Author Topic: The official Redemption thread v. Long Night's Journey Into Day - July 27th  (Read 64341 times)

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Online bl5150

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I think the new song is fine - certainly enough to keep my interest. The vocals almost sound too clean/sterile for the music (my ears want some reverb or something :lol )  but anything that is quality and has some thought to it these days goes a long way to keeping me happy.

I was far more bullish on The Art Of Loss than most here and had it up there in my top albums of 2016.   More my style than most of what I have from the older stuff.

Looking forward to the album.
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Offline wolfking

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I think the new song is fine - certainly enough to keep my interest. The vocals almost sound too clean/sterile for the music (my ears want some reverb or something :lol )  but anything that is quality and has some thought to it these days goes a long way to keeping me happy.

I was far more bullish on The Art Of Loss than most here and had it up there in my top albums of 2016.   More my style than most of what I have from the older stuff.

Looking forward to the album.

Definitely one of my fav albums of that year too Brent.

Offline Mindflux

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Re: The official Redemption thread
« Reply #807 on: May 16, 2018, 06:59:55 AM »
8. Mindflux, appreciate your previous support. Hopefully you will find something else to enjoy on this record.

Nick,
 
 Thank you for the nice reply. I did NOT mean to come off as harsh as it came across.  I'll give the new disc a chance once it arrives! The reason for my harsh criticism comes from the fact I'm deaf in one ear and mostly deaf in the other. I wear a hearing aid in my working ear and to me vocalists I can understand are pretty much everything to me.   If I can't understand what they are singing relatively easily I generally put it down forever.  I can make out 95% of what Ray sings after a listen or two.... so far with Mr. Englund that's not happening.


Also Art of Loss is AMAZING.  I have a few office co-workers with similar tastes in music and they all love it as well. You gained a few Redemption fans when I started raving about how great AoL is.


 

Offline cramx3

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Re: The official Redemption thread
« Reply #808 on: May 16, 2018, 07:39:43 AM »
Thanks for taking the time, Nick. Really appreciate it and I'm still super hyped about the album.

I know little about the band or Nick, but the fact he came over here to comment is pretty awesome :metal

Offline T-ski

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Snowfall is the only Redemption album I ever go back to and this song gives me the same feeling.

Curious to hear more.
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Offline Ninjabait

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Re: The official Redemption thread
« Reply #810 on: May 16, 2018, 07:57:01 AM »
13. Ninjabait...there isn't enough going on in the simple 4/4 intro for it to be a disjointed mess. You can say you don't like it, though. :)  The outro went on as long as it did because there is a Meshuggah thing going on with a different accent passing through each of the notes in the riff and it had to cycle through.

Man, actually getting a response (and a courteous one at that!) is a really cool thing. You guys definitely have my respect. I'll be sure to give the full album a spin when it comes out. As for my response to your response:

First off, this was based on my first listen and was more reflective of my initial reactions than anything. Although, the second listen I had just now confirmed to me a lot of the points I made. Although how silky smooth that guitar tone is jumped out at me on the second or third listen. Drums seem to fit better in the mix too.

Second, sorry if I came off as harsh at all. I probably didn't go into as much detail or explain myself as well as I should have. That was mostly a spit-take based on initial listen. Some things didn't work for me, some things kinda worked for me, and some things didn't work for me.

I don't know if it being simple disqualifies it from sounding messy. Listening again more attentively, most of the issues I'm noticing with it not working for me stem from that lead guitar part laid on top. Specifically, the rhythm of it. As it stands, the lead and accompaniment seem more like they're fighting each other than cooperating. The arpeggiated accompaniment works fine, and it sounds great with the distorted electric when the full band enters. It's mostly that lead part that bothers me. Maybe I was being a bit too harsh with calling it a disjointed mess, but it still does not work for me. Sorry :(

As for the outro, that makes sense. I didn't fully pick up on that when I was listening, but now that I know what to look for that section works a lot better. I definitely appreciate the explanation, though!

Also, if you don't mind my asking, who did the mixing/mastering/production on the album (or at least this song)? Besides the drums, that was the first thing that popped out at me as one of the best parts of the song.

Offline jingle.boy

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On Ruslan's endorsement, I gave Art of Loss another spin yesterday - and found it much more enjoyable than I remember'd it upon release.  I was multi-tasking, and didn't really get to take in the epic/closer, so I'll have to have another go at it sometime soon.

@Nick... thanks for taking the time to stop in, constructively take the good and bad comments, and offer your own feedback.   :tup
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: The official Redemption thread
« Reply #812 on: May 16, 2018, 10:51:42 AM »
It's always quite surprising when members of the actual band respond to feedback. It makes sense but relatively few seem to actually do it. Good on you, Nick.

