Author Topic: Protesting Gas Prices  (Read 3153 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline juice

  • Posts: 1418
  • om nom nom
Protesting Gas Prices
« on: March 10, 2011, 10:04:43 PM »
Have any of you seen those groups on facebook going around trying to get people to not buy gas on a specific day?  Do you think that'll do anything?  Aren't gas prices so high because of all the revolutions going on in the middle east?  Discuss gas prices and stuff here.  I could've had this entire first post be questions but I decided not to.

Online orcus116

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 9604
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 10:19:39 PM »
Hell no. Don't buy gas one day, you'll buy it another day. Any stats or shit you see like "it'll cost the companies X number of millions of dollars blah blah" are completely ridiculous. The only person you'd take money away from is the gas station owner for one day because all that gas is already out of the oil companies hands.

Offline William Wallace

  • Posts: 2791
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 10:45:33 PM »
Aren't gas prices so high because of all the revolutions going on in the middle east? 
Yes, but there's got to be a villain - always. And those DAMN OIL COMPANIES!!!!! >:( >:( >:(" are the perfect scapegoat.

Offline Riceball

  • It's the economy, stupid.
  • Posts: 969
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 10:56:23 PM »
They tried that is Australia a while back - had full-on backing from our current affairs shows too.

Outcome: Exactly what Orcus said. It makes no difference. Once the petrol leaves the wholesaler, its the retailer that you are hurting and they really aren't part of the problem.


And; gas (petrol hehe) prices are so high because your dollar is fairly weak. A large proportion of America's oil is imported and so is exposed to fluctuations in the currency. Happened in Australia in 2001-02 when the US dollar got ridiculously strong; our prices went up above AU$1 per litre (cant be bothered working out US$/gallon). Petrol is the one of the easiest thing to generate publicity on (next to those damn foreigners taking jobs): its ubiquitious.
I punch those numbers into my calculator and they make a happy face.

A $500 Musical Odyssey: Now accepting nominations

Online lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5345
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2011, 06:05:06 AM »
The only thing that you could really do is have everyone stop driving for a week and simply not use gas. Not buying gas for a day just means you'll buy it the next. It's not like most people buy gas everyday anyway.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 10:21:35 AM »
I went to Texas recently, and there was an inordinate amount of pickup trucks. So, I don't buy that gas is too expensive.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 10:25:35 AM »
Gas is expensive because of speculators.  There is a ton of oil in reserve right now.  It's all BS. 
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 10:36:16 AM »
Gas is expensive because of speculators.  

False.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2011, 10:38:13 AM »
Gas is expensive because of speculators.  

False.

Elaborate. 

See I can do that too.  Why can't you explain why I'm wrong so then I am further informed?  No need to be a jerk about it.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline Dublagent66

  • Devouring consciousness...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9695
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Digesting power
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 10:39:25 AM »
I hope the prices keep going up.  Maybe that'll decrease the amount of drivers on the road.  Think about it.  It's a self correcting system as far as drunks are concerned.  They're not gonna sacrifice beer money for gas.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 11:09:38 AM by Dublagent66 »
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
"There's not a pill you can take.  There's not a class you can go to.  Stupid is foreva."  -Ron White

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19238
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 10:42:35 AM »
I will admit that I do not have the greatest grasp on exactly how the whole 'world economy' works, but I have a feeling that just makes me equal to just about all the Congressmen in the US...so...I have a question for those of you who understand this on a higher level.
  Why can't there just be a set price for a barrel of oil? I remember hearing figures like it only costs $3 or $4 dollars or something like that to produce a barrel of oil, so why not just say from now on across the board a barrel of oil cost....$60 or something like that. Make it a win/win situation. The companies still make a huge profit and the consumer is cut a break. Is that just to simple a way of looking at it?
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 10:45:18 AM »
Gas is expensive because of speculators.  

False.

Elaborate.  

See I can do that too.  Why can't you explain why I'm wrong so then I am further informed?  No need to be a jerk about it.

