Home aquariums.

[Chino]

  I've had the pieces sitting in there for five days. I'll get them out them I get home.

[Spitfire]

150 gal, freshwater, old pic. Might update later today.

[Chino]

Why do you have two different lights?



Update on my new tank.

Ammonia < 1
Nitrites > 5
Nitrates >20/<40

I added more ammonia and got it back up to 4ppm.

[Spitfire]

That is a great question.  That's how it came stock, and how we've left it. It really doesn't bother me too much anymore; don't even notice it. The lights are cycled and timed to go off at certain times, and other then that, really nothing has been done.

[Chino]

It almost like two completely different tanks in the same tank.

[Samsara]

Great thread. We're considering putting in a large aquarium (trop fish, not salt) over the next six months. This thread has a lot of good tips I'm jotting down. Thanks guys.

[bosk1]

If you do nothing else, these 4 rules of thumb will get you 90% there:
1.  Be patient and do a fishless cycle.
2.  Get the biggest tank you have space for and can afford.  The bigger the tank, the more stable your water chem. will be.
3.  Invest in a python.
4.  Just learn 1-3 and you're pretty golden.

[El Barto]

You might want to give some thought to what you want to put in it before deciding what to get.  If you're going to put all kinds of different stuff in there, it doesn't matter.  A lot of people like to go the biotope route, and you'd want to know that before you bought 75 pounds of hot pink gravel to put in it.  The likelihood is that you'll probably want an African or South American tank, and that'd be a good thing to know before hand.

[Chino]

My bacteria are doing very well (I think).

Sept 26 - 3:30pm
Ammonia < 1
Nitrites > 5
Nitrates >20/<40

I added more ammonia and got it back up to 4ppm.

Sept 27 - 7:30am

Ammonia = 1
Nitrites > 5 (I'm guessing between 6-8)
Nitrates = 40

I again added more ammonia to get the level back to 4ppm


So, what should my next step be? PWC?

[bosk1]

...I) Keep dosing the ammonia up to 4ppm. It should be dropping fairly quickly by now. Watch your nitrite levels, and once they’ve gotten really high…start testing for nitrAtes. Once the nitrAtes show up, it’s all downhill from here!

J) When your levels of nitrItes and nitrAtes get so high that they’re off what your test kit can show you… do a 50-60% water change. A water change will have no negative impact on your cycle and will help keep things moving and bring your levels low enough so you can actually tell what they are. You can also add another pinch of ground up fish food just to make sure the bacteria has lots of nutrients and phosphates to grow. A water change will also restore the buffers in your water to prevent any fluctuations in pH at the end of your cycle. Remember your dechlorinator!

K) Wait for the magic to happen. Keep watching your levels and adding the ammo up to 4ppm. Keep a very sharp eye on pH at this point. If you see any hints of the pH level dropping…time to break out the bucket and bottle of Prime to do a 50% water change. We want to make sure we have plenty of buffers in the water to keep the pH stable.

One morning you’ll wake up and when you test the water…Ammo and nitrItes will be gone! They’ll have vanished overnight! Technically this means your cycle is complete, but we’ve still got a bit of testing to do to make sure.

L) Add your ammonia up to 4ppm one more time. Look at the clock. If within 24 hours you can turn that 4ppm of ammonia > nitrItes > nitrAtes… congratulations! After the 24 hours your test results should be ammo-0 nitrItes-0 and have lots of nitrAtes. You grew one heck of a bio-filter and are going to have ridiculously happy fish!

Source (and full article):  https://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/125/1/The-almost-Complete-Guide-and-FAQ-to-Fishless-Cycling/Page1.html

[Chino]

Cool beans. I've read not to worry too much about ph levels. Mine chills at 7.6 ish and is very stubborn in regards to getting it to move. What does the bottle of prime do? I saw some people on AA saying not to use it.

[bosk1]

Prime is your dechlorinator.  Not sure why people are saying NOT to use it.  It is a very trusted brand and has been around forever. 

