The official Redemption thread v. I Am the Storm - March 17th 2023

[425]

Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.'  You've already put it out there.  Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.

Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

[MinistroRaven]

Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.'  You've already put it out there.  Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.

Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I stopped doing interviews/reviews etc.

The website hasn’t been updated in almost 2 years.

If the admins want to delete the comments so be it.

[TAC]

DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.

And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.

[wolfking]

DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.

And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.

That's totally true but not the reason why we are ragging on him here.

[MinistroRaven]

DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.

And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.

No way for Nick to confirm it, as it was Jim who gave the ultimatum to Ray to choose between one of the two bands.

Edit: I can't imagine Ray's face when couple of years later Jim decided to do Arch / Matheos album.

Edit 2: And the only reason I threw it out there is simple, there's a new redemption single coming out, I miss Ray, and I hate Tom's voice. But I hate Jim more, lol

[TAC]

Seems like an odd thing for Jim to do, you know, with Fates Warning being so fucking busy and all.
Apparently, he has no issue with Joey Vera playing with Armored Saint and King Diamond, or Bobby J playing in a country band.
Why put the screws to Ray?

[goo-goo]

DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.

And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.

No way for Nick to confirm it, as it was Jim who gave the ultimatum to Ray to choose between one of the two bands.

Edit: I can't imagine Ray's face when couple of years later Jim decided to do Arch / Matheos album.

Edit 2: And the only reason I threw it out there is simple, there's a new redemption single coming out, I miss Ray, and I hate Tom's voice. But I hate Jim more, lol

Jim consulted Ray first on the Arch/Matheos music. Ray didn't like the music for turning into a Fates Warning album. Jim approached John and talked to Ray if it was Ok to do Arch/Matheos and Ray said it was ok. This was heavily documented in a lot of interviews with both Ray and Jim.

I still don't buy the ultimatum from Jim to Ray, both  Ray and Jim have worked in other projects/albums in between Fates and haven't interfered with Fates' touring plans.

[Lethean]

I think it's entirely possible that someone told him that Jim gave Ray an ultimatum.  (Whether it's completely accurate or not is another story).  But it's not appropriate to throw out here as if it's a fact that that's how it is.  Either don't say anything at all, which is probably best, or tell the whole story.

[cramx3]

Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.'  You've already put it out there.  Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.

Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I stopped doing interviews/reviews etc.

The website hasn’t been updated in almost 2 years.

If the admins want to delete the comments so be it.

What website?  For some reason I assumed you were associated with the sonic perspective people who seem to be on the forum.

[bosk1]

Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said. 

[MinistroRaven]

Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.'  You've already put it out there.  Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.

Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.

I stopped doing interviews/reviews etc.

The website hasn’t been updated in almost 2 years.

If the admins want to delete the comments so be it.

What website?  For some reason I assumed you were associated with the sonic perspective people who seem to be on the forum.

MY OWN.

I am not longer associated with SP either, and haven’t been from at least 2 years

[MinistroRaven]

Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.

 

[wolfking]

Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.

You mean go with the three credible sources over a journo throwing out a random half story on a prog metal forum?  Surely not!?

[TAC]

Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.

Since when do public statements actually tell the truth about what the real dealings are? I mean, it's possible they do, but you know as well as I do that it's not always the case.

Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, and while I like to bust his balls for his "Press Statement" style posts, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.

[DTwwbwMP]

Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.

 

[bosk1]

Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, and while I like to bust his balls for his "Press Statement" style posts, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.

I don't.  Yeah, public statements are not always accurate.  But the statements from the ONLY people in the know, who would be on opposite sides of any such ultimatum and thus not necessarily expected to agree on the details if there was an ultimatum, DO in fact agree.  The ONLY thing we have to the contrary is...something unsubstantiated by some unknown source that said something unknown.  Not only do I not believe that, but I also discredit the source as irresponsibly throwing around some pretty irresponsible accusations.  Or at least they might be irresponsible if there was any detail.  There isn't. 

[Lethean]

I wouldn't consider it a bashing... skepticism is warranted.

And I don't think anyone really thinks he's lying. 

But Ministro - I do think it's very very bad form what went down here.  You didn't just say "I heard that..."  You said "F Jim, he is the reason Ray isn't in Redemption."  That's just not cool.  If you're going to say that, then back it up.  "X told me A, B, and C when I interviewed him on this date..."  And even then it's still not really cool because it was off the record, but it would still be better than saying Ray had to choose, it's all Jim's fault, but you can't say more because it was off the record.  Um?  Then don't say anything at all and truly honor it being "off the record." 

[TAC]

Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, and while I like to bust his balls for his "Press Statement" style posts, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.

I don't.  Yeah, public statements are not always accurate.  But the statements from the ONLY people in the know, who would be on opposite sides of any such ultimatum and thus not necessarily expected to agree on the details if there was an ultimatum, DO in fact agree.  The ONLY thing we have to the contrary is...something unsubstantiated by some unknown source that said something unknown.  Not only do I not believe that, but I also discredit the source as irresponsibly throwing around some pretty irresponsible accusations.  Or at least they might be irresponsible if there was any detail.  There isn't.