I don't know if it being simple disqualifies it from sounding messy. Listening again more attentively, most of the issues I'm noticing with it not working for me stem from that lead guitar part laid on top. Specifically, the rhythm of it. As it stands, the lead and accompaniment seem more like they're fighting each other than cooperating. The arpeggiated accompaniment works fine, and it sounds great with the distorted electric when the full band enters. It's mostly that lead part that bothers me. Maybe I was being a bit too harsh with calling it a disjointed mess, but it still does not work for me. Sorry :(

There are quite a few layers of syncopation there, very prog but probably too much.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, who did the mixing/mastering/production on the album (or at least this song)? Besides the drums, that was the first thing that popped out at me as one of the best parts of the song.

Jacob Hansen, he's awesome. Produces bands like Anubis Gate, Epica and Pyramaze. Very full and atmospheric sound.

Offline nvandyk1

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Hello folks, and thanks for the polite discourse here. :)

I try to not be too much of a buttinsky because I don't want people to feel like they can't comment however they like and I never want to get defensive about this stuff, but this community and I go way back and it's fun to pop by now and then when we kick up a bit of dust. :)   Funny, I don't remember coming by here after Art of Loss was released and maybe I'm glad I didn't lol. ;)

Re: the opening of this song, what Ninjabait is saying is a lead guitar is actually the bass. That part certainly does float over the guitar figure. It's not quite free form. You should have heard what Sean started out with -- believe me, I had to mold it a bit to get it to sync up with the 4/4. But I wanted to let him "noodle" around over that part. Perhaps I should have been a bit more demanding but I don't like to poop in anybody's punchbowl, so to speak. ;)

The production was indeed done by Jacob and I don't mind saying it was a bear to get this done -- it took FOREVER. Jacob delivers tremendous punch to his mixes and we obviously wanted that but it had to be balanced out with all the stuff that makes Redemption sound like Redemption. Some examples: in contrast to a bass part that tracks the root notes of guitar chords, our bass often plays counterpoint. It's an extended range instrument so the low end steps on the kick drum and the high end steps on the low end of the guitar. We've got a ton of keyboards, and you'd be surprised at how the frequencies of basically anything except violins step on other frequencies. Plus the music is busy to begin with.

All of which is to say Jacob had to very patiently adjust his signal processing chain and then ultimate spend a lot of time tinkering with me using submixes and sending files back and forth and being very painstaking about it.

I am happy with where we ended up, and of course now only hear things that I want to change...which I think is how it works with everybody. But Jacob was great to work with and as I said, very patient and flexible in letting us get to the sound we wanted. I have heard some say the vocal isn't loud enough in the mix...I must have different ears than everybody because it sounds fine to me (and to Tom and Jacob and the others in the band and the label) but maybe it's an artifact of YouTube compression.

If it IS too low in the mix...I have no doubt I'll hear about it from multiple sources once the record is out. ;)

Online TAC

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Re: The official Redemption thread
« Reply #814 on: May 16, 2018, 02:56:26 PM »
10. TAC, when you hear Indulge in Color, let me know when you've changed you mind.

Oh yeah, don't worry. I'm going to listen to the whole album. I hope my mind does change and I hope you guys brought something special out of Tom. I'm just not a fan of what he does.
I know I can count on the music being top notch.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline cramx3

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I love how you are providing awesome insight.  I'm not a musician and I can only ponder about what goes on in the studio, but reading something like this:

I wanted to let him "noodle" around over that part. Perhaps I should have been a bit more demanding but I don't like to poop in anybody's punchbowl, so to speak. ;)

Is really cool to see the perspective of the artist and how things evolve and what ends up sticking.  Also, from my experience on this forum.... everyone has different ears.  I wouldn't get too worked up over comments about the mix.  Unless of course everyone was shitting on it like Metallica's St. Anger, which doesn't seem to be the case at all, then I think it's just a matter of personal opinion based on one's own ears and their own training of their ears.  Mix sounds fine to me, in fact, I would say it sounds "good" but always hard to give a definite mix review based off youtube.

Offline Ninjabait

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Re: the opening of this song, what Ninjabait is saying is a lead guitar is actually the bass. That part certainly does float over the guitar figure. It's not quite free form. You should have heard what Sean started out with -- believe me, I had to mold it a bit to get it to sync up with the 4/4. But I wanted to let him "noodle" around over that part. Perhaps I should have been a bit more demanding but I don't like to poop in anybody's punchbowl, so to speak. ;)

I was a bit on the fence on labeling that a bass or a guitar. At first I initially leaned towards bass, but the high end on that bass sounded super clean and I was like "nah, no way that's a bass". I don't know if it was the bass/amp combo, the eq, or his technique, but that high end sounds really guitar-like and clean. Cool stuff.