EDIT:  Okay, found some of what you are probably talking about.  Some people are saying Prime gives you false readings.  Personally, I have never seen that happen, and I am pretty sure it is just a rumor.  In this thread, for example, a few people say that, and the last poster in the thread says it does not:

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fish-in-cycle-still-no-nitrites-171437.html

I can tell you that I used Prime right from the beginning as my dechlorinator, and the readings I got during my cycle were textbook, so I highly doubt it gave me false readings.

[Chino]

Good to know, Bosk. Thanks.

Something interesting with my reading tonight. I re-upped my ammonia to 4ppm this morning. 14 hours later it was down to <.5. My nitrites stayed the same, maybe a little higher. My nitrates were between 40ppm and 80ppm this morning (7:30), tonight (9:30) they were 5ppm-10ppm.... Something doesn't seem right there. I'm going to do a 75% water change tomorrow afternoon after I finish class.

Question... In the master test kit, the nitrate test bottle #2, is there some kind of solid or powder in it? I shook it for 40 seconds, and at drop 7 it got clogged. I shook it a few time and drops 8,9, and 10 came out fine. I'm guessing that had something to do with my funky reading.

Edit*

Tested nitrates again (15 minutes later), got the same reading....

[Chino]

Last night's readings.

Sept 27 - 9:30pm
Ammonia <.5
Nitrites > 5 (6-8)
Nitrates = 5-10ppm

I took readings this morning...

Sept 28 - 6:15am
Ammonia = .5-1ppm
Nitrites > 5
Nitrates = 5-10ppm ...

I'm baffled.

[El Barto]

When I did that a while back,  it took a few weeks to get everything normalized.  Do a 50% waterchange and give it time.  Looks to me like everything's happening as it should. 

[Chino]

It's normal for nitrates to drop from 80 to 10 in a 14 hour period by themselves?

[Chino]

So I realized something as soon as I woke up this morning. When I purchased my tank, it came with a bunch of sample bottles; a water clarifier and a liquid plant food. I never used the water clarifier, but I did use the plant food a few times. I used it as instructed. I realized this morning, I haven't added the food in a few days.... right around the same time I noticed a crazy drop in my nitrate levels. Is it possible that there was something in the food that was showing me the high nitrate readings? I hope that is the case. At least that explain why my nitrites are still high and my nitrates are so low. Anyways, I added the food in this morning and will be testing when I get home tonight. The food would have been in there a good twelve hours or so by then.

[bosk1]

Hard to say.  Any time you are adding a chemical into what is essentially a giant test tube (i.e. your tank), you are introducing additional variables into the equation.

[XianL]

Great thread, going to go through it and jot down all the tips you folks have given.

Having noted;

2.  Get the biggest tank you have space for and can afford.  The bigger the tank, the more stable your water chem. will be.

Do any of you have a read on what kind of quality the stater-kit aquariums are like?

[bosk1]

Depends on what they include.  For example, if the starter kit includes an under gravel filter, I wouldn't get it.  But most starter kits for 20 gal. setups and above are decent.  You aren't going to get the best quality, but you will usually get pretty decent stuff.  I got a 55 gal. starter kit in 2005.  The tank itself was fine.  I got a good stand for it (which is not part of the kit, but you definitely want to make sure you have a stand that is designed to hold a tank).  The hang-on-the-back filter it came with was decent quality.  Not the best, but middle of the road, and it's been fine.  I think the thermometer was the stick-on strip kind, which aren't the best, so I bought a cheap suction cup thermometer.  The biggest issue was the heater.  I knew I should probably replace the one that came with the kit at some point down the road.  Unfortunately, the one I had died before it should have, and it happened in the month of January over a weekend when we had house guests and I was busy entertaining and not keeping an eye on the tank.  The result was that I lost my favorite and most expensive fish.   

