Author Topic: Libyans protest, Gadhafi orders troops to open fire (Read 23667 times)

rumborak · « **Reply #175 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:11:06 AM »

Quote from: Nick on March 22, 2011, 09:34:12 AM

Quote from: zerogravityfat on March 22, 2011, 05:42:51 AM
US is volunteering to uphold the resolution 1973 set by UN. There is no war, this is part of sanctions to take out the no fly zone. You do that by taking out radar towers, command centers, etc.

No matter which way you slice it the US is leading military actions against another nation that we have not declared war against.

Your arguments pretend that the US is not part of the UN. It is, and this is part of a body of the international community. There's not much to be gained from the discussion if you continue arguing from the side that the US started this military action completely on its own accord.

rumborak

Nick · « **Reply #176 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:59:59 AM »

Quote from: rumborak on March 22, 2011, 10:11:06 AM

Quote from: Nick on March 22, 2011, 09:34:12 AM
Quote from: zerogravityfat on March 22, 2011, 05:42:51 AM
US is volunteering to uphold the resolution 1973 set by UN. There is no war, this is part of sanctions to take out the no fly zone. You do that by taking out radar towers, command centers, etc.

No matter which way you slice it the US is leading military actions against another nation that we have not declared war against.

Your arguments pretend that the US is not part of the UN. It is, and this is part of a body of the international community. There's not much to be gained from the discussion if you continue arguing from the side that the US started this military action completely on its own accord.

rumborak

I am not claiming the US started this on their own, I am claiming that the US involvement in the matter was determined by incorrect measures. There is not much to be gained from this discussion if people continue to equate American missiles being fired at a foreign country as anything other than an act of war.

rumborak · « **Reply #177 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:44:28 AM »

And there is a huge difference between a "war" of military humanitarian intervention based on a UN mandate, and bombing the shit out of Iraq.

rumborak

El Barto · « **Reply #178 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:48:15 AM »

There are also degrees of war which make formal declarations kind of pointless most of the time. An embargo can be considered an act of war. A blockade usually is considered an act of war. I don't think either of these have ever required congressional approval.

rumborak · « **Reply #179 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:55:37 AM »

Not only that, but an official declaration of war would completely change the intentionally limited scope of this effort.

Frankly, the criticism of "this should have been ok-ed by Congress!" is just a way of hiding behind procedure to oppose this involvement. In my humble opinion, say you oppose it and state the reasons why you do so. Don't use procedure in order to not having to justify your opinion.

rumborak

zerogravityfat · « **Reply #180 on:** March 24, 2011, 08:40:08 AM »

when people are killed by their leaders, i don't really care what the west's motivation is. they are late again just like bosnia/kosovo, but at least they are helping. though i'm pretty sure the rebels have no clue what they are doing, so i'm not sure what can be done short of killing qaddafi and his high ranking members including his son.

rumborak · « **Reply #181 on:** March 24, 2011, 09:32:23 AM »

That's the problem really. The rebels put up a valiant fight, but for the most part they're just tribes trying to get power. And they'll tell the West whatever they think the West needs to hear to give military support.

rumborak

emindead · « **Reply #182 on:** March 24, 2011, 07:28:55 PM »

https://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-21-2011/odyssey-dawn

zerogravityfat · « **Reply #183 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:26:35 AM »

operation unified protector; bad name or the worst name?

just like the operation itself, we have no fuckin clue how we are going to sell this to you as a help and not war.

emindead · « **Reply #184 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:22:59 AM »

Guys, he has been captured. Some even report that FuckFace is dead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15385955

antigoon · « **Reply #185 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:29:42 AM »

*shrug*

Al Jazeera says he's dead. Ding dong. Who's our next target? Ahmadinejad?

emindead · « **Reply #186 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:37:13 AM »

El Barto · « **Reply #187 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:43:10 AM »

That sure doesn't look like the body from all the cellphone videos.

emindead · « **Reply #188 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:46:30 AM »

https://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2011/10/2011102014201566639.html
NSFW, I guess.

El Barto · « **Reply #189 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:49:03 AM »

Not sure why they'd take the time to get him all cleaned up, just so they could drag his corpse all over the sidewalk.

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #190 on:** October 20, 2011, 11:55:58 AM »

Quote from: El Barto on October 20, 2011, 08:49:03 AM

Not sure why they'd take the time to get him all cleaned up, just so they could drag his corpse all over the sidewalk.

Probably because they want the west to recognize him in the video/photos

You can see that he took a slug to the temple, that was probably pretty messy after it first happened and in that video blood is still pouring out onto the asphalt.

pfft. he was a piece of shit. Good riddance. He got what he had coming.

Dark Castle · « **Reply #191 on:** October 20, 2011, 12:04:24 PM »

Gotta admit he went out in style, hiding in a ditch with a golden pistol

Congrats to Libya though

wasteland · « **Reply #192 on:** October 20, 2011, 12:47:55 PM »

From what I've seen, he was executed while being moved from Sirte to Misurata. In the videos where the corps is shown a bullet hole in his head is clearly visible, while he had been shown injured but conscious in his capture video a couple of minutes earlier. So, definitely an intentional kill.

Our news network raised a question: is it inevitable that the political ending of a dictatorship should be followed by his leader's phisical end?

Progmetty · « **Reply #193 on:** October 20, 2011, 01:21:04 PM »

Quote from: wasteland on October 20, 2011, 12:47:55 PM

Our news network raised a question: is it inevitable that the political ending of a dictatorship should be followed by his leader's phisical end?

