david prater =/

[syron0615]

I actually love the triggered snare. it blends in very well with the albums sound. but i HATE the snare on ACOS. if mikes natural snare I&W snare sounded like the one from ACOS, i can see why prater had it triggered. it would have sounded really weird on I&W.

Also, why did JLB and prater almost fist fight?

[icysk8r]

It is an absolute fact that the issue of Prater triggering the snare sample was never a problem for anyone from the band, record label or band management during the entire DT Atco demos/IAW recording process.  I was there and I saw the whole thing from start to finish.  Prater had produced, engineered and mixed 3 songs for Derek Oliver (Atco demos) using the exact same kick and snare sample.  Furthermore, no one complained about anything until long after IAW was released.  Remember, in 1991, there were no computers such as Pro-Tools, Logic or Cubase.  These recordings took place at least 6 years before anything like that was possible.  Today, if you want to use a drummer's natural drum sound you can do so in a drastically less problematic manner than with what Prater had to work with.  Considering the record was made at all (much less sounding as good as it does) still blows my mind.[/color]

so the book, according to people on here, is just a lie?

[emindead]

Who are you and please keep telling us more details.

[havona]

Unfortunately, Prater's responses to Rich Wilson's questions are 100% accurate factually, however, MP's rebuttals are in almost all cases completely without merit.  At times even wildly so.  It seems each and every time MP is queried he spews so much venom and vitriol a mature reader has to question his objectivity.  Why he is so bitter has us all completely flummoxed.

Remember this, I was an eyewitness.  I swear Prater's the one in the right.  For the last 17 years MP has abused his bully pulpit and has never been taken to task by an objective 3rd party.  What is even more pathetic is that his vast legion of MP wannabes anxiously line up to gorge themselves on every delicious morsel drooling out of his mouth.  The problem is, 99% of the time he isn't anywhere near telling the truth.

[Super Dude]

As interesting as this all sounds, we'll need some real confirmation.  Otherwise, it just sounds like you're trolling behind a disguise.  Nothing personal, just these merciless attacks you're sending against MP seem like nothing short of troll activity.

[havona]

As interesting as this all sounds, we'll need some real confirmation.  Otherwise, it just sounds like you're trolling behind a disguise.  Nothing personal, just these merciless attacks you're sending against MP seem like nothing short of troll activity.

Super Dude, thank you for illustrating my point.

As the one person (assistant engineer) in this conversation who was actually there and can truthfully attest to Prater's account, you take offense with my position yet refer to the support for your position in the plural ("We'll need some confirmation").  Are you on the DTF board of governor's?  Do you represent the rank and file who support MP's uncorroborated accusations.  I gave you my qualification.  Call Chris Bubacz or Doug Oberkircher from Bear Tracks if you can find them.  The place was dismantled years ago.  They'll tell you the same thing.

As for merciless attacks, MP has done nothing but eviscerate Prater verbally for the last 17 years for what appears to be petty and childish offenses.  For me, Prater was a righteous boss who always tipped lavishly and took care of me when I had to log ridiculous hours.  We enjoyed countless wonderful dinners at BonGiovanni's and Mount Fuji in Suffern yet I never had to spend a single dime.

So, there you have it.  I'm not trolling.  I'm testifying.  And you don't like it because you might just be wrong.  I have watched from the sidelines for 17 years as guys perhaps like yourself have unloaded as many vicious attacks against Prater as your heart has desired.  However, the one time someone has the balls to shut you down, he gets the same marginalizing tactics Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity use to denigrate their opponents.

Prater is a good guy and deserves better, but, he won't take up for himself.  There are, however, some of us who know him that have had all of it that we can eat.  MP has been childish and unfair.  Those of you who enjoy this type of senseless drama need to look in the mirror at your life and ask how you have served others in a higher cause before you continue to assail Prater's good intentions.  With his work on IAW and ACOS, all that Prater did was try and make records that would stand the test of time and perhaps in doing so help make DT et al rich beyond their wildest dreams. 

[BlobVanDam]

........Prater?

[KevShmev]

Steve Regina was the assistant engineer on I&W, so that is who you are?

[orcus116]

With his work on IAW and ACOS, all that Prater did was try and make records that would stand the test of time and perhaps in doing so help make DT et al rich beyond their wildest dreams. 