My best advice on that is, shop around and compare.  When you find a kit that is in your price range that you think you want to buy, take inventory of exactly what come with it, and post here in this thread as well as on a reputable aquarium advice forum, such as the one I posted about above, and see what others think.

[XianL]

Very informative, thanks bosk. I've been browsing the communities suggestion (found a post of yours from 5 years ago in the newbie thread on aquariumadvice ).

I'll do so when I find a good-looking kit. Also, you've made a very convincing argument for the purchase of a python, looks like a godsend.

[El Barto]

Depends on what they include.  For example, if the starter kit includes an under gravel filter, I wouldn't get it.

Undergravel filters are still the single best way of cultivating your good critters there is, short of a wet/dry sump system.  I wouldn't want only that,  but combined with a decent HOB filter, it's as good as you're going to get without dumping a ton of dough.

My concern with starter kits is that they're mainly using acrylic tanks nowadays, and I'm not a fan.  Also,  the colored gravel they put in there is a pretty crappy filter medium. 

And yeah,  a Python is the single most important component.  You don't blow off water changes when it only takes you five minutes to do.

[bosk1]

Undergravel filters are still the single best way of cultivating your good critters there is, short of a wet/dry sump system.  I wouldn't want only that,  but combined with a decent HOB filter, it's as good as you're going to get without dumping a ton of dough. 

Agreed, but IMO, the upside doesn't outweight the downside.  Critters is good, no doubt.  But once a tank is properly cycles, you generally have WAY more than enough beneficial bacteria living in your substrate, HOB filter, and other places that you don't need that benefit from an under gravel filter.  So the upside, to me, is minimal.  And the downside is that you cannot easily clean under there, so you have a nitrate factory that is pretty inaccessible.

My concern with starter kits is that they're mainly using acrylic tanks nowadays, and I'm not a fan.  Also,  the colored gravel they put in there is a pretty crappy filter medium. 

Oh, really?  I didn't know they were selling acrylics as starters now.  I guess it depends where you get them.  I know some people love acrylics because you don't have seams to deal with.  But like you, I prefer glass.  And, yeah, I hate the colored gravel.  But I think most places will let you sub it out for natural gravel.  I got a natural river gravel for mine, which I'm happy with.  If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have gone with sand, but I don't have any major complaints with the natural gravel.

[InfraredDream]

Agreed for the undergravel filters. Especially if you do planted tanks as all of mine are. The cycle doesn't take long and once you do it for one tank, do never need to worry again (unless you mess it up somehow). I personally prefer to do it with one fish or a snail or two. But haven't done it for a long time
As for coloured gravel, one colour only work great for bettas in my opinion. It can really boost the colours and can look awesome. Black or red ones in particular makes a great planted tank for a betta.
For a general community tank, especially planted there is nothing prettier than natural look But again it goes with the personal preferences as some people like aliens, castles, etc. I only use wood, rocks and plans. Kids are having fun making caves, etc, out of natural rocks, they glue them together with silicon. When you attach some plants to them, it looks awesome.

bosk, unfortunately most of the starter kits are plastic, I believe because it is cheaper and easier for most people because it's light. I mean mostly the 1-5 g range. I am a big fan of glass though.

[El Barto]

I believe your PetSmart type places are mainly selling acrylic nowadays. 

As for the UGF,  more than enough critters helps stability, IMO.  HOB filters are pretty unreliable.  I was constantly walking over to find the biowheel not turning, or the output reduced to a trickle for a variety of reasons.  A massive bed or happy, healthy critters will keep things stable indefinitely. 

As for the nitrate factory, that's an interesting point that I hadn't considered.  At the same time,  once a year or so you take the gravel vacuum off your python and snake the hose down one of the lift tubes, and 5 seconds later the underside of your UGF is a clean as the rest of the tank. 

I have been knocking around ditching my UGF though for different reasons, though.  When I finally stock the tank it'll be with Earth-eaters,  and that just makes for a PITA combination.

