On the Classification of the Jewish People

[Super Dude]

At last, I've found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious

Ethnoreligious communities define their ethnic identity neither exclusively by ancestral heritage nor simply by religious affiliation, but often through a combination of both (a long shared history; a cultural tradition of its own; either a common geographical origin, or descent from a small number of common ancestors; a common language, not necessarily peculiar to the group; a common literature peculiar to the group; a common religion different from that of neighbouring groups; being a minority or being an oppressed or a dominant group within a larger community).

I don't care that the article is almost wholly without citations, because regardless of that fact the above quote perfectly describes what it means to be a Jew.

Also the examples of peoples similar to the Jews in that respect (listed in the article) are interesting choices; I've often compared the Jews to the Greeks myself, and always in exploring the elusive definition of Jewry.

[rumborak]

SD, what's your obsession with this?

rumborak

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I don't think it's an obsession. But he always seems to have to explain what it means to be Jewish, which is an extremely loaded question, and I think this is more for reference than anything else.

But I've learned that it's pretty hard to explain what being Jewish means, so I kinda stopped trying But I commend SuperJew for keeping up the debate

[GuineaPig]

This is a useful word.

[Super Dude]

SD, what's your obsession with this?

rumborak

No obsession, basically what PLM said.  I guess you weren't involved in the P/R thread maybe a year back or something in which I spent maybe five to ten pages trying to explain to half the forum what Jewishness is.

Now I've found a definition that answers the question as completely as I possibly can, and I now consider my work completed.

[j]

I seem to recall you explaining it fairly well by the end, a lot of us non-Jews just had some disagreements and some trouble understanding it.

Out of curiosity, where do converts to Judaism fall in this definition?  Or Jews that are of other "ethnicities" for that matter?

-J

[Zook]

I'd like to congrajewlate Super Dude on his find.

[ack44]

Now we know what Israeli politicians are concerned about when they obsess about a "Jewish state": a state based on race AND religion. Of course no politician would be brave enough to say it means an "ethnoreligious" state.

[hefdaddy42]

Now we know what Israeli politicians are concerned about when they obsess about a "Jewish state": a state based on race AND religion. Of course no politician would be brave enough to say it means an "ethnoreligious" state.

They don't have to say "ethnoreligious."  They already know what "Jewish" means.

[ack44]

Now we know what Israeli politicians are concerned about when they obsess about a "Jewish state": a state based on race AND religion. Of course no politician would be brave enough to say it means an "ethnoreligious" state.

They don't have to say "ethnoreligious."  They already know what "Jewish" means.

Lol, my post wasn't meant to be taken at face value. Obviously "Jew" means different things in different contexts (MP isn't providing an ethnoreligious understanding of himself when he says he's a Jew). It's a very ambiguous term and hence politically useful.

[Super Dude]

I'm gonna ignore that.

I seem to recall you explaining it fairly well by the end, a lot of us non-Jews just had some disagreements and some trouble understanding it.

Out of curiosity, where do converts to Judaism fall in this definition?  Or Jews that are of other "ethnicities" for that matter?

-J

I really don't know.  I honestly know only one convert personally and he's a family member, so I really don't know how other Jews regard him socially...although he was given the privilege of reading from the Torah at his daughter's bat mitzvah, so if there is some sort of stigma it's not a big one.

And the ethnicity bit is another complicated issue because Jews of all ethnicities are considered Jews, but historically the predominantly Ashkenazic (Western European) Israeli population is known to overpower Sephardim (Middle Eastern) Jews politically and to some degree in civil life.