Why do people reject religion? I think I know

[Ben_Jamin]

What if that new species was actually an old species that we never found out about until now?
 

[gmillerdrake]

You think evolution is a trick being played on us by satan?

Oh my.

Not in the sense of it not being plausible, but in a sense that in the "grand scheme" of our eternal existence evolution whether it's true or not is not important.

[eric42434224]

You think evolution is a trick being played on us by satan?

Oh my.

Not in the sense of it not being plausible, but in a sense that in the "grand scheme" of our eternal existence evolution whether it's true or not is not important.

So if you think it is plausible, and the scientific community is in unanimous agreement of its validity, why dont you believe it?
The ranking of evolution in the "grand scheme of things", or its importance, is a personal choice by you, and quite frankly has nothing to do with whether it is real and correct.  

I personally feel that searching for the explanation of things is exactly what a god would hope for us.  The search for knowledge is not a bad thing as you have suggested.  It does not take us away from god, but is the very thing that brings us closer to god.  Merely worshipping him and ignoring the brilliance of his creation (if he exists and created all of this) seems to me to be remaining stagnant.
I see the view of seeking knowledge being a bad this as merely a form of control in organized religion.

[Bombardana]

BTW: of course God and evolution could be both real and many believe this.  It certainly makes much more sence than believing that the complexities of our world are due to billions and billions of natures tiny little "accidents".

I think the exact opposite is true. It makes much more sense that given the incredible vastness of the universe, literally too big to comprehend, that this counters the claim that all the right conditions couldn't occur together to allow life to appear and evolve. We are in the position of being on one infinitesimal planet that did manage to achieve all these conditions, and so we exist. We only need to glance around our solar system to see planets that have failed to have life. How many planets are there within just our own galaxy, that have failed to produce life? How many planets are there in the ENTIRE universe!? It is an utterly incalculable number, so I think it is fair to say that the universe has had plenty of opportunities to allow for life. We succeeded, hence we are here now. It is amazing. And despite being infinitely unlikely for us personally, it is pretty much inevitable given the size of the universe that life would appear somewhere. Life is a statistical inevitability.

To me, that makes much more sense than having to make the unbelievable assumption that there must therefore be a God for us to exist.

[juice]

What he said. ^

[gmillerdrake]

You think evolution is a trick being played on us by satan?

Oh my.

Not in the sense of it not being plausible, but in a sense that in the "grand scheme" of our eternal existence evolution whether it's true or not is not important.

So if you think it is plausible, and the scientific community is in unanimous agreement of its validity, why dont you believe it?
The ranking of evolution in the "grand scheme of things", or its importance, is a personal choice by you, and quite frankly has nothing to do with whether it is real and correct.  

I personally feel that searching for the explanation of things is exactly what a god would hope for us.  The search for knowledge is not a bad thing as you have suggested.  It does not take us away from god, but is the very thing that brings us closer to god.  Merely worshipping him and ignoring the brilliance of his creation (if he exists and created all of this) seems to me to be remaining stagnant.
I see the view of seeking knowledge being a bad this as merely a form of control in organized religion.

You are correct that my indifference to evolution has no bearing on its validity. As I stated, I do not discount the profound, abundant evidence that science produces to explain a great deal of our natural world. I do believe that God is the ‘ultimate’ scientist and he undoubtedly has crafted creation to reflect his majesty and capabilities. And it is true that God implores us to seek wisdom and knowledge…it does in fact give us a better understanding of his will and divine spirit. It is the source of the knowledge and wisdom that one must be careful as they ingest it.
   I think it’s unfortunate that I read time and time again that a lot of you have had encounters with ‘overly’ religious “Christians”. I know my Pastor teaches us not to get caught up in being religious, that it is weird and does turn people off to God. I personally adhere to the motto “Honor God and Help People” Although this discussion I’ve been involved in today doesn’t really reflect it, I generally try not to proselytize to people or go all evangelical. I have in instances been a bit “preachy” during this debate so I kind of deviated a bit from that rule. Hopefully I haven't offended any of you.

[7StringedBeast]

I think its funny how God is male to everyone here.  Given the fact that females are the bringers of life.  Maybe not funny, but I find it interesting.  I feel like God cannot have a gender. 

To me I think God is more like the Force in Star Wars, minus all the magic tricks. 