If there's anything I learned at music school, sometimes ya gotta poop in somebody's punchbowl. And sometimes you gotta let someone else poop in your bowl. It's a great learning experience to go for some sweet double-stop punch and find a nasty "violas can't play B2 mate" turd in it. You learn to approach the punch at a different angle, to get the sweet flavor you want while avoiding all those nasty turds. I'm not good at analogies.

And y'know, prog is all about experimentation. Trying new things and making new dishes. Sometimes you find that adding some honey really makes ground beef taste great, other times you put ginger in your PB&J. I don't know where I'm going with this, but point is don't put ginger in your PB&Js. It cancels out the other flavors and makes everything really dry.

I am happy with where we ended up, and of course now only hear things that I want to change...which I think is how it works with everybody. But Jacob was great to work with and as I said, very patient and flexible in letting us get to the sound we wanted. I have heard some say the vocal isn't loud enough in the mix...I must have different ears than everybody because it sounds fine to me (and to Tom and Jacob and the others in the band and the label) but maybe it's an artifact of YouTube compression.

If it IS too low in the mix...I have no doubt I'll hear about it from multiple sources once the record is out. ;)

Vocals sound fine to me. Mix in general sounds fine to me, but like cramx3 said everyone has different ears.

Offline abydos

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And different speakers/headphones too.

Offline wolfking

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So cool of you Nick to come in and chat with us and give us some insight. Vocals sound perfectly fine in the mix and there is no doubt the album will sound awesome with Jacob at the helm.

Offline Zook

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I am happy with where we ended up, and of course now only hear things that I want to change...which I think is how it works with everybody. But Jacob was great to work with and as I said, very patient and flexible in letting us get to the sound we wanted. I have heard some say the vocal isn't loud enough in the mix...I must have different ears than everybody because it sounds fine to me (and to Tom and Jacob and the others in the band and the label) but maybe it's an artifact of YouTube compression.

If it IS too low in the mix...I have no doubt I'll hear about it from multiple sources once the record is out. ;)

Hey Nick, good to see you again!

When This Mortal Coil came out the biggest criticism was the vocals being too low, but at least for me, after several listens, I got used to the sound, and the volume level of the vocals was fine. It's funny how that works. Tom sounds fine on this song, but I have to agree that it sounds like he's holding back a bit. Still looking forward to the album!

Offline Nachtmerrie

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After hearing Little Men a few times I'm really liking it.
Can't wait to hear Indulge in Color as Black & White World is in my top 10 favorite songs ever.

@Nick, any plans for a European Tour? Very much appreciated:)

Offline Lethean

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This thread inspired me to give The Art of Loss a listen a few days ago.  I never had any complaints about it, just never really listened to it enough.  Seems like a good album - need to listen a few more times probably, but I think there's a lot to enjoy there.  I also don't quite get the comments about thinking Ray's voice was shot.  He sounds good.  I will say - not as good as he does on Theories of Flight, but certainly not bad.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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I guess I'm in the minority here. As indicated numerous times in this thread in the past..... I LOVE The Art of Loss.... to the tune that on any given day, either that, or The Fullness of Time is my favorite Redemption album. Furthermore, Slouching is one of my favorite Redemption songs of all time, easily in my top 5 with Sapphire, Memory, The Suffocating Silence & At Day's End. Love everything about the song, the bass in the beginning, the build ups.. the break downs... the story... the blistering soloing.

and when I saw the new album title... I couldn't help to think that this could be something to do with At Day's End.

Offline devieira73

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I'm not a fan of the epics just for the sake of being epic, but "At Day's End" is just so amazing and perfect to my ears. Maybe my favorite Redemption's song. Also, I think The Art of Loss is a great album. But, sincerely, their albums are very homogenous in quality and style, so it's hard for to pick a favorite... but I guess it's still This Mortal Coil to me.
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Offline Ninjabait

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Probably an unpopular opinion on a prog metal forum, but the ballads were my favorite part of The Art of Loss. Redemption makes a darn fine prog ballad (case in point: my favorite Redemption song by far, Black and White World). Slouching Towards Bethlehem is probably my favorite non-ballad on that album because of the killer middle section. At Day's End is probably my least favorite song on that album. A big part of that is probably my huge pet peeve of bands quoting classical pieces in their music. I've never cared for that. Like, ever.

Edit: Listened to That Golden Light again just now. How is this not a hit? That is such an amazing chorus, and the solo is great too. Don't usually love shredding in slow songs, but it just works somehow here.