Stand the test of time? I'll agree 100%. The things I heard Prater did, like keep some solos Petrucci wanted to throw away, helped tremendously for both those records. As far as being rich I'm not so sure, though Pull Me Under is still the closest they've come to a hit single so I guess his heart was in the right place for that.

And not to add much to the trigger snare argument but I can't think of a metal record nowadays that doesn't have triggered snare. I don't know why this is bitched about so much.

[ack44]

ACOS is I&W without the trigger and it sounds great.

[orcus116]

I know. One of favorites.

[ariich]

........Prater?

My thoughts exactly.

I know. One of favorites.

The whole thing?

[j]

........Prater?

Steve Regina was the assistant engineer on I&W, so that is who you are?

Wonder if he'll come back and answer this question.

David Prater fellatio

I honestly don't give a shit about any of this, but can you seriously blame anyone here for being skeptical?  Personally, I don't have an opinion about Prater one way or the other, and I suspect a lot of people here are like that.  Take it easy; you're only losing credibility by getting all upset about it.

-J

[BlobVanDam]

btw, if you type "i hate david prater" into Google, this thread is on the first page, but had you visited the forum, this thread was ended a month ago. Coincidence? Find out after the break........

[tri.ad]

Interesting points and point of view, but I'll believe them when we know who we are dealing with.

[hefdaddy42]

Steve Regina was the assistant engineer on I&W, so that is who you are?

[perfey]

Steve Regina was the assistant engineer on I&W, so that is who you are?

havona , evidence? I think so  

[Rich Wilson]

Try . . .

https://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:4agNA4CSXswJ:www.myspace.com/davidpratermusic+havona+David+prater&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[Perpetual Change]

Try . . .

https://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:4agNA4CSXswJ:www.myspace.com/davidpratermusic+havona+David+prater&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

The possibility that that could have been Steve Regina is very promising and introspective.

The fact that it's probably Prater tooting his own horn makes the whole thing kind of sad.

I think Dream Theater's best work was done with Shirley at the helm. They really could use him back- though I admit I think they're doing fine on their own. Iron Maiden's "A Matter of Life and Death" is among the best albums I have ever heard.

And not to add much to the trigger snare argument but I can't think of a metal record nowadays that doesn't have triggered snare. I don't know why this is bitched about so much.

I don't know- I've never heard a snare triggered like that before. It's too much triggering, or something.

[Super Dude]

 

[bosk1]

A couple of points about this thread/discussion:

#1:  There are certainly valid points of discussion to be made about Prater's involvement in Dream Theater's career.  You can love some of the things he did, hate some, feel like it is a mixed bag, or something else.  These are all fine points for discussion.  But the poll having choices of "like david prater," "don't like david prater," etc. make it personal, and there's really no room for that here.  Discuss what he did and leave it at that.

Point #2: 

Unfortunately, Prater's responses to Rich Wilson's questions are 100% accurate factually, however, MP's rebuttals are in almost all cases completely without merit.  At times even wildly so.  It seems each and every time MP is queried he spews so much venom and vitriol a mature reader has to question his objectivity.  Why he is so bitter has us all completely flummoxed.

Remember this, I was an eyewitness.  I swear Prater's the one in the right.  For the last 17 years MP has abused his bully pulpit and has never been taken to task by an objective 3rd party.  What is even more pathetic is that his vast legion of MP wannabes anxiously line up to gorge themselves on every delicious morsel drooling out of his mouth.  The problem is, 99% of the time he isn't anywhere near telling the truth.

