Where is Heaven?

[73109]

So, I'm doing some homework about the Scientific Revolution and I come to Copernicus and Brahe and Kepler. In case anyone does not know who these dudes are, they basically discovered the Earth revolved around the sun in an orbit and spun every day. Basically...what goes on in our solar system. This did not suit the church mainly because everything they had thought was a lie. "The Earth was no longer the center of God's creation. There was no longer fixed, heavenly location for God's throne. The perfection of the universe-with the earth at the center of a series of fixed, concentric, crystalline circles ion which the planets traveled-was contaminated."

Now, we are smarter, and thankfully, the church is smarter, but I ask you. If heaven exists where God places all his homies, where is it?

[TheVoxyn]

I'm not religious but I don't see why it should be a physical place. If spirits exist, why wouldn't a non-worldy place?

[73109]

This is not me trying to disprove religion. This is me actually asking for opinions.

[j]

In a deeeeluxe apartment in the skyyyyyyyyyy.

-J

[TL]

It's actually in Saskatchewan. I know, I was surprised too.

But for a serious answer, the typical notion is that it's not a physical location in this universe.

[rumborak]

When the idea of heaven was created, it was synonymous with the firmament. In German we to this day only have one word for the two separate things, heaven and sky (both are "Himmel").
What the current churches have consoled themselves to in the face of astronomical advances, is probably rather irrelevant.

rumborak

[ReaPsTA]

If heaven exists, its in a place of existence completely removed from our physical actuality.

[yeshaberto]

it is similar to asking where does the wind exist

[TheVoxyn]

When the idea of heaven was created, it was synonymous with the firmament. In German we to this day only have one word for the two separate things, heaven and sky (both are "Himmel").
What the current churches have consoled themselves to in the face of astronomical advances, is probably rather irrelevant.

rumborak

Interesting. Over here (Netherlands) we can also use that word for both heaven and the sky (hemel) but we do have a seperate word for sky as well (which is used most of the time, although 'hemel' isn't uncommon').

[GuineaPig]

it is similar to asking where does the wind exist

In any place in the atmosphere that there is a non-zero pressure gradient?

[Chino]

it is similar to asking where does the wind exist

Anywhere in the cosmos where there is an atmosphere and varying temperatures?

[yeshaberto]

can't pull anything past you guys   

[rumborak]

I can't say I followed that comparison anyway. How is wind similar to heaven?

rumborak

[TempusVox]

Scripture defines heaven as a physical place that can be seen and touched and where people with material bodies reside with God. It also reveals to us that it is a realm not confined to an area by standard dimensions, or boundaries. In Isaiah it says that God inhabits eternity, so I think this means his dwelling is beyond physical limitations, and is beyond what we are capable of undertanding that concept to be. My grandfather used to say to questions like this: "It's beyond what Earthly minds can imagine."  Good enough for me.

[yeshaberto]

I can't say I followed that comparison anyway. How is wind similar to heaven?

rumborak

in biblical language (both hebrew and greek), they are the same term.  heaven is in the "spiritual" realm which is the term for wind in both languages.  both are invisible, both are real, both are powerful, etc

[Adami]

I can't say I followed that comparison anyway. How is wind similar to heaven?

rumborak

in biblical language (both hebrew and greek), they are the same term.  heaven is in the "spiritual" realm which is the term for wind in both languages.  both are invisible, both are real, both are powerful, etc

The hebrew word for heaven is Shamaim, the hebrew word for wind is rooach. They aren't interchangable.

EDIT: Perhaps instead of Wind, you mean Sky, which would be the same word for heaven. But rumby already pointed that (for german at least).

[yeshaberto]

I was referring to term spiritual.  heaven is not a part of the physical realm, but the spiritual realm.  like the wind it is immaterial, invisible, etc

[Adami]

I was referring to term spiritual.  heaven is not a part of the physical realm, but the spiritual realm.  like the wind it is immaterial, invisible, etc

Oh I gotcha, yea wind and spirit can be used with the same word. But it's more to connect the idea of the spirit to the wind, not a spiritual realm.

