If there was no religion.

[CountVoorhees]

The world would be a much better place, with less conflicts and wars.

[rumborak]

For the most part, wars aren't really fought over religion itself. They're wars of the cultural circles they draw. We're glorified cavemen, we have tribal squabbles, and we choose whichever common denominator suits us best at a given time.

rumborak

[ClairvoyantCat]

Two scenarios involving the lack of religion:

1) If there was no God, and humans were left to their own devices, then religion would arise, as evidenced by our present world.  You would have to alter human nature to ensure that religion did not exist.

So, you're saying that we are not already left to our own devices?  I think what your describing is what is the case currently.  We've been left to our own devices to explain what the hell dropped us here on Earth, with a few key choices to make based on products of our own knowledge that we have ourselves proclaimed to be deciding factors in eternal damnation and the likes of that.  I would say we are quite left to our own devices already, but I see no reason why it is an absolute in human nature for religion.  Every religion has influences in a previous one and would not exist/would be severely different if the ones before it had not existed.  So, back at the very root of it all (way, way back) if we had never gotten the idea of eternal life and eternal damnation and whatnot to stick so heavily wouldn't we be at least possible to have a much different perspective?  Such as an agnostic one, for example?

[j]

But those are inevitable consequences of human nature.  We ask questions and we fear the unknown.  Regardless of belief, religion is a vehicle to provide answers to our unanswerable questions and put our fears of death and the unknown at ease.

Were history to start all over and take a different course, the details might differ, but the overall result would not, I think.  Maybe parallels of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam would not exist.  But ethics would probably evolve and develop in a very similar fashion, we would still philosophize, and we would still kill each other and commit atrocities alongside acts of good and self-sacrifice.

-J

[ClairvoyantCat]

But those are inevitable consequences of human nature.  We ask questions and we fear the unknown.  Regardless of belief, religion is a vehicle to provide answers to our unanswerable questions and put our fears of death and the unknown at ease.

Were history to start all over and take a different course, the details might differ, but the overall result would not, I think.  Maybe parallels of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam would not exist.  But ethics would probably evolve and develop in a very similar fashion, we would still philosophize, and we would still kill each other and commit atrocities alongside acts of good and self-sacrifice.

-J

I don't doubt that, if the altercations did not change the way secular government and society function, we would still find ways and reasons to kill each other.  But, to me, the idea of eternal life in a place unlike earth, where "souls" somehow find a way to pass the time for the rest of eternity seems a bit of a stretch at best to me, so it seems entirely possible to me that if religion was reintroduced at all it could end up as something that would edge people on to kill each other a lot less, maybe if eternal salvation did not hang in the balance.  I think ethics, however, would develop completely differently.  There are so many points of reference where our ethics could branch out depending on religion.  You have to remember that, while we've installed all of our ethics as derivative from our own thoughts, most of them were derived based on religion, so any presumptions about how ethics could end up could easily be turned inside out by that fact.  As I said, there's no measure to where we end up, worse or better, with out it, but I wouldn't doubt the huge amount of influence religion has had on ethics and acts and the way the world has turned out in general. 

[j]

I don't doubt that, if the altercations did not change the way secular government and society function, we would still find ways and reasons to kill each other.  But, to me, the idea of eternal life in a place unlike earth, where "souls" somehow find a way to pass the time for the rest of eternity seems a bit of a stretch at best to me, so it seems entirely possible to me that if religion was reintroduced at all it could end up as something that would edge people on to kill each other a lot less, maybe if eternal salvation did not hang in the balance.

But like I said, a fear of death is natural.  It was not introduced by religion; religion is a *solution* to it.  Yeah the details (souls, angels, "heaven" as we envision it, etc.) might very well differ.  But the concept of an afterlife?  That idea long predates "organized religion", especially as we know it.  And I can see why: what an appealing thought, that we can live on forever with all of our passed family, friends, and loved ones in eternal happiness!

I think ethics, however, would develop completely differently.  There are so many points of reference where our ethics could branch out depending on religion.  You have to remember that, while we've installed all of our ethics as derivative from our own thoughts, most of them were derived based on religion, so any presumptions about how ethics could end up could easily be turned inside out by that fact.  As I said, there's no measure to where we end up, worse or better, with out it, but I wouldn't doubt the huge amount of influence religion has had on ethics and acts and the way the world has turned out in general. 

Sure, yours and my ethics are partially shaped by religion and what we've been exposed to.  But how did those ethical ideas come about initially?  Judeo-Christian ethics were influenced by ideas, societies, philosophers, etc. that came before them.  And what about codes of ethics that developed relatively independently of the same influences, like some of the major eastern religions?

I think the *basic* guidelines for morals or ethics ultimately come from what we decide we think is best for humanity, and what we learn increases our survival and quality of life along the way.

-J

[rumborak]

People need to get out of their head that religion changes the ethical behavior of people. It doesn't, it changes their morals,  but that's something different. The Ten Commandments are broken as much by religious people as they are by atheists.

rumborak

[sonatafanica]

If there was no religion I wouldn't have to deal with teeming masses of violent christians in their SUVs fighting their way through traffic to get to the church down the road from me every Sunday.


Also, some great classical music and art would not have been made.

[Vin2112]

In order to properly answer this question you'd have to pre-suppose an answer for "What would fill the void? Humanity seemingly has an innate (evolutionary?) need for credulity or, in other words -  a need to believe in bullshit!  If the answer is simply *via other forms of supernatural belief* we'd pretty much wind up with a world very similar we currently live in.  If, on the other hand, people actually started to use their brains and began thinking skeptically, rationally, and adhering to a *scientific method* way of thinking, conditions for an infinitely more liveable world would naturally ensue.

[Progmetty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mtGnnszc

[El JoNNo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mtGnnszc

Wow, I laughed my ass off when I saw that on T.V. Obviously it is exaggerated, but funny.

[TL]

The world would be a much better place, with less conflicts and wars.

Most 'religious' conflicts throughout history were actually over something else, with religion thrown in to make the conflict seem more 'noble'. Northern Ireland? The Irish were tired of being oppressed by the British. The Crusades? Trade routes/economic reasons.

Let's also not forget that the two biggest mass-murders of the 20th century were atheists. I'm not saying atheists lack morals or anything stupid like that; I'm saying with or without religion, mankind is a terribly violent species. It's in our nature.

[El JoNNo]

The world would be a much better place, with less conflicts and wars.

Most 'religious' conflicts throughout history were actually over something else, with religion thrown in to make the conflict seem more 'noble'. Northern Ireland? The Irish were tired of being oppressed by the British. The Crusades? Trade routes/economic reasons.

Let's also not forget that the two biggest mass-murders of the 20th century were atheists. I'm not saying atheists lack morals or anything stupid like that; I'm saying with or without religion, mankind is a terribly violent species. It's in our nature.

Ugh this agian...