The official Redemption thread v. I Am the Storm - March 17th 2023

[Ben_Jamin]

Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations.  I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!

I kid... he ignores my PMs.

Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)

My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray.  I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.

Now this is an entirely different situation all together. Due to the fact this isn't personally related to Nicks Identity and Personality, It's related to the Product he puts out. It's more a business deal he promised Fans, and fans feel not prioritized. But, we are not musicians that use Kickstater, so we don't know how that works. It could be The Label handled their end of it, and got their products first. While the Nick/the band, handles everything related to the kickstarter on their own, they got the products later than the labels, and then began grouping all the orders, making sure everyone is getting the right perks, and then packaging and shipping them out. If Nick was doing that alone, I could the reason for the delay, as that is a lot of work, to sort out the Merch, and Sign the stuff that needs to be signed.

He shouldn't have to post an apology. Fans should not expect an apology. Why do fans feel they are entitled to an apology? I certainly do not expect one. I chose to pay my money, and risk the crowdfunding. I am sour because there was a band that did a Crowdfunding and I never got the package, There was nothing I could do about it. They basically took the money and ran, and there are bands that do this, those are things Misha and Herman Li talked about, and was a damn good Twitch Stream (makes me think it's why they shut his twitter down  ...I kid).

[ronnibran]

Meh, his comment was in a private post (as far as I can tell from what I read here), and who knows what this other guy was saying to him before what he said, so I think its a non-issue.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.  And also don't think its right to judge anyone's character from one little sliver in time, especially if it wasn't even meant to be shown to public (and on top of that with no context behind it).

I have no clue what Nick is like as a person, but I do know he is one of my favorite song writers  (Redemption is a top 5 band for me). 

[cramx3]

What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board?

For one, he's posted here before so he knows there's fans here.

Second, pretty much everything you said. 

There's a lot to be said about his situation, many things that maybe he can clear the air on.  I'm literally on the edge of following or not following the band based on if he has something to say (and I understand it may not be here).  The problem for me with not just brushing it off as facebook BS, is that I actually trust the sources here even if the means of exposure aren't ideal or something I really agree with.  Even if he just apologized, I'd be cool.  People pop off as mentioned before.  I've done it.  I just have no other context to rely on other than people I trust.

[TAC]

My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray.  I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.

Not sure why you feel we got ignored (I did the Kickstarter). I think the issue was that the platform didn't send updates even though the updates were posted at the KS page. Granted, he could have followed with emails or something, but the way I handled was visiting the page once a week. The last update was for people who wanted to the whole band to sign it to send him a note and I send him a note. I haven't received the BR so I'm assuming I'll be getting one signed by the whole band. (I hope LOL).

He routinely went months without any communication / update, and then as soon as they had the AFM deal, all the focus was there.  People who bought from AFM or wherever in the market had the release a full month before most backers.

Wow, that's a fucking rip.

It still amazes me that people even donate to an album that's not even made.

[The Walrus]

I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.

I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?

[Ben_Jamin]

In the end, I really hate facebook culture.  I think that's a huge part of the problem.  Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.

This is my main thought on this. American political culture has really gone to a very bad place over the last few years, and the format and culture of social media probably makes it worse.

I think a lot of people who were once decent and clear-minded have completely lost their heads in recent years. I've definitely seen it happen. I have my own views of why, but I don't really want to go there. I just think it's a regrettable trend that has affected a lot of people and seems to be what's at play here.

I also think we're heading for a moment when at least some musicians and other celebrities start to rethink the more personal relationships with their fans that they've been able to cultivate online. I think that's something that seems like a nice idea, but leads to problems when there are personal disagreements and clashes, as there inevitably are. The more of yourself you put out there, the more people are going to find to object to, which isn't good for business and isn't good for stress-free living. That's true even if you're a really calm, level-headed person, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

  You should've seen the people's heads. And all the pieces of brain that were on the streets after John Dolmayan from System of A Down, said he was voting Trump. And Serj said they were still friends, even though they disagreed. Then more head pieces were needing to be picked of the street. 

[cramx3]

My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray.  I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.

Not sure why you feel we got ignored (I did the Kickstarter). I think the issue was that the platform didn't send updates even though the updates were posted at the KS page. Granted, he could have followed with emails or something, but the way I handled was visiting the page once a week. The last update was for people who wanted to the whole band to sign it to send him a note and I send him a note. I haven't received the BR so I'm assuming I'll be getting one signed by the whole band. (I hope LOL).

