these words,  but the American people are smarter than that. 

They elected Obama, didn't they?  How could it get any worse?

McCain/Palin?

Seriously, I get chills down my spine and feel a gaping, sickening pit form in my stomach every time I remember that Sarah Palin was actually a heartbeat away from becoming the president of this country. As a nation we've done a lot of stupid things. But never, until the 2008 election, had we done something as insulting to our own intelligence as we came close to doing then.
Logged

Offline XJDenton

  • What a shame
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7630
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2011, 10:48:19 AM »
McCain would have been an alright president. Not my cup of tea certainly but he was one of the better republicans to go for the office. Palin on the other hand should be banned from coming within 20 miles of the oval office.
Logged
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Offline EPICVIEW

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3307
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2011, 10:58:52 AM »
 :omg:

Ive met Donald Trump a few times, actually saw him the other night. Id vote for him .. no problem at all.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 11:10:41 AM by EPICVIEW »
Logged
"its so relieving to know that your leaving as soon as you get paid, Its so relaxing to know that your asking now that you got your way"

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2011, 11:31:43 AM »
Really? I mean, he's a successful guy who knows how to handle money (or so it would appear, anyway), but I don't think he'd be right in the White House

He strikes me as a kind of Ross Perot. Except not nearly as crazy
Logged

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30743
  • Bad Craziness
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2011, 11:35:19 AM »
The fact that he's an outsider is certainly appealing.  The downside is that he seems to be too much of a cowboy, and continuing with this whole birther nonsense makes him look like a whack-job. 
Logged
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5345
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2011, 12:05:02 PM »
Quote from: El Barto on April 13, 2011, 11:35:19 AM
The fact that he's an outsider is certainly appealing.  The downside is that he seems to be too much of a cowboy, and continuing with this whole birther nonsense makes him look like a whack-job. 
Yep. If he wasn't a birther, I'd at least consider him.
Logged

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2011, 12:08:46 PM »
Everyone brings up the fact that Trump is a (somewhat) successful businessman.  But nobody mentions that most U.S. Senators outperform him on the stock market  :P
Logged
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Offline j

  • Posts: 2794
  • Gender: Male
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2011, 12:12:32 PM »
I think he is a whack job.  I mean there's something sort of likable about him, and I admire his "moxie" and disparaging of the current GOP, but I wouldn't vote for him.  And he's way too polarizing to ever be elected anyway.

Not only that, but I'm not sure about his business success.  He's not one of those entrepreneurs who started at the bottom and built himself a fiscal empire from the ground up.  He started with a lot, and now he owns some casinos and shit.  Also I'm pretty sure he's had several exploits that ended up in bankruptcy.  I mean there's no question that he's a relatively savvy businessman, but I hardly think it elevates him to tycoon status as some seem to think, or that there's any chance of it translating to effective fiscal/monetary policy in office.

-J
Logged

Offline PraXis

  • Posts: 492
Re: And, it has begun
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2011, 12:37:43 PM »
Quote from: PlaysLikeMyung on April 13, 2011, 11:31:43 AM
Really? I mean, he's a successful guy who knows how to handle money (or so it would appear, anyway), but I don't think he'd be right in the White House

He strikes me as a kind of Ross Perot. Except not nearly as crazy

But Perot ended up being 100% correct.... I'd take a successful businessman over a community organizer any day... he's got no business experience whatsoever, and we see the results.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6   Go Up
« previous next »