Author Topic: The Tao (Read 3359 times)

AndyDT · « **on:** March 18, 2011, 02:29:59 AM »

I've been going over the Tao te ching again and again. This caught my eye recently from verse 29:

Quote

Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it?
I do not believe it can be done.

The universe is sacred.
You cannot improve it.
If you try to change it, you will ruin it.
If you try to hold it, you will lose it.
So sometimes things are ahead and sometimes they are behind;
Sometimes breathing is hard, sometimes it comes easily;
Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;
Sometimes one is up and sometimes down.

Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency.

Sounds familiar?

Quote

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboreth?

from Ecclesiastes in the Bible.

ack44 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 18, 2011, 04:23:48 AM »

Taoism seems to counter the rigidness of Confucianism, and in a similar way the Ecclesiast (?) seems to counter the strictness and absoluteness of the Hebrew law codes. In the West/Middle East, relativistic teachings (like Buddhism or Taoism) never really developed into popular movements like they did in the East, but clearly there were those occasional revelations like in Ecclesiastes.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 18, 2011, 04:26:47 AM »

Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite books of the Bible.

Andy, you come at this religion thing from a different direction than I do, but I think we are approaching the same thing.

Super Dude · « **Reply #3 on:** March 18, 2011, 09:38:08 AM »

Quote from: AndyDT on March 18, 2011, 02:29:59 AM

I've been going over the Tao te ching again and again. This caught my eye recently from verse 29:

Quote
Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it?
I do not believe it can be done.

The universe is sacred.
You cannot improve it.
If you try to change it, you will ruin it.
If you try to hold it, you will lose it.
So sometimes things are ahead and sometimes they are behind;
Sometimes breathing is hard, sometimes it comes easily;
Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;
Sometimes one is up and sometimes down.

Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency.

Sounds familiar?

Quote
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
   a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
   a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
   a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
   a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
   a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
   a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
   a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
   What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboreth?

from Ecclesiastes in the Bible.

Sounds like that one song by the Byrds.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2011, 09:40:52 AM »

That song by the Byrds was based on Ecclesiastes.

Super Dude · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2011, 09:41:36 AM »

I know it was a joke.

bosk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2011, 09:58:08 AM »

Quote from: AndyDT on March 18, 2011, 02:29:59 AM

Sounds familiar?

Maybe a bit, superficially. But that doesn't surprise me. A lot of religions throughout the ages have borrowed from God.

ack44 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2011, 10:25:33 AM »

And I guess God "borrowed" from the Egyptians when he told the Israelites to put sphinxes inside the temple $:\$

bosk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2011, 10:46:48 AM »

What?

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2011, 10:56:41 AM »

EDIT: Nevermind.

AndyDT · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2011, 04:26:49 AM »

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on March 18, 2011, 04:26:47 AM

Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite books of the Bible.

Andy, you come at this religion thing from a different direction than I do, but I think we are approaching the same thing.

Hope so.

rumborak · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2011, 12:32:22 PM »

Interesting to call Taoism what is to me the only sensible disposition towards things you can not have control over. So, you just go with the flow.

rumborak

AndyDT · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2011, 04:17:07 PM »

The thing is though you get to understand what "get in the flow" really means when almost always I've heard it to mean "dont try to be different", which is probably ego.

I also believe it might be about being submissive or humble in an effective way.

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2011, 07:47:17 PM »

Which version of the Tao are you reading, Andy? There's so many different translations, and each one seeks to bring out a different angle of the teachings. I'd recommend you read as many different translations as possible.

AndyDT · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2011, 12:38:45 AM »

Just D.C.Lau's at the moment but also listening to Wayne Dyer's book where he spent a year researching different versions. What about you?

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:47:40 AM »

I've just read the same version. But since I've started studying classical Chinese I thought it might be fun to try and get through the Chinese version. There are an abundance of bilingual versions out there for students. Thankfully, the Tao Te Ching (Along with the I Ching) has received far more translation attempts than many of the history books I have to fight my way through.

Foreign comp lit and philosophy students here tend to try and read as many translations as possible, from what I've noticed. Especially if they don't have any background in Chinese.

AndyDT · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:06:11 AM »

I haven't looked at the I ching yet. I read it dated from 25th century BC from an emperor called Fu Xi. Isn't it something different than a book i.e. numerology/divination?

I picked up the Chuang Tzu which I hope to read at some point.

Re. Confucius - there's some debate as to who came first but Dyer says that Lao Tzu may have written one part to contradict Confucius' obsession with rules. I started reading the Analects and got this impression. The Tao seems more fundamental, that's what I like about it.

Quote from: bösk1 on March 18, 2011, 09:58:08 AM

Quote from: AndyDT on March 18, 2011, 02:29:59 AM
Sounds familiar?

Maybe a bit, superficially. But that doesn't surprise me. A lot of religions throughout the ages have borrowed from God.

Incidentally Jesus's core message had been said many times before :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:15:49 AM »

I don't know much about the I Ching, but the person you mentioned is supposed to have come up with the divination method or something.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2011, 09:35:41 AM »

I don't think the Golden Rule was Jesus's "core message."

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2011, 09:39:16 AM »

Yes, there's a saying that the government official of ancient China were Confucians in name, but privately Daoists. It's also really interesting to see how much Daoism became an obsession of many emperors later on.

The other interesting thing is the I Ching, since it seems to have served as sort of a common ground for Confucians and Daoists alike.

AndyDT · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:11:39 AM »

I've found that parts of the gospels have become far clearer by reading books like the Gita and especially the Tao. Things like "turn the other cheek" and "blessed are the meek" start to make sense when you start to understand the wisdom behind them. Before they were just isolated "sutras" which you're left to try to make sense of in the face of a challenging world. Eckart Tolle says in his books that the wisdom and significance of such phrases has been massively overlooked for perhpas centuries by most christian leaders. I think that's sad.

AndyDT · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2011, 06:43:53 AM »

[delete]

AndyDT · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2011, 04:45:46 AM »

Wayne Dyer explains the Tao:

https://www.oprah.com/own-supersoulsunday/blogs/How-Dr-Wayne-Dyer-Practiced-the-Tao

News: Track-by-track video for Fall Into the Light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ezfzdMpRc0

Author Topic: The Tao (Read 3359 times)