Author Topic: MP's Snare (Read 12031 times)

ricky · « **Reply #35 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:46:17 PM »

Quote from: jsem on February 20, 2011, 03:09:52 PM

Where exactly in the song?

ACOS, one minute in.

DarkLord_Lalinc · « **Reply #36 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:14:36 PM »

BC&SL has the best drum sound from Portnoy, IMO.

rumborak · « **Reply #37 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:01:55 PM »

I remember hearing Snakes & Arrows for the first time and thought "Holy shit, that's what drums are supposed to sound like."
Have to be honest, since then I can't get very excited about MP's drum sound, be it snare or whatever.

rumborak

i_am_here_ · « **Reply #38 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:19:10 PM »

Definantly TOT and ACOS, and maybe SDOIT

Gadough · « **Reply #39 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:43:26 PM »

Quote from: Fuzzboy on February 20, 2011, 02:26:03 PM

Quote from: Dimitrius on February 20, 2011, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: rumborak on February 20, 2011, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: Mladen on February 20, 2011, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: Zydar on February 20, 2011, 06:50:46 AM
Quote from: Demi Zenith on February 20, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Yeah. No matter if you hit the snare soft or hard, it produces the same sound. Popular in the 80s for instance.
Oh, okay. I dunno, it sounds nice to me.

Same here, never bothered me, even when I knew about it. I thought it was rather bothering that MP was ranting so much on their own best album because of it.

rumborak

The ghost notes on LtL sound horrible because of the trigger.
fuuuckkk.. I never noticed the ghost notes on that song. Now I can't un-hear them.

Forgive me, I'm not a musician, but WTF is a ghost note?

Fuzzboy · « **Reply #40 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:49:55 PM »

Quote from: Gadough on February 20, 2011, 05:43:26 PM

Quote from: Fuzzboy on February 20, 2011, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: Dimitrius on February 20, 2011, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: rumborak on February 20, 2011, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: Mladen on February 20, 2011, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: Zydar on February 20, 2011, 06:50:46 AM
Quote from: Demi Zenith on February 20, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Yeah. No matter if you hit the snare soft or hard, it produces the same sound. Popular in the 80s for instance.
Oh, okay. I dunno, it sounds nice to me.

Same here, never bothered me, even when I knew about it. I thought it was rather bothering that MP was ranting so much on their own best album because of it.

rumborak

The ghost notes on LtL sound horrible because of the trigger.
fuuuckkk.. I never noticed the ghost notes on that song. Now I can't un-hear them.

Forgive me, I'm not a musician, but WTF is a ghost note?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TAUHxiBwxQ
at around 2:40 the ghost notes are the snare hits in between the "main"/loudest snare hits

Dimitrius · « **Reply #41 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:49:57 PM »

Quote from: Gadough on February 20, 2011, 05:43:26 PM

Quote from: Fuzzboy on February 20, 2011, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: Dimitrius on February 20, 2011, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: rumborak on February 20, 2011, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: Mladen on February 20, 2011, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: Zydar on February 20, 2011, 06:50:46 AM
Quote from: Demi Zenith on February 20, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Yeah. No matter if you hit the snare soft or hard, it produces the same sound. Popular in the 80s for instance.
Oh, okay. I dunno, it sounds nice to me.

Same here, never bothered me, even when I knew about it. I thought it was rather bothering that MP was ranting so much on their own best album because of it.

rumborak

The ghost notes on LtL sound horrible because of the trigger.
fuuuckkk.. I never noticed the ghost notes on that song. Now I can't un-hear them.

Forgive me, I'm not a musician, but WTF is a ghost note?

Put LtL at 1:13, you hear those faint little snare parts? That's a ghost note.

MykeHavoc · « **Reply #42 on:** February 20, 2011, 06:18:35 PM »

I really don't hear what all the complaints are about. I don't think the "ghost" notes sound bad.

mittinagus · « **Reply #43 on:** February 20, 2011, 06:42:22 PM »

I & W was their signature sound and best sounding cd even if MP didn't liked the snare sound...

Tin

Metabog · « **Reply #44 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:45:24 PM »

Awake. Perfect sound, I don't know how they pulled off that awesome tone. It's like a combination of the snappyness from ACOS and the reverby samplage from IW. The drum sound in general on Awake is just so great, and the playing as well, so varied, so many different little details and effects.

FlashCE · « **Reply #45 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:05:55 PM »

What's wrong with the ghost notes? That's kinda how they're supposed to sound like...

Exodus · « **Reply #46 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:12:16 PM »

I actually liked the snare triggers on I&W. For some reason, they make the drums sound more 'dreamy' (probably not the best word to describe it) to me, which fits well with the sound of the whole album.