[InfraredDream]

Interesting. I mostly use Aquaclear HOB with some good media, not biowheels. I rarely have any issues with them.
There are two big things I don't like about undergravel - the fact you have lots of garbage trapped there. And the need of an airpump which always is way to noisy for my liking.
Good substrate, plants and rocks do a great job with bacteria. But I guess it really is a matter of personal preferences.

[El Barto]

I've got an aquaclear as well.  The thing was deafening.  With a perfectly full tank, it was alright, but a week's worth of evaporation and (like all HOBs) it sounded like Niagara Falls. 

It also tried to drain my tank once when the tab that keeps it upright bent under and tilted the entire unit back 20°. 

I recently replaced my HOBs with a cheap canister filter and I've been very happy with it.  Silent and a great design for W/D filtration. 

[InfraredDream]

Yeah, I see what you mean and I agree with that, but I love the sound of the falling water. Not in my bedroom though Thus I only keep bettas with no filter near my bed
BTW, with a good cover there is almost no evaporation even in the Summer.
Canister is best in terms of noise and all, but way too expensive for most people that usually do smaller tanks like 20 g or so.

[El Barto]

Unfortunately,  I'm in kind of an oddball situation.  I've got a 50g breeder, which is a great size for many reasons.  The problem is it's exactly the wrong size for the type of fish I want.  50g is actually a reasonable size if it's in the right proportions, but the breeder-ness of this one makes it short and deep for maximum surface area.  There's a ton of cool stuff I can do with it,  but housing a group of cichlids isn't really one of them.  I'm actually knocking around the idea of replacing it,  but the prospect of spending money, time, and a ridiculous amount of effort to "upgrade" to a tank that's essentially the same size just doesn't sound very damned appealing. 

On the bright side,  tons of people are unloading their equipment on Craigslist/eBay for next to nothing, so it's not a bad time to really upgrade.

[InfraredDream]

Yeah, exactly. I always see people getting out of the hobby or trading. Good luck with finding the best tank for your taste!

[bosk1]

When my rosies eventually pass on, I may change over to come type of cichlids.  I just have to make sure to buy them when they are babies so they get used to my clown loaches when they are still too small to try to eat them. 

[InfraredDream]

That should work, bosk. I have a few friends with that combinations and no complains

[El Barto]

Temperamentally, there's no issue.  Cichlids are usually conspecifically aggressive (though there are certainly exceptions).  The bigger issue is that loaches prefer slightly different water quality.  Most people think they make great tank-mates, and others think you should never combine them. 

The bigger thing with loaches is to make sure you have enough of them to be social and feel safe in numbers, but I suspect you're probably well aware of that.  Assuming you have enough loaches for them to feel safe,  they'll usually do just fine with bigger fish.  It also helps that they hang out at the bottom and don't generally look for food up top with the mean fish.   

I really liked keeping clown loaches; goofy little bastards.  When the two oldest croaked,  I had to decide to either buy more to keep their numbers up,  and therefore commit to another decade of keeping them,  or unload the remainders and take a different tack.  Went with the latter.

[bosk1]

I've tried, and for whatever reason, even though I've been pretty successful with other species, I've had really bad luck with clown loaches.  I started with 5 back when I started my tank, and lost 3.  Later, I tried introducing a few more, and lost them as well.  I'm a decent aquarist, but it basically scared me away from that species.  I feel bad when I lose fish.  And, not to sound cold, but my wallet also feels bad when I lose fish that aren't cheap.  I'd love to have a small school of them, but I'm just not sure about trying to introduce more.

My tank currently consists of:
-5 roseline sharks
-2 clown loaches
-2 yoyo loaches
-salt & pepper cory
-an undisclosed number of otos (they always hide, and they're not hearty at all, so I'm never sure how many I have at any given moment)

[El Barto]

That's strange.  The only loaches I've lost were due to accidents or old age.

Don't know if the yoyos and clowns school together or not,  but having less than 4 or 5 loaches really screw up their stress level. 

Do your sleep out in the open?