He routinely went months without any communication / update, and then as soon as they had the AFM deal, all the focus was there.  People who bought from AFM or wherever in the market had the release a full month before most backers.

Wow, that's a fucking rip.

It still amazes me that people even donate to an album that's not even made.

Yea, as a backer as well, thought communication was poor until all the people who just bought it when it was on sale.  Got no issues with the band signatures given covid.  I got mine without the full band because I didn't want to wait any longer. 

[ronnibran]

I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.

I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?

I was trying to take the high road by saying I give him the benefit of the doubt...  But I get what you're saying.  You're not wrong either.

[wolfking]

I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.

I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?

I wouldn't think he'd be rich mate. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.

I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?

Yeah, like the Guitarist from Labyrinth totally ignoring me when I was talking to him.  I didn't care, I said hi, and told him good job and let him on his way. This was in the courtyard. I know darn well, not to assume everyone is friendly there, because not everyone is. That's just the facts of going to events where many different types of people go to. You should never, ever, let your guard down at events, even if people seem friendly. As I said, people have Personas they can put on when in public. I do my best not to, what you see is exactly me. I don't think I would've sat on those Ants if I had a Persona on...

I wasn't at Progpower to make friends, If I did make friends then it's cool and appreciate the time spent. I went to hear the music I enjoy, played by bands I will never get the chance to see live, and I am seizing that moment. Meeting the bands too in the courtyard and at the festival itself, is just a treat and an extra perk of the festival, and I seized that opportunity to.


That's another thing too. People put on an Online Persona as well, besides their Public Persona. For some reason, a lot people put on an Asshole Persona, and end up typing words they don't mean or won't really say in a Face to Face conversation. There's a vast difference in saying things on the spot, and typing it out which gives you the opportunity to edit your thoughts. It'd be hilarious to see people type in the way we speak, meaning a constant flow without a chance for editing what was said, in this way the spelling and grammar would be horrible.    Maybe we need to require facebook and twitter to repeat our posts back to us in the voice of MICROSOFT SAM, to show us how ridiculous the words we type sound when actually spoken verbally.

[Ben_Jamin]

Meh, his comment was in a private post (as far as I can tell from what I read here), and who knows what this other guy was saying to him before what he said, so I think its a non-issue.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.  And also don't think its right to judge anyone's character from one little sliver in time, especially if it wasn't even meant to be shown to public (and on top of that with no context behind it).

I have no clue what Nick is like as a person, but I do know he is one of my favorite song writers  (Redemption is a top 5 band for me).

 

[Ben_Jamin]

What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board?

For one, he's posted here before so he knows there's fans here.

Second, pretty much everything you said. 

There's a lot to be said about his situation, many things that maybe he can clear the air on.  I'm literally on the edge of following or not following the band based on if he has something to say (and I understand it may not be here).  The problem for me with not just brushing it off as facebook BS, is that I actually trust the sources here even if the means of exposure aren't ideal or something I really agree with.  Even if he just apologized, I'd be cool.  People pop off as mentioned before.  I've done it.  I just have no other context to rely on other than people I trust.

Did those sources give you more information that we don't know or can't comprehend from the Facebook posts alone?

[cramx3]

What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board?

For one, he's posted here before so he knows there's fans here.

Second, pretty much everything you said. 

There's a lot to be said about his situation, many things that maybe he can clear the air on.  I'm literally on the edge of following or not following the band based on if he has something to say (and I understand it may not be here).  The problem for me with not just brushing it off as facebook BS, is that I actually trust the sources here even if the means of exposure aren't ideal or something I really agree with.  Even if he just apologized, I'd be cool.  People pop off as mentioned before.  I've done it.  I just have no other context to rely on other than people I trust.

Did those sources give you more information that we don't know or can't comprehend from the Facebook posts alone?

Not really , I feel like I've said about as much as I know. I'm not directly involved in this.  I've only heard one side to the story.

I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.

While I once again don't know what being a rich guy has anything to do with it, the general point is kind of where I'm leaning towards.

[wolfking]

Meh, his comment was in a private post (as far as I can tell from what I read here), and who knows what this other guy was saying to him before what he said, so I think its a non-issue.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.  And also don't think its right to judge anyone's character from one little sliver in time, especially if it wasn't even meant to be shown to public (and on top of that with no context behind it).

I have no clue what Nick is like as a person, but I do know he is one of my favorite song writers  (Redemption is a top 5 band for me).

I'm in line with this.

The new DVD is great too.  I really enjoy it.  Nick is such a dominant figure on stage.  I never realised fully the presence he has.

