Why are the wealthy -always- demonized?

[Perpetual Change]

Something I saw on a blog I usually follow:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-rise-of-the-new-global-elite/8343/

What is more relevant to our times, though, is that the rich of today are also different from the rich of yesterday. Our light-speed, globally connected economy has led to the rise of a new super-elite that consists, to a notable degree, of first- and second-generation wealth. Its members are hardworking, highly educated, jet-setting meritocrats who feel they are the deserving winners of a tough, worldwide economic competition—and many of them, as a result, have an ambivalent attitude toward those of us who didn’t succeed so spectacularly. Perhaps most noteworthy, they are becoming a transglobal community of peers who have more in common with one another than with their countrymen back home. Whether they maintain primary residences in New York or Hong Kong, Moscow or Mumbai, today’s super-rich are increasingly a nation unto themselves.

My initial response:

Today's wealthy youth are "jet-setting meritocrats." Today's middle-class youth also enjoy their fair share of "jet-setting," and can be just as angry and conservative as the wealthy. That was not true decades ago. In the 70s, the wealthy youth were still "jet-setting meritocrats" and the middle-class youth were lucky to fly at all.

Our generation's wealthy youth are much more receptive to ideas about real social and environmental progress than the last generation's Ayn Rand-slobbering wealthy youth were. I don't buy the pessimistic false dichotomy painted by the writer of this article. Maybe today's wealthy will be just as bad, but let's wait and see before we cast our votes. In my experience, however, I've never met a wealthy person who is anywhere near as smug as the cartoon bad-guys described here.

Another thing I don't get is why, like in this article, the "wealthy" always get defined in such vague "Us vs. Them" terms. For example, here, the 'super-wealthy' are basically defined as "those dastardly young people you hear about from friends or meet in the airport who live in expensive cities far from home and hang out with a community of international friends."

[j]

Because I'm jealous.

-J

[Ravenheart]

I have to wonder if people with that sort of mindset actually consider that maybe, just maybe, there's a reason these people are in the position that they are? Yes, there is a portion of people who inherit wealth, but there are just as many that do so because of their own imaginations, thinking, reasoning, and skills.

The wealthy will always be portrayed as self-centered, arrogant, and smug, mainly because it helps feed the egos of people who wish they were in their positions.

[orcus116]

I guess it's easy to blame the guys higher up. I do know many people in far lower classes that are worse pieces of shit as far as everything goes.

[rumborak]

I have found that the lower people are on the rung, the more convinced they are they could do the job of the highest rung. In my previous job, the janitor was always the most vocal about how the company should be run, closely followed by the receptionists.

rumborak

[orcus116]

I'll admit at my part time job I'm a bit guilty of that as well but mainly because my managers really do make decisions that defy even the most basic principles of logic sometimes. Not that I could run the whole place, because I couldn't, but there's a ton of little things that could be improved that they refuse to address.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, that's any job environment I think.

[rumborak]

That's something different though, orcus. You actually have insight into the workings and see potential for improvement. The interesting part about those characters was that, despite having no information to base their opinion on, were still adamant that they knew how to do it better.

rumborak

[orcus116]

Oh, I'm guessing you're talking about janitors talking about how they could run an engineering firm?

[William Wallace]

PT, I'm surprised to see you defending rich people.

[Perpetual Change]

PT, I'm surprised to see you defending rich people.

I've met very few "extremely wealthy" people in my life, but thanks to getting the chance to study in Hong Kong I've met quite a few more lately, especially those "self serving finance majors from across the world" which the article mentions. I myself am not wealthy at all and come from a very blue-collar, middle class background, but the people I've met with money have almost all been some of the most thoughtful, caring, and yes, even "sharing" people I know. I harbor no jealously or other ill-sentiments toward the wealthy, even though we may disagree on some political issues.

And anyway, I'm free-enterprise. I still think the only real difference between you and I is that I want certain pieces (like health and education) taken (at least partially) off the playing board.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: I feel like the winners are better when the contest has really been fair.

