And, it has begun

[PlaysLikeMyung]

here, I'll bold it for you:

All we know is how bad it is now and it's never been worse.  Period.

This just isn't true

Well, not unless you count the great depression and that was caused by a stock market crash that spread across the world and lasted over a decade.  Stick around.  It will get a lot worse before it gets better and the current administration is only making it worse.  The recession of the mid 70's was nothing compared to what's coming.

So, I'm gonna ask you how you know what's coming.

Because I can't see the future and neither can you. And to say things are going to be that much worse is a little presumptuous. Never mind the small economic progress we HAVE had in the past two years. Things are evidently gonna be SO MUCH WORSE than in the past

[El Barto]

Of course the President doesn't have ALL the power or should take all the blame, but he should have the power of leadership.  Obama doesn't lead, he listens to advise and signs whatever he agrees with.  He also tries to please everyone, and in the real world that's impossible.  A real leader has the knowledge and determination to do what's right and doesn't care what his critics think nor is influenced by party members that have their own agendas.

You've made a few statements here, like this one, that are absolutely correct, and yet light years removed from anything having to do with American politics.  If you want somebody to do what's right, opinions be damned, then start rewriting the Constitution to allow for a King.  Hell,  I'd back you up on it, but I doubt you'll get very far.  In the mean time, you're going to have to deal with people who do exactly what Obama's done, and Dumbass before him, and all of the other guys going back 220 years. 

[EPICVIEW]

I dont agree..

we have never had such a horrible incompetent 'jr Senator" who has no resume, and with the most radical associations as Obama...Im sorry,, that true..

Obama is destroying the USA from within..like Steve Forbes said " this President either by ignorance or agenda has  made 100% wrong decisions on every decision" its uncanny how horrible Obama is on every single facet..oil spills, dealing with the mid east, dissing our allies, healthcare..how to conduct the ettiquete of the office, no off shore drilling, Emelt, Rezko, Holder, Gitmo, 65 rounds of golf, taxes, Biden falling asleep? ......Im runnning out of pixels

and look he set the record..in two years he is by far the worst President ever... Carter is off the hook..and dont forget Obama had all the houses.. and GWB had to deal with Pelosi for the last two years of his term, notice the timing, and GWB had tgo put up with total hostile media (Mapes and Rather phoney up fake docs of GWB's time in the National Gurard??, ummm did Obama serve at all?), Obama is fawned over...i throw up in my mouth by how kid gloved this "Obama?"is treated by the media..of course he wont go on FOX, oh the horror of a tough question...

Im sorry... But Obama is in whole other league.. I do not feel he loves the USA and everything points that he may not.. I love watching Obama supporters who cant point to one fact or anything to back up their proping up of this debacle his suppoerters call "Change??".... and for the record, History will tell us the future, hence why Id vote for Gingrich

[rumborak]

EPIC, I actually find your (and many others') attitude to politics far more damaging than anything Obama has ever done. Anything you write is extreme polemics and an "we need to destroy the other side" attitude that polarizes the political side so much that we end up in situations like recently, where politicians feel the only way to serve their votership is to have the other side run against a brick wall.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

EPIC, I actually find your (and many others') attitude to politics far more damaging than anything Obama has ever done. Anything you write is extreme polemics and an "we need to destroy the other side" attitude that polarizes the political side so much that we end up in situations like recently, where politicians feel the only way to serve their votership is to have the other side run against a brick wall.

rumborak

thats just not true.. my "view/opinion" did not make the S & P downgrade the USA today.. we also are watching the dollar slip and may lose it that the worlds reserve...

I dont see this outcry when "kickin GWB is the subject" that seems to be fine around here, or mocking Palin..etc..

[Quadrochosis]

I dont agree..

we have never had such a horrible incompetent 'jr Senator" who has no resume, and with the most radical associations as Obama...Im sorry,, that true..

Obama is destroying the USA from within..like Steve Forbes said " this President either by ignorance or agenda has  made 100% wrong decisions on every decision" its uncanny how horrible Obama is on every single facet..oil spills, dealing with the mid east, dissing our allies, healthcare..how to conduct the ettiquete of the office, no off shore drilling, Emelt, Rezko, Holder, Gitmo, 65 rounds of golf, taxes, Biden falling asleep? ......Im runnning out of pixels

and look he set the record..in two years he is by far the worst President ever... Carter is off the hook..and dont forget Obama had all the houses.. and GWB had to deal with Pelosi for the last two years of his term, notice the timing, and GWB had tgo put up with total hostile media (Mapes and Rather phoney up fake docs of GWB's time in the National Gurard??, ummm did Obama serve at all?), Obama is fawned over...i throw up in my mouth by how kid gloved this "Obama?" treated by the media..of course he wont go on FOX, oh the horror of a tough question...

