Author Topic: If a band you liked had Nazi sympathies... (Read 17525 times)

LieLowTheWantedMan · « **on:** March 30, 2011, 03:44:36 PM »

Alright, so some of you might know Magma is my second favourite band. Well there has been a lot of controversy in their history that Christian Vander is rumoured to be pro-Nazi. Daevid Allen (singer of one of my other favourite bands, Gong) even accused him of having a room full of swastikas and Hitler pictures when he was a child. Of course, Allen is pretty fucked up, so who knows. There have been other accusations too (swastika in the cover of their debut).

He has also been accused of calling black people primates who will be wiped off the earth. This was a rumour though, and I highly doubt it is true (he often visits John Coltrane's grave to pay his respects). He has also been involved with plenty.

The Nazi thing is also unlikely. As his wife is Jewish, and their manager at first was Jewish. But this is still thought provoking, as many of their songs have things that sound like Hitler speeches, and their language is very German influenced. And some people came up with good arguments, and this paired with the thing about his room having swastikas and the cover of their debut having a swastika, it's pretty mind-boggling. Also, Christian Vander is batshit crazy, so who knows.

Now, onto the topic. The fact is, even if Vander was a Nazi, I'd still listen to his music without any problems. But I have seen some people saying that they are no longer listening to Magma over this. I just care about the music itself. Now if a band you really like was proven to have Nazi thoughts, would you still listen to them? As I said earlier, I would.

Also, please note that their music is not Nazi-ish. Just their thoughts, it doesn't have to do with their music.

nightmare_cinema · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2011, 03:48:37 PM »

I don't have a moral issue with still listening to them but I'd probably find it hard to stomach to be totally honest. When you listen to music that touches your soul (cliche way of putting it but you know, stuff that gives you the chills, you listen to every day, you rave about to your friends) it's like a really special one way connection between you and the person who made the music, like you really 'get' what they're trying to express emotionally at that moment. I would feel a bit annoyed in the least if I got into a song so much it hit my favourites list and I realised that the person writing it had those kind of principles. I can't explain it logically but that'd probably be the case.

ReaperKK · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2011, 03:50:15 PM »

If I liked the music and the lyrical content wasn't something that I disagreed with then I'd listen to them.

Sigz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2011, 03:50:52 PM »

I wouldn't care. Even if the guy hates jews, he's still making great music, and his beliefs don't necessarily negate the messages he's conveying with his music.

Hell, even if his lyrics were insanely anti-semitic I probably wouldn't care, as long as I didn't find them distracting.

ReaperKK · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2011, 03:51:55 PM »

Quote from: nightmare_cinema on March 30, 2011, 03:48:37 PM

I don't have a moral issue with still listening to them but I'd probably find it hard to stomach to be totally honest. When you listen to music that touches your soul (cliche way of putting it but you know, stuff that gives you the chills, you listen to every day, you rave about to your friends) it's like a really special one way connection between you and the person who made the music, like you really 'get' what they're trying to express emotionally at that moment. I would feel a bit annoyed in the least if I got into a song so much it hit my favourites list and I realised that the person writing it had those kind of principles. I can't explain it logically but that'd probably be the case.

You raise a good point, I mean I think if Gavin from dredg (my fav band) was a Nazi sympathizer than I'd be put off to say the least, especially since the band would then be tainted in my head whenever I heard them.

Damn, I don't know anymore.

wolfking · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2011, 03:52:02 PM »

I guess if the music and lyrical content is neutral, I wouldn't have a problem at all. If there are traces of propaganda in the lyrics and message in the songs, then I might think twice.

sonatafanica · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2011, 03:52:18 PM »

I personally am trying to switch over to strictly antisemitic music

Bombardana · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:02:38 PM »

Probably the only anti semitic song I know is: (NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUc9zdPaNKw

It doesn't matter to me whether the band is sincere or joking; a lot of Death Metal and Grindcore bands intend to have the most outrageous lyrics possible. If the band is seriously like "Heil Hitler blah blah blah" in their politics and views then basically I think they're a bunch of idiots but I probably would enjoy the music all the same.

ClairvoyantCat · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:04:17 PM »

I wouldn't give a shit.