Well, I can easily post information that shows why speculation is only a smaller part of the reason...and will do so....but first, lets see the reasoning you have as to why speculation is the cause.  You posted it first, so lets see your support for the statement.
And Im not being a jerk...just calling you on a statement that is just reactionary with no explanation or support.
And if you want explanations so you are further informed just reinforces my guess that you just posted it without any knowledge on the subject.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 10:47:12 AM »
I will admit that I do not have the greatest grasp on exactly how the whole 'world economy' works, but I have a feeling that just makes me equal to just about all the Congressmen in the US...so...I have a question for those of you who understand this on a higher level.
  Why can't there just be a set price for a barrel of oil? I remember hearing figures like it only costs $3 or $4 dollars or something like that to produce a barrel of oil, so why not just say from now on across the board a barrel of oil cost....$60 or something like that. Make it a win/win situation. The companies still make a huge profit and the consumer is cut a break. Is that just to simple a way of looking at it?

Yes, too simple.  There are way too many factors that go into pricing of oil.  Just like milk prices change every week you are in the grocery store.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19238
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 10:49:28 AM »
I will admit that I do not have the greatest grasp on exactly how the whole 'world economy' works, but I have a feeling that just makes me equal to just about all the Congressmen in the US...so...I have a question for those of you who understand this on a higher level.
  Why can't there just be a set price for a barrel of oil? I remember hearing figures like it only costs $3 or $4 dollars or something like that to produce a barrel of oil, so why not just say from now on across the board a barrel of oil cost....$60 or something like that. Make it a win/win situation. The companies still make a huge profit and the consumer is cut a break. Is that just to simple a way of looking at it?

Yes, too simple.  There are way too many factors that go into pricing of oil.  Just like milk prices change every week you are in the grocery store.
What would happen if a country like the US who consumes a large amount of oil were to say "We are not paying any more than $60 a barrel"
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 10:52:27 AM »
Oil is a traded commodity on the market.  It is affected by supply and demand.  Well have both the supply and the demand currently.  We have more oil in reserves than ever before in the US.  It's not scarce.  The price goes up because of speculation of future supplies.  So every time someone fires an RPG in the middle east, the price of oil starts to rise.  This is on speculation and trading. 

The other big reason is taxes.  Especially in Europe.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2011, 10:52:40 AM »
I will admit that I do not have the greatest grasp on exactly how the whole 'world economy' works, but I have a feeling that just makes me equal to just about all the Congressmen in the US...so...I have a question for those of you who understand this on a higher level.
  Why can't there just be a set price for a barrel of oil? I remember hearing figures like it only costs $3 or $4 dollars or something like that to produce a barrel of oil, so why not just say from now on across the board a barrel of oil cost....$60 or something like that. Make it a win/win situation. The companies still make a huge profit and the consumer is cut a break. Is that just to simple a way of looking at it?

Yes, too simple.  There are way too many factors that go into pricing of oil.  Just like milk prices change every week you are in the grocery store.
What would happen if a country like the US who consumes a large amount of oil were to say "We are not paying any more than $60 a barrel"

They would say, "Good luck with that"
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 11:07:32 AM »
Oil is a traded commodity on the market.  It is affected by supply and demand.   Well have both the supply and the demand currently.  We have more oil in reserves than ever before in the US.  It's not scarce.  The price goes up because of speculation of future supplies.  So every time someone fires an RPG in the middle east, the price of oil starts to rise.  This is on speculation and trading.  

The other big reason is taxes.  Especially in Europe.

There you go.  Fundamental Supply & Demand is the biggest factor in pricing.  Speculation has an effect, but it is not very significant.  People want it to be significant so they can point at some greed induced factor to pin fault on.

And you cant use the oil reserves...they are reserves for a reason.  We have the demand...but we DONT have the supply.  We use 21M barrels a day but produce only 6M.  That means, even if we use the reserves, we end up running out eventually.  

Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 11:55:12 AM »
Right, but the price of a barrel of oil keeps going up.  And it always spikes due to speculation.  Demand didn't change drastically over the past month, it was the mideast uprisings.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2011, 11:58:21 AM »
Has a Facebook group ever done anything? Everybody thinks that if they make a group on Facebook protesting something they have power over it. But the truth is, they don't.