But my favorite would probably be Awake or ACOS.

rumborak · « **Reply #47 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:35:58 PM »

It's one of those things, sure, when it gets pointed out you'll notice it. But frankly, IAW is an early 90s product, and there are many other aspects on the album that scream that (including JLBs singing). I find the triggered snares less of a "problem" (not that there's really a problem with IAW).

rumborak

Dimitrius · « **Reply #48 on:** February 20, 2011, 09:09:55 PM »

No doubt about that, the keyboards in Surrounded sound so 90s! Almost to the point of being cheesy!

LieLowTheWantedMan · « **Reply #49 on:** February 20, 2011, 09:10:51 PM »

Awake.

SystematicThought · « **Reply #50 on:** February 20, 2011, 09:30:43 PM »

What about live album? What live album has your favorite snare?

I actually have to say I really liked Chaos In Motion's snare. That or Score.

Weren't the ones in Live at the Marquee triggered as well?

FretMuppet · « **Reply #51 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:22:53 AM »

Score all the way...

Now that I think about it, I don't know whether I like Octavarium's fresh sounding drums (kinda like Score too) or BC&SL's juicy sound, which is quite prominent on the Stargazer track

olliemedsy · « **Reply #52 on:** February 24, 2011, 03:39:55 PM »

I love the snare on awake and ACOS like everyone else, but people may disagree but I like the snare on FII as well, really resonates

bosk1 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:11:46 PM »

Quote from: Demi Zenith on February 20, 2011, 06:48:07 AM

Quote from: Mladen on February 20, 2011, 06:27:04 AM
Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 20, 2011, 05:41:06 AM
Quote from: Mladen on February 20, 2011, 05:08:06 AM
Awake has a great snare sound. Also, what's wrong about snare drum on Images and words?
It's a sampled trigger, not a "real" snare.
Okay, I guess I'm a bit stupid for drums. Can you explain me what that means? If you don't feel like it, that's okay.

Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, that's not true. The "triggered" snare does not replace the actual snare hit with a sample at all. It triggers a sound gate that basically "opens" the snare mic for only a short, predetermined amount of time so the snare does not ring and all the snare hits sound almost identical (but, to many, that means they also sound cold, processed, and mechanical). It also makes the drums a lot easier for whoever is doing the mixing because you don't get snare hits blending together with each other or with other things, so it is easier to isolate and work with the snare sound. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

Quote from: rumborak on February 20, 2011, 05:01:55 PM

I remember hearing Snakes & Arrows for the first time and thought "Holy shit, that's what drums are supposed to sound like."
Have to be honest, since then I can't get very excited about MP's drum sound, be it snare or whatever.

rumborak

Never been a Rush fan, so I never heard S&A. But I had the identical reaction when I heard Jimmy DeGrasso's drums on the Megadeth album The World Needs A Hero. Not sure if you're familiar with it since I can't recall you EVER posting about Megadeth before, but it's worth checking out for the drums alone (although most fans don't much like the album as a whole and seem to rank it pretty low in the discography).

Adami · « **Reply #54 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:20:21 PM »

Quote from: bösk1 on February 24, 2011, 07:11:46 PM

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, that's not true. The "triggered" snare does not replace the actual snare hit with a sample at all. It triggers a sound gate that basically "opens" the snare mic for only a short, predetermined amount of time so the snare does not ring and all the snare hits sound almost identical (but, to many, that means they also sound cold, processed, and mechanical). It also makes the drums a lot easier for whoever is doing the mixing because you don't get snare hits blending together with each other or with other things, so it is easier to isolate and work with the snare sound. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

No. Demi is correct. Triggering is basically one of two things. Pre-triggering, or post triggering. Pre-triggering is where they put a device on the drum that read the vibrations of the hit. It then translates those vibrations into an electronic signal that is then assigned to any sound you sound you want. Post triggering is taking the already recording drum hit, and replacing it with any sound you want. Basically you pick the volume level of the hit, and anything that passes that volume gets replaced.

I have no clue if portnoys I&W tracks were pre or post. However given the technology of the days, I'd say pre. However when they released the remixes, they just post triggered every drum with samples of his current drumset.

bosk1 · « **Reply #55 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:21:51 PM »

Somebody other than Adami please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

Adami · « **Reply #56 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:22:58 PM »

Quote from: bösk1 on February 24, 2011, 07:21:51 PM

Somebody other than Adami please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but your outward cruelness to me is getting a little troubling.

bosk1 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:28:36 PM »

I'm not being sarcastic, but I am joking. I just want a second opinion because I have a very clear recollection of what I said. So either (1) I am right, (2) I completely misunderstood what I was told way back when, or (3) I was told incorrect information. I'm fine if #2 or #3 are the case, but I just want to make sure. I know what you do for a living, so I actually give your opinion on the subject a lot of weight. I just want a second one because, again, I was under the strong impression that it was how I described it above.

Adami · « **Reply #58 on:** February 24, 2011, 07:31:05 PM »

As I said, I'm not sure what Portnoy did on the original recordings. I just cleared up what triggering was, and what they did on the remixes. If they did something else to the snare (even though it really sounds like pre-triggering), then it's not called triggering. It would just be heavy gating.