[Super Dude]

I mean I don't know about all the rest of that stuff, but I have heard academics as far back as 1990 saying that the super-rich were becoming "a nation unto themselves."  Thing is I can totally see that happening, and I have no problem with it.  I actually trust wealthy individuals more than I trust wealthy groups, i.e. corporate culture.

[Adami]

This is just how the class system works. The lower class and some of the middle class demonize the upper class, while the upper class demonizes the lower class and part of the middle class.

[sonatafanica]

Because all I know how to do is make cartoons and there's no way I'm ever going to own a private jet or even a high end car so those guys can calmly, and gently, wrap their mouths around my genitals as they live their lives free of the stresses of earning money to survive.

[eric42434224]

Because all I know how to do is make cartoons and there's no way I'm ever going to own a private jet or even a high end car so those guys can calmly, and gently, wrap their mouths around my genitals as they live their lives free of the stresses of earning money to survive.

I know a lot of wealthy people (not ultra wealthy like Bill Gates, but merely millionaires).  Just know that they are just as stressed and unhappy as the rest of us.  They have different stresses that come with money.  It is an illusion that they have "better" lives.  I know middle class people that live within their means, have their priorities straight, and are happier than the millionaire who is...believe it or not, living paycheck to paycheck....its just a bigger paycheck.

[lordxizor]

A "millionaire" who lives paycheck to paycheck is likely not a millionaire. A millionaire is someone with more than $1 million in net worth (assets minus debt), not simply someone with a large income. Many people with very high incomes have very little in terms of assets, or what assets they have are balanced out by large amounts of debt.

I personally have a hard time with the ultra wealthy (billionaires and such). I just wonder what the heck they plan on doing with all that money. Why not give it away instead of dying with billions in the bank? The average millionaire is a person who runs their own small business, lives in a modest house, and drives a modest car. They simply live a life well within their means and are able to save a lot of money. I have no problem with these people.

[eric42434224]

A "millionaire" who lives paycheck to paycheck is likely not a millionaire. A millionaire is someone with more than $1 million in net worth (assets minus debt), not simply someone with a large income. Many people with very high incomes have very little in terms of assets, or what assets they have are balanced out by large amounts of debt.

I personally have a hard time with the ultra wealthy (billionaires and such). I just wonder what the heck they plan on doing with all that money. Why not give it away instead of dying with billions in the bank? The average millionaire is a person who runs their own small business, lives in a modest house, and drives a modest car. They simply live a life well within their means and are able to save a lot of money. I have no problem with these people.

Net worth and investable assets are very different.  You can be a millionaire and be very illiquid.  The funds can be tied up in Real Estate, Illiquid investments, and cars, etc.  You can be making $250 a year....and spending $250 a year...and live paycheck to paycheck.

[Chino]

I have found that the lower people are on the rung, the more convinced they are they could do the job of the highest rung. In my previous job, the janitor was always the most vocal about how the company should be run, closely followed by the receptionists.

rumborak

I used to think this way, and assumed thay the majority of people making comments about the bigger picture were just clueless as to how a business operated. I started watching that show Undercover Boss a few months ago and made me realize that if I am ever a business owner, I want every employee under me to express there thoughts and ideas about the company.

[lordxizor]

Net worth and investable assets are very different.  You can be a millionaire and be very illiquid.  The funds can be tied up in Real Estate, Illiquid investments, and cars, etc.  You can be making $250 a year....and spending $250 a year...and live paycheck to paycheck.

True, but generally when people are considered living "paycheck to paycheck" they have little or no savings.

If I've got a $1 million house that I've managed to pay off completely over the years and am now not able to save anything due to the high upkeep and other expenses, I suppose I could be considered living paycheck to paycheck. But I'm sitting on a pile of wealth by staying in a home I'm having a hard time affording, so it's be hard for people to have sympathy for me.