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2011, 12:04:48 PM »
Well it kind of worked for Egypt lol
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2011, 12:07:36 PM »
Right, but the price of a barrel of oil keeps going up.  And it always spikes due to speculation.  Demand didn't change drastically over the past month, it was the mideast uprisings.

No, the price of a barrell doesnt keep going up.....it FLUCTUATES.  Remember when gas was $4.20 last year?  It went down.
And the issues in the middle east are affecting the prices because of the effects it will have on supply.

There may be a misunderstanding on what you mean by speculation.  How do you define "Speculation" in this context?
You are talking about Commodoties Futures Trading when referencing speculation, correct?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 12:37:07 PM by eric42434224 »
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2011, 12:39:42 PM »
Sorry I didn't mean to say it keeps going up all of the time.  I meant to say it goes up whenever something happens in the mideast.  Or whenever something shifts in the global market.  This is because of people trading oil as a commodity in the markets.  I really don't think supply and demand is the only reason for these insane spikes.  All the people holding the oil are the ones speculating the prices per barrel. 

The price of oil can go up pretty arbitrarily based on what some people think will happen.  I think there is a lot of abuse in that people are making a lot of money exploiting anything that happens around the world that could possibly affect oil production.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 12:55:54 PM »
Sorry I didn't mean to say it keeps going up all of the time.  I meant to say it goes up whenever something happens in the mideast.  Or whenever something shifts in the global market.  This is because of people trading oil as a commodity in the markets.  I really don't think supply and demand is the only reason for these insane spikes.  All the people holding the oil are the ones speculating the prices per barrel.  

The price of oil can go up pretty arbitrarily based on what some people think will happen.  I think there is a lot of abuse in that people are making a lot of money exploiting anything that happens around the world that could possibly affect oil production.

Im glad we cleared that up, as I thought there might have been a misunderstanding about our use of "speculation".  I thought you might have meant speculation in regards to changing prices, or changing production levels, due to events going on in the world, and trying to anticipate the effects those changes will have.  That is just Supply and Demand.  If so, we would essentially agree.

But.....You post "This is because of people trading oil as a commodity in the markets" it is clear you are talking about commodoties futures trading....those "big bad speculators".  So now I can confidently say that you are incorrect.  In fact, there were studies done back at the height of the spike in prices (in 08 I believe) that showed speculation was not a significant reason for the increase, and that supply and demand was.  

"All the people holding the oil are the ones speculating the prices per barrel"...this just tells me you dont fully understand commodoties future trading.  They dont hold all the oil.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 01:04:36 PM by eric42434224 »
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 01:05:05 PM »
I am no expert on the subject.  I must understand it wrong.  I am definitely no expert.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 01:10:59 PM »
I am no expert on the subject.  I must understand it wrong.  I am definitely no expert.

No worries dude.  Im no expert either.  I understand why you say it though, as the speculators were a popular villian back in 08.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline 7StringedBeast

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2011, 01:13:07 PM »
lol I just realized i repeated myself in that last post. haha typing while distracted is funny.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59477
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2011, 01:55:16 PM »
My complaint is how fast in the last 5 years it's gone up. So how is that justified?

Also.  I was at a gas station and the guy working there said and I qoute, "It's about time that America has to pay the same price for gas."

May respone, "When the taxes from the gas goes to my helth care, I'll agree with you, till then it's out of control.

My oil for my house went up crazy amounts.  This is the last 6 years.

2004-- $1.09
2005-- $1.47
2006-- $2.27
2007-- $2.72
2008-- $4.74
2009-- $2.42
2010-- $2.71

Plus how many have not have a raise in 5 year and now have lost their job.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2011, 04:04:46 PM »
The real issue is that people can no longer maintain their status quo of having a 1-hour commute in a huge car and wooden houses with no insulation. The current price is nowhere near what European countries pay.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13607
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2011, 05:01:31 PM »
The real issue is that people can no longer maintain their status quo of having a 1-hour commute in a huge car and wooden houses with no insulation. The current price is nowhere near what European countries pay.

rumborak

Not sure about the insulation part, our house seems fine. We don’t use much heat to warm it up. But yes of course the great lure of suburbia is no longer as cheap as it used to. At least the commuting. Unfortunately, in the US most people who work in large metropolitan areas can’t afford to live near where they work. I’ve been taking the bus to work for 10 years, and know lots of my co-workers do too. But know lots who do not.