Im sorry... But Obama is in whole other league.. I do not feel he loves the USA and everything points that he may not.. I love watching Obama supporters who cant point to one fact or anything to back up their proping up of this debacle his suppoerters call "Change??".... and for the record, History will tell us the future, hence why Id vote for Gingrich

[El Barto]

I dont agree..

we have never had such a horrible incompetent 'jr Senator" who has no resume, and with the most radical associations as Obama...Im sorry,, that true..

Obama is destroying the USA from within..like Steve Forbes said " this President either by ignorance or agenda has  made 100% wrong decisions on every decision" its uncanny how horrible Obama is on every single facet..oil spills, dealing with the mid east, dissing our allies, healthcare..how to conduct the ettiquete of the office, no off shore drilling, Emelt, Rezko, Holder, Gitmo, 65 rounds of golf, taxes, Biden falling asleep? ......Im runnning out of pixels

and look he set the record..in two years he is by far the worst President ever... Carter is off the hook..and dont forget Obama had all the houses.. and GWB had to deal with Pelosi for the last two years of his term, notice the timing, and GWB had tgo put up with total hostile media (Mapes and Rather phoney up fake docs of GWB's time in the National Gurard??, ummm did Obama serve at all?), Obama is fawned over...i throw up in my mouth by how kid gloved this "Obama?" treated by the media..of course he wont go on FOX, oh the horror of a tough question...

Im sorry... But Obama is in whole other league.. I do not feel he loves the USA and everything points that he may not.. I love watching Obama supporters who cant point to one fact or anything to back up their proping up of this debacle his suppoerters call "Change??".... and for the record, History will tell us the future, hence why Id vote for Gingrich

A couple of quick thoughts before I get back to work. 

• GWB's resume was a resounding string of failure that would have prevented him from getting a job managing a Subway franchise. 
• If memory serves, GWB had a friendly house when he took over, and lost it
• The dollar's been crashing for quite some time.  If it's lost as the reserve currency,  he'll get blamed but only for being at the wheel when it happens.
  
• The media was pretty kind to Bush before he fell asleep at the wheel.  Remember that "Bush makes perfect carrier landing!" photo?
  

And honestly, most people here aren't too crazy about Obama anyway.  Where you make a mistake is presuming that people are swooning over the guy just because they're not ready to pronounce him the worst leader in 3000 years.  You also don't serve your own cause too well by trying to hold up Bush as a better example.  Praxis here is pretty quick to rag on Obama, but at least he's equally appauled by the miserable failure that Bush was.  A little bjectivity goes a long way.

[EPICVIEW]

GWB was the Govenor of TX? correct? ( executive experience)

served his country ...correct?

was an owner., exec of the Texas Rangers

I had , have no doubt of his love for this country, nor did I for Dick Cheney ( another person who I have no doubt loves the USA)

led us after 9/11...started Homeland Security, broke up the banking nexis that funded the terror. ( unlike Holder who just troday let CAIR go, and Peter King is fighting him TODAY on this)

Kept the unemployment rate after 9/11 at 5.5 to 6



sorry,..,...I am me...I am not comfortable w Obama, AT ALL

[Quadrochosis]

was an owner., exec of the Texas Rangers

A necessity for any Presidential Candidate.

[EPICVIEW]

was an owner., exec of the Texas Rangers

A necessity for any Presidential Candidate.

shows he had a business background...ran something. he also threw a strike at Yankee Stadium( you see Obama throw a baseball? youtube that!!! LOL..)
what has Obama run?  and his time at Acorn does not count ..LOL

[Quadrochosis]

what has Obama run?

He's ran the Executive Office for two years.

[El Barto]

Texas has a very weak governor.  Lt. Gov. has all the juice.  And frankly, other than mocking death row inmates, I can't think of a single thing he did or stood for.