Offline devieira73

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Yeah, That Golden Light really gives me goosebumps everytime I hear it, a truly emotional song :hefdaddy
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Offline krands85

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I guess I'm in the minority here. As indicated numerous times in this thread in the past..... I LOVE The Art of Loss.... to the tune that on any given day, either that, or The Fullness of Time is my favorite Redemption album.
:tup They are my 2 favourite Redemption albums as well.
Whoaaaahh, ohhh, ohhhhh. Whoaaaahh, ohhhhh, ohhhhhh. Waaah, ahhh, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaowwwwww

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"... one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Offline cramx3

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Nice, I just reviewed it and plan on making a pledge.  Since I'll be at PP this is something I'd love to be able to watch again (and again).  Without even being too familiar with them, I want this to happen. :metal

Offline Mindflux

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Nick should see about fixing the band title on Amazon:



Goth!?

Offline Mister Gold

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"Indulge in Color" is available on iTunes now! :metal

Definitely one of the best songs I've ever heard from Redemption right here, I think. Granted, I'm still going to need to listen to it a few more times before I can give it an exact ranking. Tom shines here.
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Offline krands85

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"Indulge in Color" is available on iTunes now! :metal

Definitely one of the best songs I've ever heard from Redemption right here, I think. Granted, I'm still going to need to listen to it a few more times before I can give it an exact ranking. Tom shines here.
Also available here: https://redemptionband.bandcamp.com/track/little-men

Sounds pretty decent on first listen  :coolio
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Offline Mebert78

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Instrumental playthrough of "Indulge in Color":  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AlPPfHBNc

I'm so happy they added a full-time keyboardist.  I've felt like that was missing from Redemption since Greg Hosharian's key work on Snowfall on Judgment Day.
An unofficial online community for fans of keyboardist Kevin Moore (ex-Dream Theater, Chroma Key, OSI):


Offline Grappler

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Wow.  Tom is amazing on this one! 

Offline cramx3

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Letís make this happen!

Does anyone know how kickstarters work?  As in, there's only 11 days left and it's not even half way to the goal.  If I put money on this but it doesn't reach it's goal, do I get the money back?  I think that's where I stand right now.  I think filming the PP show is cool af and I want to be apart of it because I'll be there, but I'm not familiar enough with the band to put money on a project that won't happen.  So if I knew I'd get my money back (probably just going to put 50 on this) if it fails, I'll do so now to help nudge this thing closer to completion, but if I am risking my money, then I don't thnk I am going to bother as it doesn't look like it will get funded.

Online goo-goo

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Letís make this happen!

Does anyone know how kickstarters work?  As in, there's only 11 days left and it's not even half way to the goal.  If I put money on this but it doesn't reach it's goal, do I get the money back?  I think that's where I stand right now.  I think filming the PP show is cool af and I want to be apart of it because I'll be there, but I'm not familiar enough with the band to put money on a project that won't happen.  So if I knew I'd get my money back (probably just going to put 50 on this) if it fails, I'll do so now to help nudge this thing closer to completion, but if I am risking my money, then I don't thnk I am going to bother as it doesn't look like it will get funded.

If the goal is not met (all or nothing), the money goes back to you.
If the goal is flexible (under the goal amount), you get charged and product (in this case, blu ray) will be shipped.
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Offline cramx3

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Letís make this happen!

Does anyone know how kickstarters work?  As in, there's only 11 days left and it's not even half way to the goal.  If I put money on this but it doesn't reach it's goal, do I get the money back?  I think that's where I stand right now.  I think filming the PP show is cool af and I want to be apart of it because I'll be there, but I'm not familiar enough with the band to put money on a project that won't happen.  So if I knew I'd get my money back (probably just going to put 50 on this) if it fails, I'll do so now to help nudge this thing closer to completion, but if I am risking my money, then I don't thnk I am going to bother as it doesn't look like it will get funded.

If the goal is not met (all or nothing), the money goes back to you.
If the goal is flexible (under the goal amount), you get charged and product (in this case, blu ray) will be shipped.

Thanks, after I typed all that I read the FAQ (although the all or nothing part is what confuses me), but thanks for responding and I just pledged 50 bucks. 

Online goo-goo

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All or nothing just means if goal is reached, you get the reward. If it's not reached, you get your money back with no reward.

Flexible goal means that if let's say the 15k is not reached, but there are only 7k in pledges, you will be charged and the reward will be given/shipped to you.

Hopefully, the goal is met in this Redemption recording. Would love to hear the new lineup live.
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Offline cramx3

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Yea, the all or nothing made me wonder if it meant I lost my money if it didn't get funded.  Sadly my 50 isn't going to get this funded, needs lots more funding so that's sad if it doesn't happen.

Online goo-goo

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Yea, the all or nothing made me wonder if it meant I lost my money if it didn't get funded.  Sadly my 50 isn't going to get this funded, needs lots more funding so that's sad if it doesn't happen.

Kind of sucks that it is not a flexible goal. However, a lot crowd funding projects are usually slow at first and the last 2 days things kind of ramp up. Hopefully this one does.
"There's no way in hell that John Petrucci's gonna do something that sucks.  It just doesn't happen." - Jordan Rudess