People with a ton of wealth, but little extra left over at the end of the month are basically living paycheck to paycheck by choice rather than necessity.

[eric42434224]

Net worth and investable assets are very different.  You can be a millionaire and be very illiquid.  The funds can be tied up in Real Estate, Illiquid investments, and cars, etc.  You can be making $250 a year....and spending $250 a year...and live paycheck to paycheck.

True, but generally when people are considered living "paycheck to paycheck" they have little or no savings.

If I've got a $1 million house that I've managed to pay off completely over the years and am now not able to save anything due to the high upkeep and other expenses, I suppose I could be considered living paycheck to paycheck. But I'm sitting on a pile of wealth by staying in a home I'm having a hard time affording, so it's be hard for people to have sympathy for me.

People with a ton of wealth, but little extra left over at the end of the month are basically living paycheck to paycheck by choice rather than necessity.

Paycheck to paycheck can also mean that your savings can go kaput in 6 months if you lose your job, regardless of the size of the paycheck.  My point was that just because someone is a millionaire and lives in a big house with nice cars and has a nice income, they can easily be a few bad choices/bad luck from having the whole house of cards fall down.  It was just to illustrate that when people despise the wealthy for how great their lives must be, that great life may not be what it appears, and that many times, they face the same financial stresses that the middle class does...just with different numbers.

[lordxizor]

Paycheck to paycheck can also mean that your savings can go kaput in 6 months if you lose your job, regardless of the size of the paycheck.  My point was that just because someone is a millionaire and lives in a big house with nice cars and has a nice income, they can easily be a few bad choices/bad luck from having the whole house of cards fall down.  It was just to illustrate that when people despise the wealthy for how great their lives must be, that great life may not be what it appears, and that many times, they face the same financial stresses that the middle class does...just with different numbers.

I think we're basically in agreement that most people who appear wealthy are just as much on a financial edge as the rest of us.

The real difference is that people who bring in a lot of income are on that edge by choice. Just because a guy makes $200k/yr doesn't mean he needs a $800k house and two brind new BMWs. If a person making that much money bought a modest home and modest vehiclesand spent their money wisely, they'd be able to save plenty of money and wouldn't be in tough financial shape even with a job loss (for a reasonable period of time anyway). A person making $25k/yr doesn't have a choice. They need to live in the cheapest place they can find and live as cheaply as possible. A loss of income for even a few days can ruin a person like this.

Basically my point is that it's hard to have too much sympathy for the guy who spent a ton of money and then was left in financial ruin.

[eric42434224]

Yes, we are in agreement.  My point was not that you shouldnt feel sorry for that person, as you are correct...it was his/her choice to live that lifestyle.  My point was more that many times, those that appear wealthy are not as well off as one may think.  I had my income drop by half for the last 2 years.  We had to cut back big time and stick to a tight budget if we were to continue funding retirement accounts, educational accounts, and send the kids to private schools.  Now that my income is back up, we are sticking to the budget.

An old business aquaintance once said that wealth is the difference between what you make and what you spend.  I dont particularly agree with that definition, but the sentiment was great.  It is very tempting to increase spending as income increases.

Just remember....that person next to you in the Mercedes might be stressed out, wondering how he is going to get out of debt and make his $700 car payment.  So dont hate...it is a waste of time and energy.  I drive a 1999 Honda civic with 120k miles....and the wife has a 2003 Ford Explorer...and I havent had a car payment in over 7 yrs and 5 yrs respectively.  Do I care what others think....sometimes....but the older I get, the less I care.

[lordxizor]

but the older I get, the less I care.

Me too. It's amazing how much money you can save when you stop caring about what other people think you should have.

Anyway... I'll stop and let this thread get back on topic.

[Super Dude]

Honestly, I believe that whatever happens in the rest of a nation's economic system, the best society one can hope for is a strong, confident middle class.  After all, much of the financial crisis in 2008 was due to dissatisfied middle class members trying to live beyond their means, overreaching their credit.