He was the face of the Texas Rangers.  He had nothing to do with their operation.  Tom Hicks was the actual owner.  This is actually a good thing since when other people handed him cushy jobs, he promptly sank the boat.

He served the country by occasionally showing up to fly a F-105 (I think).  By all accounts he was a very good pilot, but that was during his partying days so he didn't fly much.  And if he had, his primary role would have been to defend us from Mexico. 

Let 9/11 happen.  Started Homeland Security.  I don't know which is worse.

And again, quite a few of us aren't comfortable with Obama.  I think he's been a pretty bad president, thus far.  The difference is that I don't think any person could do much better right now and within this system,  and I certainly don't think a simple-minded hick with a significant personality disorder is an improvement.   

[King Postwhore]

El Barto.  While I agree with everything you just posted, Clinton had full knowledge of Bin Laden and dropped the ball too so I blame all government in that case.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

was an owner., exec of the Texas Rangers

A necessity for any Presidential Candidate.

shows he had a business background...ran something. he also threw a strike at Yankee Stadium( you see Obama throw a baseball? youtube that!!! LOL..)
what has Obama run?  and his time at Acorn does not count ..LOL

I don't know how 'running' a baseball team (and i say that loosely because I doubt they really do anything) has much to do with running a country...

[El Barto]

El Barto.  While I agree with everything you just posted, Clinton had full knowledge of Bin Laden and dropped the ball too so I blame all government in that case.

Clinton's mistake was not having the cojones to flambé a playground that was near a potential Bin Ladin camp.  Can you imagine the flack he would have caught if he had done that and Bin Ladin wasn't there?  Hell, at that point, nobody outside of his administration even believed he was a problem.  The occasions he did act, they ridiculed him over it.

Plus, I don't think that BL had actually been charged with a crime at that point.  Extrajudicial barbecuing didn't really become fashionable until Bush took office.

Still, there was plenty of evidence that 9/11 was coming down the pike, due entirely to efforts that occurred during the Clinton administration, and Chimpy couldn't have been less interested. 

[rumborak]

i think one also always has to keep in mind that Obama had 2 wars and an economy in shambles to deal with, all of which were not his doing, but a Republican's. It was Bush who could have (and should have) pulled the reigns on the spending, because he had much more leeway. Instead he started 2 wars.
If anything, only now comes the time where you can really judge Obama on his presidency. Before that he had to deal with the mess of his predecessor.

rumborak

[Dublagent66]

here, I'll bold it for you:

All we know is how bad it is now and it's never been worse.  Period.

This just isn't true

Well, not unless you count the great depression and that was caused by a stock market crash that spread across the world and lasted over a decade.  Stick around.  It will get a lot worse before it gets better and the current administration is only making it worse.  The recession of the mid 70's was nothing compared to what's coming.

So, I'm gonna ask you how you know what's coming.

Take a look around you.  We're already in a recession.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this country is in deep, deep trouble.  Gas prices are skyrocketing.  The housing market is shit and has been for 4 or 5 years now.  Homes foreclosing all over the place.  Inflation and the national debt are at an all time high.  It's happened before and it's happening again on a larger scale.  I'm not using a crystal ball, but a magic wand would sure come in handy.

[chknptpie]

  More people are getting jobs now than in the past 2 years, the housing market is leveling out, gas prices continue to be WAY less than anyone pays in Europe... We are on a rebound here, the bottom is not dropping out.

[bosk1]

Wait, what?  I'm been biting my tongue about the actual political issues being discussed, but I think you are mistaken on your facts.

-Jobs:  The employment rate is still abysmal.  It was even worse two years ago, so comparing it to two years ago misses the point.  It is still far too low and is far from leveling.

-Housing:  Housing prices everywhere in the country continue to fall.  There have been short leveling-off periods in a lot of markets, but those have continued to be followed by more declines.  The housing market is not anywhere near leveling out.  If you bought a house at the peak, national averages say your house is probably worth around 40% of what you paid for it.  Think about that:  40%.  Even if you bought a few years before or after the peak, you probably took a huge hit.  For example, mid-2004 values compared to present:  58%.  So let's say you bought for $400,000.  Your home that you still have to pay a $400,000 mortgage on is only worth $232,000.  You've lost $158,000 of your home's value just by living there.  There is no leveling off in this area.

-Gas:  We may pay less than Europe, but that isn't really the issue.  Prices are higher here than they've been, which impacts our standard of living.  And they continue to rise, which is not a good thing.