[juice]

Well when God is mentioned in the bible the word He is used so I think that has something to do with it.

[GuineaPig]

I don't think it's surprising that a paternal society results in a male god.

[hefdaddy42]

 Perhaps the fossils we are finding of the extremely old bones of man are remnants of our time on earth before we gave into temptation. Who knows. Obviously you can’t deny the tangible evidence of those fossils. My honest opinion (and biblical theory)is this. Man once enjoyed the perfect harmony and beauty of this planet as every other living animal does today. We were created just as every other creature was…to live ‘forever’. That’s how God intended it to be. We were not individuals and had no concept of that individuality that accompanies man today and were content with just ‘being’.
     The remainder of God’s creatures on this earth have no desire for individuality because they still abide God’s instruction and are content with his consistent and caring provision. Animals are satisfied with just being ‘animals’, they are abiding God’s commandment not to ‘eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ and to just trust in him. I believe God gave each and every animal on this planet that instruction. Don’t give in to that temptation of “knowing”  and you will enjoy utter peace. That may seem silly but I do not doubt in any manner that God communicates with all his creation and would offer that gift to them all.
    Man is the only one of God’s creatures that does not “fit in” on this planet and that is because we chose to disobey God and become “like” him in gaining that knowledge of good and evil. When we were thrown out of the Garden…we were essentially kicked out of the “club” that every other animal and intelligent species on this planet enjoys to this day. A Robin is a Robin today, yesterday and tomorrow. When one dies there is another Robin…it’s not “Mr. Johnson Robin” died how sad. Robin’s along with the rest of God’s animals will live on for countless hundreds of years because they have accepted the humility and decree that God has set before them. Once man chose to ignore that decree and find out for himself just what this life was all about we forfeited our eternal existence that was promised to us for a spiritual battle that wages everyday between us and a very jealous devil.  As we try to re-establish that Holy link that is ingrained within us with God and re-acquire everlasting life the enemy does all he can to derail our efforts to re-connect with God. Satan is ticked that God has given us a second chance to enjoy his eternal comfort and has forbid him from EVER feeling that greatness again. So enter the author of confusion to try and confound and confuse us in any means possible for us to lose sight of the fact that God does exist and that we do have a heavenly savior.  

   Could evolution be a part of the process God used to put all this into place?  Maybe…but I just tend to see it as a device and means used to distract us from more important issues.

Look, I'm a Christian, but I have no idea where you got most of this stuff.

[Quadrochosis]

I think the more appropriate question is "Why do people accept religion?"

Everything my life experience has told me has blatantly said that humans are not religious by nature (but rather philosophical) so I think it's more appropriate to puzzle over how people accept ancient doctrines that aren't based in anything but faith.

[Zook]

  Perhaps the fossils we are finding of the extremely old bones of man are remnants of our time on earth before we gave into temptation. Who knows. Obviously you can’t deny the tangible evidence of those fossils. My honest opinion (and biblical theory)is this. Man once enjoyed the perfect harmony and beauty of this planet as every other living animal does today. We were created just as every other creature was…to live ‘forever’. That’s how God intended it to be. We were not individuals and had no concept of that individuality that accompanies man today and were content with just ‘being’.
     The remainder of God’s creatures on this earth have no desire for individuality because they still abide God’s instruction and are content with his consistent and caring provision. Animals are satisfied with just being ‘animals’, they are abiding God’s commandment not to ‘eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ and to just trust in him. I believe God gave each and every animal on this planet that instruction. Don’t give in to that temptation of “knowing”  and you will enjoy utter peace. That may seem silly but I do not doubt in any manner that God communicates with all his creation and would offer that gift to them all.
    Man is the only one of God’s creatures that does not “fit in” on this planet and that is because we chose to disobey God and become “like” him in gaining that knowledge of good and evil. When we were thrown out of the Garden…we were essentially kicked out of the “club” that every other animal and intelligent species on this planet enjoys to this day. A Robin is a Robin today, yesterday and tomorrow. When one dies there is another Robin…it’s not “Mr. Johnson Robin” died how sad. Robin’s along with the rest of God’s animals will live on for countless hundreds of years because they have accepted the humility and decree that God has set before them. Once man chose to ignore that decree and find out for himself just what this life was all about we forfeited our eternal existence that was promised to us for a spiritual battle that wages everyday between us and a very jealous devil.  As we try to re-establish that Holy link that is ingrained within us with God and re-acquire everlasting life the enemy does all he can to derail our efforts to re-connect with God. Satan is ticked that God has given us a second chance to enjoy his eternal comfort and has forbid him from EVER feeling that greatness again. So enter the author of confusion to try and confound and confuse us in any means possible for us to lose sight of the fact that God does exist and that we do have a heavenly savior.   