Getting every hit to sound equally loud and identical is done through triggering however.

Dublagent66 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 25, 2011, 07:23:28 AM »

Awake was the best. FII was the worst.

walmartsecurity · « **Reply #60 on:** February 25, 2011, 10:20:46 AM »

I like the I&W snare because it adds a unique and necessary vibe to the whole album that helps make it what it is. I also like the TOT snare, it's heavy with a lot of impact just like the vast majority of the disc. Lastly I think BC&SL has maybe the most balanced and clear sounding drums on a DT album in maybe 10 years or more. It doesn't overpower but it doesn't sit back either and every nuance can be heard with clarity. The slight reverb on the drums makes them sound better as well.

Honorable mention to the ACOS snare. Tuned high, very natural sounding, fits with the tone of the other instruments very well. I'm not sure what my favorite snare is, they all have their own kind of "mood"

scoutmasterdave · « **Reply #61 on:** February 25, 2011, 11:28:38 AM »

Quote from: bösk1 on February 24, 2011, 07:11:46 PM

Quote from: Demi Zenith on February 20, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, that's not true. The "triggered" snare does not replace the actual snare hit with a sample at all. It triggers a sound gate that basically "opens" the snare mic for only a short, predetermined amount of time so the snare does not ring and all the snare hits sound almost identical (but, to many, that means they also sound cold, processed, and mechanical). It also makes the drums a lot easier for whoever is doing the mixing because you don't get snare hits blending together with each other or with other things, so it is easier to isolate and work with the snare sound. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

I'm fairly certain it's a triggered sample, both because of interviews I recall reading back in the day, and the (awful IMO) absolute consistency of the sound.

scoutmasterdave · « **Reply #62 on:** February 25, 2011, 11:32:21 AM »

And BTW, the piccolo snare MP used on ACoS is my fave.

mrjazzguitar · « **Reply #63 on:** February 25, 2011, 11:33:55 AM »

Six Degrees, followed by SFAM, ACOS, and Awake.

I think Six degrees is overall the best sounding album

fadetoblackdude7 · « **Reply #64 on:** February 25, 2011, 01:54:24 PM »

Falling Into Infinity

Same with JMX's bass tone.

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #65 on:** February 25, 2011, 02:00:16 PM »

Quote from: bösk1 on February 24, 2011, 07:28:36 PM

I'm not being sarcastic, but I am joking. I just want a second opinion because I have a very clear recollection of what I said. So either (1) I am right, (2) I completely misunderstood what I was told way back when, or (3) I was told incorrect information. I'm fine if #2 or #3 are the case, but I just want to make sure. I know what you do for a living, so I actually give your opinion on the subject a lot of weight. I just want a second one because, again, I was under the strong impression that it was how I described it above.

Adami is 100% correct.

Accelerando · « **Reply #66 on:** February 25, 2011, 02:02:22 PM »

I'm going to have to go with Six Degrees, but I&W and TOT is coming close

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #67 on:** February 25, 2011, 02:05:17 PM »

Quote from: rumborak on February 20, 2011, 05:01:55 PM

I remember hearing Snakes & Arrows for the first time and thought "Holy shit, that's what drums are supposed to sound like."
Have to be honest, since then I can't get very excited about MP's drum sound, be it snare or whatever.

rumborak

Hm. I mean look, I think it's a very good drum mix. The snare is nice, and the kick is a bit higher quality than most of what's out there. I also think the overall kit pumps very well and the tom mixes are well above average. But the hihat sound is really mediocre and the overheads don't thrill me. It works very well in the album, but I feel like I've heard better drum mixes, but artistically and technically.

bosk1 · « **Reply #68 on:** February 25, 2011, 02:16:52 PM »

Quote from: ReaPsTA on February 25, 2011, 02:00:16 PM

Quote from: bösk1 on February 24, 2011, 07:28:36 PM
I'm not being sarcastic, but I am joking. I just want a second opinion because I have a very clear recollection of what I said. So either (1) I am right, (2) I completely misunderstood what I was told way back when, or (3) I was told incorrect information. I'm fine if #2 or #3 are the case, but I just want to make sure. I know what you do for a living, so I actually give your opinion on the subject a lot of weight. I just want a second one because, again, I was under the strong impression that it was how I described it above.

Adami is 100% correct.

Well, shoot. Guess I've been wrong all these years.

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #69 on:** February 25, 2011, 02:18:36 PM »

Quote from: bösk1 on February 25, 2011, 02:16:52 PM

Well, shoot. Guess I've been wrong all these years.

Always disappointing. In fairness, gating snares does happen.

My question - How could you listen to the I&W snare and think that was a real snare sound?

News: Video of online chat between fans and members of Dream Theater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx8cLlXnHpA&feature=youtu.be (*no chickens were harmed during the filming of this chat)

Author Topic: MP's Snare (Read 12031 times)