I'm not sure how you see "rebounding" in any of this.

[El Barto]

To be fair, gas prices rise and fall constantly, often due to matters beyond our control.  If you want to blame somebody,  blame Ghadaffi and the Earth's axis relative to the ecliptic plane. 

As for the housing deal, I'm honestly not too sympathetic.  A house shouldn't be an investment.  I wouldn't spend 50k on a car that'll be worth 38k the day I sign the papers, and I wouldn't spend 400k on a house hoping that it'll hold it's value over the 30 years I tote the note.

[bosk1]

I'm not necessarily implying fault on anyone's part regarding either gas prices or home values.  Just saying that to argue we are leveling off and on the rebound is not correct by any stretch.

[rumborak]

Yeah, I would have to agree, I find it hard to mount too much sympathy with the housing market. Right now the continuing fall of house prices is due to the delayed foreclosures of people who gambled on an exceedingly unlikely scenario.

rumborak

[PraXis]

Gas prices are rising for two reasons: falling dollar and speculators.

The last time gas hit $4/gal, a barrel of oil was $180-200... oil hit around  $107 today... and gas is at $4/gal... HI INFLATION!

Food prices have been rising steadily the past couple years... they gotta stop printing all this fucking money! All the printing and stimulus is like putting a small band aid on a large, hemorrhaging wound. The S&P just gave our rating another whack.

As for the housing market, it NEEDS to keep going down. Interest rates are still being held artificially low. They should be at least 10-15% right now so people who save can be rewarded for doing so. The age of easy credit is over. On the plus side, I'm saving, and as the housing market continues to collapse, I will buy a house on the cheap because I've been saving as much as I can. Instead of trying to do the whole 20% down, 30 year mortgage, I might be able to buy in cash or 80% on a much shorter term loan. I'm always looking at foreclosed properties, but haven't found "the one" yet.

[Perpetual Change]

Dick Cheney ( another person who I have no doubt loves the USA)

That must be a real special kind of love I haven't heard of before.

[emindead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX1R0S0v3-M

Ron Paul WILL run for 2012!!! He will be on the Colbert Report tonight.

[antigoon]

You know, even though I disagree with the vast majority of his libertarian views I think a Paul presidency would be interesting. How could it be any worse than what we've had for the last 10 plus years?

[EPICVIEW]

You know, even though I disagree with the vast majority of his libertarian views I think a Paul presidency would be interesting. How could it be any worse than what we've had for the last 10 plus years?

anybody but Obama...Im all for a Sigz/antigoon ticket even!!

[El Barto]

I'm guessing he goes nowhere.  Honestly, he's too scary for either side.  Shame, though.  As I've said many times, his strict adherence to doctrine is super-annoying, but at least he's a real person and not some bogus politician. 

[antigoon]

I'm guessing he goes nowhere.  Honestly, he's too scary for either side.  Shame, though.  As I've said many times, his strict adherence to doctrine is super-annoying, but at least he's a real person and not some bogus politician. 

Yeah, the very last part.

[rumborak]

Yeah, that was always his biggest asset, that he seemed genuine. But, his views often cross the loony line. Also, the guy has publicly uttered so many harakiri lines that it would Democrats 10 minutes to shred the guy to pieces.

rumborak

[antigoon]

Very true, Rumby. I'm curious to see if he does any better among Republican voters this time.

[MetalMike06]

As much as I wish Paul success, I don't have much optimism. Even though he seems to have much more exposure/popularity than he did in '08, I still think the vast majority of republican voters will just go for the slick, Romney/Boehner-esque politician, 'cause that's who Fox tells them to vote for.

[Perpetual Change]

Ron's got a better shot this year, though. No other serious contenders.

But on another note, he seems to have aged quite a bit in the last 2 years.

[El Barto]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out with teabaggers.  If they are what they actually claim to be, then they should be creaming themselves right now.  If they're just the re-branding of the GOP, my assumption all along,  then they'll be looking for reasons to get away from him.  Factor in comments he's made critical to their "grassroots" nature and you should get a damned amusing hodgepodge of convoluted thinking. 

I suppose one possibility is that he fractures the TP the way they've fractured the GOP. 

[EPICVIEW]

Umless Obama gets amnesty approved..he will be gone...thankfully. like Carter a bad dream.

misery index dont lie