   Could evolution be a part of the process God used to put all this into place?  Maybe…but I just tend to see it as a device and means used to distract us from more important issues.

I gotta give it to the writers of the bible. They knew the human race was a gullible breed and struck gold.

[rumborak]

Well when God is mentioned in the bible the word He is used so I think that has something to do with it.

Or "Us" (in Genesis), since that section takes root in the Enuma Elis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En%C3%BBma_Eli%C5%A1#Relationship_with_the_Bible)

rumborak

[Adami]

Well when God is mentioned in the bible the word He is used so I think that has something to do with it.

Or "Us" (in Genesis), since that section takes root in the Enuma Elis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En%C3%BBma_Eli%C5%A1#Relationship_with_the_Bible)

rumborak

Yes the hebrew plural is used to describe god, but it's still masculine.

[William Wallace]

  Perhaps the fossils we are finding of the extremely old bones of man are remnants of our time on earth before we gave into temptation. Who knows. Obviously you can’t deny the tangible evidence of those fossils. My honest opinion (and biblical theory)is this. Man once enjoyed the perfect harmony and beauty of this planet as every other living animal does today. We were created just as every other creature was…to live ‘forever’. That’s how God intended it to be. We were not individuals and had no concept of that individuality that accompanies man today and were content with just ‘being’.
     The remainder of God’s creatures on this earth have no desire for individuality because they still abide God’s instruction and are content with his consistent and caring provision. Animals are satisfied with just being ‘animals’, they are abiding God’s commandment not to ‘eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ and to just trust in him. I believe God gave each and every animal on this planet that instruction. Don’t give in to that temptation of “knowing”  and you will enjoy utter peace. That may seem silly but I do not doubt in any manner that God communicates with all his creation and would offer that gift to them all.
    Man is the only one of God’s creatures that does not “fit in” on this planet and that is because we chose to disobey God and become “like” him in gaining that knowledge of good and evil. When we were thrown out of the Garden…we were essentially kicked out of the “club” that every other animal and intelligent species on this planet enjoys to this day. A Robin is a Robin today, yesterday and tomorrow. When one dies there is another Robin…it’s not “Mr. Johnson Robin” died how sad. Robin’s along with the rest of God’s animals will live on for countless hundreds of years because they have accepted the humility and decree that God has set before them. Once man chose to ignore that decree and find out for himself just what this life was all about we forfeited our eternal existence that was promised to us for a spiritual battle that wages everyday between us and a very jealous devil.  As we try to re-establish that Holy link that is ingrained within us with God and re-acquire everlasting life the enemy does all he can to derail our efforts to re-connect with God. Satan is ticked that God has given us a second chance to enjoy his eternal comfort and has forbid him from EVER feeling that greatness again. So enter the author of confusion to try and confound and confuse us in any means possible for us to lose sight of the fact that God does exist and that we do have a heavenly savior.   

   Could evolution be a part of the process God used to put all this into place?  Maybe…but I just tend to see it as a device and means used to distract us from more important issues.

I gotta give it to the writers of the bible. They knew the human race was a gullible breed and struck gold.

The Bible wasn't an international conspiracy to dupe people into submission. Crack a history book.

[gmillerdrake]

Zook and W.W.  you guys are to kind. 

[William Wallace]

Zook and W.W.  you guys are to kind.  

Why do I get a thumbs down? Your opinion really matters to me.

[Zook]

Yeah, WW was defending the bible, but he really doesn't know either way, just like I don't, but come on now. I'll stop though before Bosk and Hef show up to insult me as usual.

[bosk1]

You smell funny.

[Zook]

[William Wallace]

Yeah, WW was defending the bible, but he really doesn't know either way, just like I don't, but come on now. I'll stop though before Bosk and Hef show up to insult me as usual.

But I do know and you could, too. Just try that book cracking thing I mentioned. The answer lies within.