Here's the thing, havona.  This is, first and foremost, a forum for Dream Theater fans.  Because more fans than not (1) appreciate Mike Portnoy and, as fans, do eagerly take in a lot of what he says, and (2) do NOT like some of the choices Mr. Prater made on the Images & Words album, there is naturally going to be some negativity expressed on boards like this one.  If Mr. Prater can't be bothered to speak up on the subject, I don't see the need for others to come rushing to his defense.  It is great to have commentary from someone who was actually there, if indeed you were (forgive me for being skeptical, but this is the Internet, and anyone can say they are anybody).  If you have some direct knowledge of some of what went on, great.  Join the discussion and add some great perpective from the other side.  But I warn you:  tread carefully.  Do NOT come onto these boards and call Mike Portnoy a liar or call his integrity into question.  Doing that is a violation of the rules.  Are the rules biased and overprotective of the members of Dream Theater, while perhaps not oferring the same level of protection for criticism of others?  Yeah, they are.  Again, it is a Dream Theater forum.  If Mr. Prater has his own forum out there, he is welcome to have a "no Prater-bashing" rule if he chooses.  Keep your statements factual.  Give us whatever facts you have as you see them and leave the personal attacks at the door so we can draw out own conclusions.  For one thing, it makes your arguments weak if you are short on facts and long on personal attacks.  For another, personal attacks and flaming of the band members is against the forum rules and will get you banned from this place.  And unlike Super Dude, I am the DTF "board of directors," or however you put it.  So I hope you heed this warning.  Again, if you have an opposing perspective to offer, that is great and is in fact welcome.  But the next personal attack against a bandmember is not welcome and earns you a one-way trip to the exit door.

[TempusVox]

 

[orcus116]

I know. One of favorites.

The whole thing?

"I accidentally" came to my head the second I saw this. But anyways I don't really mind the whole album, tbh. Well maybe except the Zeppelin medley.

[Weymolith]

Try . . .

https://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:4agNA4CSXswJ:www.myspace.com/davidpratermusic+havona+David+prater&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Well, guess that answers Blob's question.

Hi David!

[hefdaddy42]

Hi, David!

[Dream Team]

Busted!

[Super Dude]

It is great to have commentary from someone who was actually there, if indeed you were (forgive me for being skeptical, but this is the Internet, and anyone can say they are anybody).

So yes, Havona, I want you to see this post.  I was not attacking you personally or calling your opinion into question.  Bosk simply articulated it better than me: anyone can say they're anyone on the internet, so when you say you worked with Prater personally, it's logical and in fact smart for me to doubt your claimed identity.  That's why I asked you to prove it.  Nothing against you.

[Phantasmatron]

It is great to have commentary from someone who was actually there, if indeed you were (forgive me for being skeptical, but this is the Internet, and anyone can say they are anybody).

So yes, Havona, I want you to see this post.  I was not attacking you personally or calling your opinion into question.  Bosk simply articulated it better than me: anyone can say they're anyone on the internet, so when you say you worked with Prater personally, it's logical and in fact smart for me to doubt your claimed identity.  That's why I asked you to prove it.  Nothing against you.

For example, I was the chief cameraman for NASA when they faked the moon landing. 

You may very well be who you say you are, Havona, but we tend to like Mr. Portnoy around here, and if we're going to believe some of the mean (but possibly true) things you've said about him, we'd like to have a solid reason to trust what you say.  That's all.

[Perpetual Change]

I was actually there during the mixing too, and I can say de facto that everything havona is saying is complete bull! Call up anyone of the guys in DT, they'll tell you the same thing.

[emindead]

Man. Don't you just love these forums when these kind of things happen?

I love DTF.

And as for David: Please keep talking, obeying Bosk rules of course, but keep telling us more info. I'm really looking forward for what you have to say.

[icysk8r]

Havona.  No one said anything about you, or said anything [that I saw]  that was offensive.  Also, no one got defensive because they "are wrong".  All we are saying is that anyone could pretend to be anyone.  While you may not be pretending, we don't know that for sure.  I could join this forum from another computer and say i am John Myung, and some could believe that is the truth.  While I wouldn't do that and that is just a waste of time, most would surely enough say "Are you really JM?  Do you have proof?"

When you say you worked with Prater and DT, but do not give any proof to back this up, not many will believe you.  i am not personally attacking you, I am just stating that it is not believable, and until you give undeniable evidence that you are who you say you are, almost no one will believe you 100%.

[AcidLameLTE]

Imagine if Mike Portnoy joined to argue back. That would be pretty epic. [/color]

[icysk8r]

Well the assistant engineer [apparently]  joined to argue, so we can hope for the best! 

[AcidLameLTE]

I don't know why he felt the need to come on here and bitch. The people who don't like him are in the minority.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah. According to the info we have, most fans don't even care about the whole thing- and most of the ones that do actually like his work. So bravo, David.