Bosk, been going back and forth with this because I don't mean this disrespectfully. But we're adults just talking... I'm not saying that you don't personally believe this. You likely do. But I feel like being the admin here, developing some of the relationships you have, kind of backs you into taking the above position...publicly.

Ministro is just trying to contribute, and I wouldn't expect him to reveal a source or to betray a confidence. He's never posted here just to kick up needless dust that I can remember.

I remember a few years ago when I said I knew Mike Mangini's brother in law. I think it was Rumborak that called bullshit on me. I've been a member since 2004, and I was pissed as hell about my word being called into question.  I certainly wasn't going to name the guy publicly.

[MinistroRaven]

Yeah, you guys are right, I probably should have kept it to myself as it was “off the record.”

But, I have the whole recording and I stand by my words.

Call it skepticism, bashing, call it what you want, but I know what *I* heard.

[ProfessorPeart]

Yeah, you guys are right, I probably should have kept it to myself as it was “off the record.”

But, I have the whole recording and I stand by my words.

Call it skepticism, bashing, call it what you want, but I know what *I* heard.

I'm glad you seem to be taking this in stride. I wouldn't blame you for a lapse in judgement with all you have been through these last couple of years. Uprooting your family, having your money be stuck in another country, struggling to get your papers so you can actually move to the country you intend to, your Dad's health. You're allowed a slip here and there. You're a good member and I'd hate to lose you over something like this.

[bosk1]

...and I'd hate to lose you over something like this.

I'm not even sure why that would be an issue.  I would hope it wouldn't be.  He knows I think very highly of him as a person, and I think most of us do and value his presence here.  But I still feel the way I do and feel that what he said is out of bounds.  I wouldn't be a good forum admin if I didn't call that out as admin, and I wouldn't be a good friend if I didn't call that out as a friend. 

[wolfking]

Yeah, you guys are right, I probably should have kept it to myself as it was “off the record.”

But, I have the whole recording and I stand by my words.

Call it skepticism, bashing, call it what you want, but I know what *I* heard.

I respect you taking it on the chin too mate.  I believe you wouldn't post that if it were a lie but with nothing to go off.......it's a hard one and some are gonna call bullshit.

You are a great member so nothing personal from me also.

[emtee]

I'm certain that Ministro is telling his truth. Whether or not his interviewee was...that's the X factor unknown.

As for Redemption w/o Ray, I tried hard but the vocals just don't do it for me. Music is great though.

[MinistroRaven]

Guys I want to apologize for bringing the information the way I did yesterday. Certainly this wasn’t the place to bring that up. And now I understand I should have kept that secret as I was asked to.
As someone said if I am not giving all the information and backing it up with proof other than my word it should have remain untold.
As I certainly won’t shared all what was said during the interview with this person before the show in Lima, I would like if possible that any admin/mods to delete the messages.
Again, I am sorry for causing this trouble in the forum.
I appreciate the words of concern towards me. This is such a special place and you guys mean a lot to me. Please accept my apologies.
Best,
JP

[WilliamMunny]

Guys I want to apologize for bringing the information the way I did yesterday. Certainly this wasn’t the place to bring that up. And now I understand I should have kept that secret as I was asked to.
As someone said if I am not giving all the information and backing it up with proof other than my word it should have remain untold.
As I certainly won’t shared all what was said during the interview with this person before the show in Lima, I would like if possible that any admin/mods to delete the messages.
Again, I am sorry for causing this trouble in the forum.
I appreciate the words of concern towards me. This is such a special place and you guys mean a lot to me. Please accept my apologies.
Best,
JP

This post is the very definition of 'class.'

As others have already stated, you are valued here...I value you and your insight.

An apology certainly wasn't 'necessary,' but owning your misstep is a huge mark of character in my book.

Hope everything with your dad is on an upswing.

James

[ZirconBlue]

I hadn't heard any Redemption until this week when Spotify recommended "Black and White World" to me.  I quite like the song and am now looking to hear some more.  Where's a good place to start?

[MinistroRaven]

Where's a good place to start?

Snowfall on Judgment Day

[DTwwbwMP]

Where's a good place to start?

Snowfall on Judgment Day

 

[cramx3]

Since when do public statements actually tell the truth about what the real dealings are? I mean, it's possible they do, but you know as well as I do that it's not always the case.

Yeah I feel this way.  I don't really follow this closely to have any idea on who is right or wrong, but I'd like to pose the thought that it's possible no one is wrong here.  Being a dispute, there's going to be different sides to the story.  As with many things, the truth is likely in the middle. 

Also, +1 on Ministro for taking some flak like a man.

[goo-goo]

Where's a good place to start?

Snowfall on Judgment Day

+1

[bosk1]

Where's a good place to start?

Snowfall on Judgment Day

This is the way.

[TAC]

Any of the Ray albums are great. My personal fave is This Mortal Coil.

[me7]

The Fullness of Time

[T-ski]

Where's a good place to start?

Snowfall on Judgment Day

+1

+2

[wolfking]

Where's a good place to start?

Snowfall on Judgment Day

+1

+2

+3