Either that or exile. I don't think there are other examples in history.

Scheavo · « **Reply #194 on:** October 20, 2011, 01:53:11 PM »

Should you really expect anything less out of a leader who oppresses his people enough for armed rebellion?

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #195 on:** October 20, 2011, 02:01:53 PM »

Quote from: metty on October 20, 2011, 01:21:04 PM

Quote from: wasteland on October 20, 2011, 12:47:55 PM
Our news network raised a question: is it inevitable that the political ending of a dictatorship should be followed by his leader's phisical end?

Either that or exile. I don't think there are other examples in history.

Well, actually, Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega ended up in a United States federal prison. Not quite exile, and obviously not a physical end.

El Barto · « **Reply #196 on:** October 20, 2011, 03:58:31 PM »

What's so striking about the whole thing is that he was actually in a pretty good position at the onset of this so-called Arab Spring. Most of his people were happy and he was actually reasonably well liked. Massive oil revenues make it pretty easy to maintain popularity. If he had played it cool when the protests began he'd still be in power now, as the protesters seemed to easily be in the minority. Instead he had to be an asshole and start killing people. Bad call.

PlaysLikeMyung · « **Reply #197 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:15:10 PM »

he dead

AndyDT · « **Reply #198 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:17:42 AM »

Quote from: emindead on February 22, 2011, 07:36:42 PM

So let's get this straight... HOW THE HELL DO YOU WRITE HIS NAME?

We've got:
-Gadhafi
-Gaddafi
-Kadafi
-Qaddafi
-FuckFace

Qadhaji

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #199 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:19:33 AM »

Quote from: AndyDT on October 21, 2011, 03:17:42 AM

Quote from: emindead on February 22, 2011, 07:36:42 PM
So let's get this straight... HOW THE HELL DO YOU WRITE HIS NAME?

We've got:
-Gadhafi
-Gaddafi
-Kadafi
-Qaddafi
-FuckFace
Qadhaji

عَمَّر القَذَّافِي‎

Progmetty · « **Reply #200 on:** October 21, 2011, 06:51:45 AM »

PC what you just wrote in Arabic is pronounced Omar Elkazafi

it's Muamar not Omar.
We discussed this earlier in this thread and someone explained how news agencies like to use the names in their local dialect.
The correct Arabic pronunciation is Kazafi but Libyans local dialect replace the Ka sound with a Ga sound and that's why they call him Gaddafi in news agencies.
Like with Egyptian president Gamal Abd Elnasser, correct Arabic is Jamal but Egyptians dialect changed under British occupation to use the G as in Go sound more than the J as in Jar sound, so news agencies call him Gamal.

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #201 on:** October 21, 2011, 08:15:20 AM »

Quote from: metty on October 21, 2011, 06:51:45 AM

PC what you just wrote in Arabic is pronounced Omar Elkazafi it's Muamar not Omar.

I just copy-pasted from wiki, so blame them

emindead · « **Reply #202 on:** October 21, 2011, 09:59:26 AM »

Quote from: kirksnosehair on October 20, 2011, 02:01:53 PM

Quote from: metty on October 20, 2011, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: wasteland on October 20, 2011, 12:47:55 PM
Our news network raised a question: is it inevitable that the political ending of a dictatorship should be followed by his leader's phisical end?

Either that or exile. I don't think there are other examples in history.

Well, actually, Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega ended up in a United States federal prison. Not quite exile, and obviously not a physical end.

Wasn't he sent to France?

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #203 on:** October 21, 2011, 11:54:24 AM »

Quote from: emindead on October 21, 2011, 09:59:26 AM

Quote from: kirksnosehair on October 20, 2011, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: metty on October 20, 2011, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: wasteland on October 20, 2011, 12:47:55 PM
Our news network raised a question: is it inevitable that the political ending of a dictatorship should be followed by his leader's phisical end?

Either that or exile. I don't think there are other examples in history.

Well, actually, Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega ended up in a United States federal prison. Not quite exile, and obviously not a physical end.
Wasn't he sent to France?

Yep, he was tried there and convicted of murder, then they gave him a conditional release so that he could go back to prison in Panama.

From the Wiki:

Quote

Manuel Antonio Noriega Moreno^[2] (Spanish pronunciation: [maˈnwel noˈɾjeɣa]; born February 11, 1934) is a Panamanian politician and soldier. He was military dictator of Panama from 1983 to 1989.^[3]
The 1989 invasion of Panama by the United States removed him from power; he was captured, detained as a prisoner of war, and flown to the United States. Noriega was tried on eight counts of drug trafficking, racketeering, and money laundering in April 1992. Noriega's U.S. prison sentence ended in September 2007;^[4] pending the outcome of extradition requests by both Panama and France, for convictions in absentia for murder in 1995 and money laundering in 1999. France was granted its extradition request in April 2010. He arrived in Paris on April 27, 2010,^[5] and after a re-trial as a condition of the extradition, he was found guilty and sentenced to seven years in jail in July 2010.^[6] A conditional release was granted on September 23, 2011 for Noriega to be extradited on October 1, 2011 to serve 20 years in Panama.^[7]

antigoon · « **Reply #204 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:06:36 PM »

That Panama stuff in '89 was real nasty.

News: Track-by-track video for Untethered Angel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Co1_h0GtAw

Author Topic: Libyans protest, Gadhafi orders troops to open fire (Read 23667 times)