[yeshaberto]

I was referring to term spiritual.  heaven is not a part of the physical realm, but the spiritual realm.  like the wind it is immaterial, invisible, etc

Oh I gotcha, yea wind and spirit can be used with the same word. But it's more to connect the idea of the spirit to the wind, not a spiritual realm.

now that you mention it, I can't think of the term "spiritual" ever being used in the tanach.  so maybe the connection is just in the new testament.  I know in greek spirit and spiritual are rooted in same term.

[rumborak]

My grandfather used to say to questions like this: "It's beyond what Earthly minds can imagine."  Good enough for me.

I heard stuff like this when I was a kid, and it was probably one of the key elements that turned me away from religion.

rumborak

[Chino]

My grandfather used to say to questions like this: "It's beyond what Earthly minds can imagine."  Good enough for me.

I heard stuff like this when I was a kid, and it was probably one of the key elements that turned me away from religion.

rumborak

Same here, believing something without even the slightest bit of evidence. It just seemed foolish to me.

[zerogravityfat]

between iran and iraq i think. i forget the exact location.

[rumborak]

My grandfather used to say to questions like this: "It's beyond what Earthly minds can imagine."  Good enough for me.

I heard stuff like this when I was a kid, and it was probably one of the key elements that turned me away from religion.

rumborak

Same here, believing something without even the slightest bit of evidence. It just seemed foolish to me.

Well that, but it was also clear that people were using their authority to shut up the questioners. And every time that happens, you know they're not too convinced of it themselves either.

rumborak

[rumborak]

between iran and iraq i think. i forget the exact location.

You're thinking Eden. That place is somewhat specified due to the rivers that comes out of Eden. Only problem is that the rivers don't run the way as described in the OT.

Besides, we all know Eden is in Missouri.

rumborak

[hefdaddy42]

@ the OP: there is no answer to your question.

[Chino]

@ the OP: there is no answer to your question.

If it exists, it has to be somewhere....

[hefdaddy42]

@ the OP: there is no answer to your question.

If it exists, it has to be somewhere....

Does love exist?  Where is it?

[Chino]

Love isn't a place in which we are suppose to spend enternity. Love is a feeling, an emotion, an instinct embedded in the genome of every human. It can also be a verb used to describe the act of a penis entering a vagina.

[bosk1]

It can also be a verb used to describe the act of a penis entering a vagina.

I think we've just inadvertently stumbled upon the most concise statement explaining why you are still single.

[Sigz]

@ the OP: there is no answer to your question.

If it exists, it has to be somewhere....

I don't see why this has to be true at all, we're talking about a 'location' where souls go, not physical people.

[Chino]

If God is real, and he lives in heaven, heaven must be real.

[bosk1]

No one said he or haven't aren't real--only that they aren't physical.  Do you not see the difference?

[Chino]

I don't see the difference. I'm not being a dick, I truely don't see the difference.

[rumborak]

I agree with the last few posters here actually. If whatever goes to heaven isn't physical (given that the body remains, that is then to be expected), then heaven doesn't have to be a physical place.
My point is rather that that definition of heaven is a fairly recent one. Before that, heaven *did* have a location, and it was in the sky. Christianity had a lot of "borrowing" from Greek mythology, and the concept of Hades vs. Heaven was one of those.

rumborak

[bosk1]

My point is rather that that definition of heaven is a fairly recent one. Before that, heaven *did* have a location, and it was in the sky. Christianity had a lot of "borrowing" from Greek mythology, and the concept of Hades vs. Heaven was one of those.

rumborak, I have to disagree with this.  With all due respect, you are confusing Catholic Middle Ages doctrine with what writings that pre-date that doctrine (both pre-NT Jewish scripture and the NT writings) actually say.