Really, as opposed to nightmare_cinema, I think the person on the other end of the music really doesn't matter at all often, at least not nearly as much as what the listener makes of it. The listener is allowed to take what he wants from it. At least that's how I feel.

DarkEternalNight · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:05:58 PM »

Wouldn't affect my opinion at all.

nightmare_cinema · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:12:10 PM »

Quote from: ReaperKK on March 30, 2011, 03:51:55 PM

Quote from: nightmare_cinema on March 30, 2011, 03:48:37 PM
I don't have a moral issue with still listening to them but I'd probably find it hard to stomach to be totally honest. When you listen to music that touches your soul (cliche way of putting it but you know, stuff that gives you the chills, you listen to every day, you rave about to your friends) it's like a really special one way connection between you and the person who made the music, like you really 'get' what they're trying to express emotionally at that moment. I would feel a bit annoyed in the least if I got into a song so much it hit my favourites list and I realised that the person writing it had those kind of principles. I can't explain it logically but that'd probably be the case.

You raise a good point, I mean I think if Gavin from dredg (my fav band) was a Nazi sympathizer than I'd be put off to say the least, especially since the band would then be tainted in my head whenever I heard them.

Damn, I don't know anymore.

Indeed. If I found out Steven Wilson was a Nazi sympathiser I'd be seriously and instantly at least slightly put off a lot of my favourite music (PT, Blackfield, his solo work etc.). I think it'd be like meeting the person and them being a total dick to you, it'd just taint it. I know nothing about him in reality, but when I'm immersed emotionally in something that has come straight from his deepest feelings and thoughts, I'd just be thinking about his distasteful views.

LieLowTheWantedMan · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:13:13 PM »

Quote from: nightmare_cinema on March 30, 2011, 04:12:10 PM

Quote from: ReaperKK on March 30, 2011, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: nightmare_cinema on March 30, 2011, 03:48:37 PM
I don't have a moral issue with still listening to them but I'd probably find it hard to stomach to be totally honest. When you listen to music that touches your soul (cliche way of putting it but you know, stuff that gives you the chills, you listen to every day, you rave about to your friends) it's like a really special one way connection between you and the person who made the music, like you really 'get' what they're trying to express emotionally at that moment. I would feel a bit annoyed in the least if I got into a song so much it hit my favourites list and I realised that the person writing it had those kind of principles. I can't explain it logically but that'd probably be the case.

You raise a good point, I mean I think if Gavin from dredg (my fav band) was a Nazi sympathizer than I'd be put off to say the least, especially since the band would then be tainted in my head whenever I heard them.

Damn, I don't know anymore.

Indeed. If I found out Steven Wilson was a Nazi sympathiser I'd be seriously and instantly at least slightly put off a lot of my favourite music (PT, Blackfield, his solo work etc.). I think it'd be like meeting the person and them being a total dick to you, it'd just taint it. I know nothing about him in reality, but when I'm immersed emotionally in something that has come straight from his deepest feelings and thoughts, I'd just be thinking about his distasteful views.

I understand how you feel really. It does bother me to think about it a little, but in the end I'd probably still listen to Magma even if it were true.

nightmare_cinema · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:17:16 PM »

I'd probably still listen too, I could handle a peripheral band like that, someone I listened to every few weeks for a bit or whatever... but there is music I like, and music I completely fucking adore and listen to regularly and put on and lay in a dark room just to get into it and talk to everyone about it and spend ages thinking about it even when it's not on and eventually sit and isolate the different instruments in my head and then tell my dad I want it played at my funeral... you get the picture. I couldn't reach that level of intense feelings for music if the creator was a Nazi, but I wouldn't blame someone who did.

Iarwain · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:23:22 PM »

It wouldn't bother me.

I like Burzum and I don't care about Varg being racist/nazi/whatever.

LieLowTheWantedMan · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:24:23 PM »

There are some funny accusations on Magma though. Some people think because their logo is spikey it ties to them being Nazi.

Their logo is my avvy by the way.

Zook · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:39:08 PM »

Voted: Only if they were one of my favourites.

Because, well.... I like John Greely's vocals...

You said band though, so the band wouldn't be a favorite if they were a bunch of neo nazis...

Can I change my vote?