People also need to figure out how to better their driving habits. Make stops on the way to/from work. Consolidate your errands as part of one big trip. Share a ride with people if you are going out as a group. I know that’s a small dent in a big problem, but every little bit makes a difference.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Riceball

  • It's the economy, stupid.
  • Posts: 969
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2011, 05:34:39 PM »
I hate being in a different timezone to you yanks; I always miss out on the good discussion lol

The oil price fluctuates generally because of supply and demand, in a structural sense. You can look at this in two ways. One: Governments buy oil from the extractors/refiners to hold in reserves and then distribute to their citizens. Or, two: companies within these countries purchase from extractors for refinement, manufacture, etc. So; at no one time does the market "clear" per se - there is always excess capacity otherwise the price would fluctuate even more than it does at present. An example probably best illustrates this.

During the GFC, oil prices went from $150 per barrel to around $35 (this is for Brent, the US-derived benchmark). If the market is driven wholly by supply and demand, one would only be able to explain this ridiculously huge drop in price as a ridiculously huge drop in demand. Now I was still studying when this all went down, but I dare say that the world did not magically drop its consumption of oil to 20% of its pre-GFC levels. It would be explained by an at the margin drop in demand - countries and companies didn't need to purchase as much oil due to a slight reduction in demand, and they just whittled down their stockpiles. This is where the waters get muddied a bit in terms of the market for oil. Speculators control prices at the margin (ie, the swings and roundabouts that get seen on a daily basis), but in a structural sense, prices are controlled by much bigger entities such as corporations and governments.

Now that we are seeing a more sustained recovery in the developed world, who command a fair chunk of global demand, the oil price is structurally tracking higher - to, say, $90-$100 a barrel. The swings that are being seen over the past few weeks are more to do with speculators trying to make a quick buck over "uncertainty" created in the Middle East. IDK what Brent is fetching today, but my educated guess would be that it dropped after there was no real incident in Saudi Arabia on their Day of Rage.

My final point would be that oil is almost never purchased at the spot price, that price exists almost purely for traders. Its more of a rail that indicates current trends.

The fact that oil permiates almost the entirity of a modern economy (petrol, heating oil, plastics, lubricants etc) is why people get so worried when there is spikes in prices. It causes inflationary pressures, assuming entities who control prices have enough market power to pass increased costs on.

You should listen to me, I'm a whale biologist. :loser:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 05:41:33 PM by Riceball »
I punch those numbers into my calculator and they make a happy face.

A $500 Musical Odyssey: Now accepting nominations

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 4174
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2011, 05:58:50 PM »
fucking fantastic post.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline MetalMike06

  • DT.net Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1549
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2011, 06:49:37 PM »
Honestly even though it seems like a pain in the ass to pay $4 a gallon for gas, much of the rest of the world, I think, pays at least 2-3x what America pays already. For that I will never complain.

Offline Riceball

  • It's the economy, stupid.
  • Posts: 969
  • Gender: Male
Re: Protesting Gas Prices
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2011, 06:57:09 PM »
Back of the envelope calculation for Australia:

We pay AU$1.40 a litre at the moment (its on a distinct upward trend though); which is about AU$5.30 a gallon if I'm not mistaken. And that's with our dollar at parity with the US dollar - so consider yourself very lucky :biggrin:

Cost of living in Australia is massive though for everything. One of the few pitfalls of living on an island...

fucking fantastic post.

Aww shucks, every other time I've gone on a spree like that I've killed the thread lol
I punch those numbers into my calculator and they make a happy face.

A $500 Musical Odyssey: Now accepting nominations