[Historical] Hypothetical Question

[Progmetty]

I've been wondering about this for a while, during my studying of Allied and Axis countries conditions prior to World War II; I found that German architecture, mechanical engineering and general technological advancements were in rapid growth compared to the rest of the world.
Some examples: Germany had built the world first highway in the 30's, been a pioneer of animal rights protection laws and the research of Dr. Von Braun the rocket scientist who later became the main reason the U.S won the space race against Russia.
If Germany had stopped making territorial conquests after Anschluss and the Sudetenland (the annexation of German populated countries/areas into the German Reich), if the Munich Agreement signed by England, France, Italy and Germany in September 1938 was indeed the end of any war threat in Europe, if the NSDAP did not let the racial discrimination urges take them to the point of extreme measures, in my imagination that would have led to Germany being a world power superior to the U.S and Russia in economy and military up to the present day.
Aside from a possible war in the 60's between Germany and the Soviet Union (and other communist countries), with Germany's alliance of the U.S and England; I couldn't picture what other trouble could have faced Germany in this hypothetical scenario, any thoughts to share?

Note: As I mentioned I've been reading a whole lot the last few years about every aspect of WWII, the state of the nations involved in the war before, during and after, there's no end in sight to the information about that subject and I'm curious how much of it do the nations involved teach in schools to be able to know all this stuff, recently for the first time I've been wanting to have such historical discussions with you guys, I know I will understand more through it, but been worried the whole subject is too "old" and redundant for you to find interest to discuss it, well this is my try and if it found interest more threads will be coming and if not it will lay to rest with this one.

[Fiery Winds]

Ignoring the butterfly effect, I agree Germany would be a greater power than the US.  Considering WW2 provided a much needed economic stimulus to the US, the great depression would probably have continued much longer.

[jsem]

Germany is the largest european economy atm. They'd be so far ahead it's not even funny.

Edit: Considering that there were some elements of human rights and none of the propaganda ofc.

[Super Dude]

"If the NSDAP did not let the racial discrimination urges take them to the point of extreme measures."

I hate to say it, but a hate-based agenda was in the program from the very beginning.  Just look at Hitler's memoirs, and, whether against the Jews or someone else, his vision for Germany's future excluded a lot of people, and not just by telling them to leave.

[rumborak]

I don't think Germany's position would be particularly different from where it is now really. We had the Wirtschaftswunder, and that equalized a lot of stuff.

rumborak

[El Barto]

There's a lot of ifs in there.

IF, Germany had taken a peaceful, more commercial route towards dominance, they might well have developed superpower status ahead of the US.  However, it'd be short and at a completely different level than the stature we would eventually achieve.  You've got to remember the shear size of this place, and more importantly the massive abundance of resources we stumbled upon.  Everything under the sun to build with.  Massive planes to grow enough wheat, corn, potatoes, sugar and livestock to build a huge workforce, and still export tons to everybody else.  Enough oil, gas and coal to keep us energy dependent during that growth phase.   All of these thing apply to the former USSR, too.  It was inevitable that collectives of this size would grow to a dominant position. 

[rumborak]

Yeah, keep in mind that we have 30% more people than the next biggest EU member, France. So, it's not surprising that Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. And yet, it's population-wise only a quarter of the US. Those facts manifest themselves sooner or later.

rumborak
 

[El Barto]

Now, if you want to throw one of those "ifs" at the European Union forming 60 years ago during Hitlers hypothetical reign of benevolence, I suspect they'd be eating us alive right now.  Plenty of fertile land.  A nice distribution of resources.  A diversity of cultures that would likely lead to a damn fine workforce.  Oil's the big problem, but proximity to the lion's share would certainly mitigate that to a large extent.  Given that OPEC might well have adopted the Euro had it been viable currency back then, it might be the world's reserve currency, and that certainly goes a long way to global mite. 

[Progmetty]

Indeed, but do you think oil would still have been a problem with Austria and the Sudetenland being part of Germany?
And rumborak wouldn't the inclusion of Austria and the Sudetenland get Germany a higher population than France?

[rumborak]

And rumborak wouldn't the inclusion of Austria and the Sudetenland get Germany a higher population than France?

You must have misread my post. Germany has the highest population of the EU, 30% over the next bigger one, France.
Historically, that was the reason why both France and the UK didn't like the reunification of Germany because it suddenly created a player bigger than either of them.
But yeah, throwing the 8 million Austrians on top of that, plus the Sudeten, would have created pretty much a monster For the sake of the European Union, it's better this didn't happen. You can't really have a convincing union if there's one single player that dominates the whole thing (a criticism that even today is levied against Germany).


rumborak

[El Barto]

But on top of that, it's not just about the number of people.  I really think that it's geographical size gives America and Russia a huge edge in global comparative power.  Natural resources+abundant space>>massive workforce>>more processing of those resources and manufacturing.  All of this reaches a critical mass where wealth is increasing exponentially. 

[Progmetty]

That makes sense guys, although one cannot help but notice that such criticisms over the vastness of workspace and resources or outnumbering population can only be directed at Germany, as far as I know no country has ever been given a hard time over something like that.
After WWI one of the main conditions in the Treaty of Versailles was forbidding a union between Austria and Germany then after WWII a higher measure was taken by dividing Germany itself to the occupation zones that later became two different countries, there's definitely constant uneasiness in Europe about Germany being that big, but historically it seems more than the economical over-power issue to me.

But yeah, throwing the 8 million Austrians on top of that

I have a couple silly questions for you; are there still voices in either Germany or Austria that demand unification? or even just wishing it was there? how different are Austrians from you culturally? cause I get the impression it's like a Canadians and Americans situation, are the language ascents so different to say an American/Irish accents kind of difference, or slighter?

[rumborak]

I have a couple silly questions for you; are there still voices in either Germany or Austria that demand unification? or even just wishing it was there? how different are Austrians from you culturally? cause I get the impression it's like a Canadians and Americans situation, are the language ascents so different to say an American/Irish accents kind of difference, or slighter?

I've never heard a single person suggest something like that, essentially because it would conjure up images of Nazi Germany. And there would be no benefit at all really to it.
Culturally, yeah, Canadians vs Americans is pretty close to Germans vs Austrians. Funky accent, but frankly there isn't much difference between Austrians and Bavarians.

rumborak

[Progmetty]

I see, thanks for the input fellas