Sir GuitarCozmo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2011, 05:17:28 PM »

I do nazi how it would make any difference to me.

glaurung · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2011, 06:52:59 PM »

I guess it depends on how in your face their being about it. It's the same thing as a lot of the worship music out there. Because it's not really my thing the really up front stuff can be distracting. Then there are things like Transatlantic or Spock's Beard that have a message in the music but are subtle about it.

The King in Crimson · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2011, 07:04:01 PM »

Depends.

If the band were a bunch of neo-nazi's, but their music was politically and ideologically neutral, then I might listen to them, but I certainly wouldn't support the band in any way ie buy any of their music or merchandise, even if they had somehow become a favorite of mine.

OTOH, if their lyrics reflected their beliefs, well, it really depends on the beliefs. A Christian or religious band that is subtle about inserting its beliefs, I wouldn't mind, but a band that spends every song sining about how awesome Jesus is and how sweet his ride is, well, I probably wouldn't listen to that. A racist band that sings about their beliefs I would just avoid.

antigoon · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2011, 07:08:53 PM »

I would like them more.

Ravenheart · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2011, 07:09:30 PM »

I think I could separate their beliefs from my enjoyment of the music, but it would probably alter my perspective every time I listen to my hypothetical favorite band of Nazis.

BanksD · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2011, 07:59:24 PM »

I wouldn't stop listening to them, but it'd be something hard for me not to think about when I do listen.

Jirpo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2011, 08:00:56 PM »

I wouldn't really care, though it would seem a bit wierd.

73109 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2011, 08:27:56 PM »

Quote from: glaurung on March 30, 2011, 06:52:59 PM

I guess it depends on how in your face their being about it. It's the same thing as a lot of the worship music out there. Because it's not really my thing the really up front stuff can be distracting. Then there are things like Transatlantic or Spock's Beard that have a message in the music but are subtle about it.

Pretty much this.

emindead · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2011, 09:14:41 PM »

Meh, thanks to the Nazis we now have Adidas, Porsche, the most famous car in the world: the Beetle VW... I would still listen to them.

Zantera · « **Reply #25 on:** March 31, 2011, 01:25:33 AM »

Don't think I would care.
However, if I some day end up in a situation like this, I might say differently.

? · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2011, 02:24:40 AM »

Former Amorphis singer Pasi Koskinen is a neo-Nazi, but I still listen to the old Amorphis albums with him on vocals. I don't care about people's ideologies, music is the main thing. Also, I don't think he had that ideology while he was in the band (he left in '04).

Quadrochosis · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:01:17 AM »

Quote from: Sigz on March 30, 2011, 03:50:52 PM

I wouldn't care. Even if the guy hates jews, he's still making great music, and his beliefs don't necessarily negate the messages he's conveying with his music.

Hell, even if his lyrics were insanely anti-semitic I probably wouldn't care, as long as I didn't find them distracting.

This.

wkiml · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2011, 07:45:50 AM »

As long as he keeps his beliefs out of the music, I have no problem with it. This goes with anything that could be interpeted as "non-PC"

jsem · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2011, 08:00:53 AM »

I wouldn't care. Wagner was anti-semitic, doesn't make his music bad.

YtseBitsySpider · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:14:16 AM »

I think I would care.
And I'd stop listening to them.

jsem · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:17:58 AM »

Ok, is there any1 here that would choose not to listen to a band just cuz they support Che Guevara?

I'm directing this to those that would stop listening due to nazism, I'm sensing there might be a tad of hypocrisy up in this

YtseBitsySpider · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:38:24 AM »

Not really sure who Che was or what he stood for, I see people wearing his face on shirts....I'm not sure many of them know either.

But.
I know what the Nazi's stood for.
The question was asked.
I answered.
No hypocrisy here as I understand what hypocrisy is.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:41:32 AM »

I'm guessing that I wouldn't listen to it because if that hatred is spewed it fit's that type of music(full on metal with lyrics I can't understand) I'm not into.

jsem · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:58:51 AM »

Or Stalin for that matter. Or any communist leader.

News: Paralyzed official video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7m7l8iqGAk

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Would you still listen to them?

Author Topic: If a band you liked had Nazi sympathies... (Read 17525 times)