Bonus points for the Octavarium reference

[bosk1]

[hefdaddy42]

I'm afraid I will have to rule that there will be no bonus points for a reference to The Answer Lies Within.

[GuineaPig]

I'm afraid I will have to rule that there will be no bonus points for a reference to The Answer Lies Within.

Gospel truth, from the mouth of HefDaddy.

[hefdaddy42]

That's how all that crap got started several years ago.

[bosk1]

What are you on about now?

 

Code: [Select]

:hefdaddy

[hefdaddy42]

There is simply no need for fries.

[Ytse2112]

Many people turn away from religion because of all the stories they hear about the crazy mother who drowned her kids in the car because God told her to, or the Priest who diddles little boys, or the TV evangelist who takes Grandmas money promising her she'll meet her husband in the afterlife.  It's unfortunate.  Some Christians can justify that if something good happens to them, it's God's gift, but if something bad or sinful happens...... it's the Devil tempting them. 

Personaly, I believe in God.  I think that too many things have happened in my life that are not just a coinsidence.  I've never been someone who has pushed my beliefs on someone based on the fact that i'm not a "role model" Christian.  Many Christians are told that they are hippocrates because they may have a smoke or drink a beer or six.  That is why I keep my beliefs to myself in less they want to know. 

It comes down to respect.  We all need to stop judging each other.  Just because you believe in God, dosen't mean you're perfect or weak minded.  Just because you are an Atheist dosen't make you evil.  It's our actions that make us who we are.

[GuineaPig]

Many people turn away from religion because of all the stories they hear about the crazy mother who drowned her kids in the car because God told her to, or the Priest who diddles little boys, or the TV evangelist who takes Grandmas money promising her she'll meet her husband in the afterlife.  It's unfortunate.  Some Christians can justify that if something good happens to them, it's God's gift, but if something bad or sinful happens...... it's the Devil tempting them. 

Personaly, I believe in God.  I think that too many things have happened in my life that are not just a coinsidence.  I've never been someone who has pushed my beliefs on someone based on the fact that i'm not a "role model" Christian.  Many Christians are told that they are hippocrates because they may have a smoke or drink a beer or six.  That is why I keep my beliefs to myself in less they want to know. 

It comes down to respect.  We all need to stop judging each other.  Just because you believe in God, dosen't mean you're perfect or weak minded.  Just because you are an Atheist dosen't make you evil.  It's our actions that make us who we are.

I often find that some believers I know think that less observant Christians are too epicurus.

[William Wallace]

I'm afraid I will have to rule that there will be no bonus points for a reference to The Answer Lies Within.

Alright. I just wanted to point out that I inserted a DT reference into a discussion about the New Testament.

[Zook]

DT is a Christian band? OHS NOSE!

[El JoNNo]

My non-belief stems from the desire to believe what is true. I do not think I am inclined to one or the other; If I am to find any sufficient evidence for a god or gods I would believe that. I attended church for many years, pondered the existence of god(s)(mainly the Christian god) for many years. The moral logistics of humanity, god(s) and existence plagued me greatly.

However I did not heavily look into evidence of existence of god(s) until shortly after college. This was when I became familiar with the works of C.Sagan, R.Dawkins, M.Kaku, R.Feynman, N.Tyson and so many more. I couldn't get enough science and knowledge about the universe. The more I read and learned the more I confirmed that religion of any kind has no bases in reality. Not only reality but it has little moral value beyond the obvious humanism and altruism brought about by evolution.

Once I am financially secure I will be going back to school to study physics and perhaps dabble in biology. Education is expensive but the price of ignorance is not one I am willing to pay.                


Edit: didn't realize the strike through was on.

[Quadrochosis]

lol Richard Dawkins

[rumborak]

BTW, another good reason to reject religion, or rather, Abrahamic religions: Their inherently negative outlook on humanity. As a human, you suck by default and need to dig your way out of the muck. I'm rather the "in dubio pro reo" guy: You are not guilty until you do something bad yourself.
That way I also don't have to bend over backwards in my morality when I ponder how babies can go to heaven when they haven't accepted Jesus yet

rumborak

[reo73]

Theologically speaking, if you read Romans Paul would suggest that some people do not follow God/Christ because God has not elected them to do so.  I'll let you you guys chew on that one for a while.