[jingle.boy]

Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations.  I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!

I kid... he ignores my PMs.

Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)

My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray.  I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.

He shouldn't have to post an apology. Fans should not expect an apology. Why do fans feel they are entitled to an apology? I certainly do not expect one. I chose to pay my money, and risk the crowdfunding.

I never said I wanted or expected an apology, just stated what *my* beef with him was.

[wolfking]

Don't see Nick coming on here now and trying to justify himself. 

[v_clortho]

I don't know Nick other than he's a musician that I like.
Nick doesn't know me at all.
I had a friend that got the same cancer that Nick had.
I reached out to Nick on this forum privately and asked if my friend could contact him.
He didn't need to reply. I wasn't sure he would since he isn't here much.
He did and was very receptive to my friend contacting him with any questions he would have.
Nick could not have been more helpful.
So if we're going to start making private messages public I'd like to add this one. I won't post what he wrote to me but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for Nick.

[wolfking]

I don't know Nick other than he's a musician that I like.
Nick doesn't know me at all.
I had a friend that got the same cancer that Nick had.
I reached out to Nick on this forum privately and asked if my friend could contact him.
He didn't need to reply. I wasn't sure he would since he isn't here much.
He did and was very receptive to my friend contacting him with any questions he would have.
Nick could not have been more helpful.
So if we're going to start making private messages public I'd like to add this one. I won't post what he wrote to me but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for Nick.

Good stuff.

[The Walrus]

Wealth being mentioned because he's out of touch and really has it in for... I'm not getting political here never mind

[wolfking]

Nick has always been amazing when posting on here also.

I will say though, when you put yourself in the situation where you can interact with one of your fav musicians, you have to be prepared for both ends of the spectrum.  I can understand people being salty if he was a bit off, but you have to accept that fact when you put yourself in the situation.

I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe.  Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt.  Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing.  I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.  In fact, I'd be the same if not more over it.  But it does leave a bitter taste in your mouth and it did leave an impression with me on the band moving forward.  To be fair though, I'm not sure why I expected anything different but I'd prefer now not to even put myself in that situation.  I'd rather have my own image of who they are and what they would be like. 

I do agree I have no problem with musicians being assholes (Schaffer, Malmsteen etc.) but it might be a different story if it was directed at me I suppose.  But saying that, I'd be an asshole to me too. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations.  I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!

I kid... he ignores my PMs.

Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)

My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray.  I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.

He shouldn't have to post an apology. Fans should not expect an apology. Why do fans feel they are entitled to an apology? I certainly do not expect one. I chose to pay my money, and risk the crowdfunding.

I never said I wanted or expected an apology, just stated what *my* beef with him was.

That wasn't meant towards you, sorry if you took it like that. I was reading the comments on the Facebook page Cram linked and put that as a general opinion.

[cramx3]

He shouldn't have to give an apology, just saying, if that were what his response was, I'd easily move on

[TAC]

I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe.  Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt.  Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing.  I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night. 

There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.

[wolfking]

I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe.  Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt.  Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing.  I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night. 

There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.

That's a fair point mate, and I actually never thought of it that way.  They weren't rude per say, just really gave the couldn't be fucking bothered vibe across and we were like cattle going through a production line.  They were just there to get paid and didn't really care about meeting the fans.  Seems as they get a bit more popular their gratitude starts to slide.  I regret paying the money for it.  We waited way longer than we were supposed to also.  We had to wait in line for the meet and greet for almost 2 hours while I think 5 people had their guitar lesson thing with Tremonti.  Why we had to get there but stand in line while the private guitar clinic was on was beyond me.  I thought about going to the clinic but didn't want to pay that much more again.  He's a good guitarist and all but not a guitar legend that I really could learn a whole heap from if I want to be arrogant.

But yeah, I never thought of that mate.  That makes me even more pissed now. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Nick has always been amazing when posting on here also.

I will say though, when you put yourself in the situation where you can interact with one of your fav musicians, you have to be prepared for both ends of the spectrum.  I can understand people being salty if he was a bit off, but you have to accept that fact when you put yourself in the situation.

I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe.  Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt.  Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing.  I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.  In fact, I'd be the same if not more over it.  But it does leave a bitter taste in your mouth and it did leave an impression with me on the band moving forward.  To be fair though, I'm not sure why I expected anything different but I'd prefer now not to even put myself in that situation.  I'd rather have my own image of who they are and what they would be like. 

I do agree I have no problem with musicians being assholes (Schaffer, Malmsteen etc.) but it might be a different story if it was directed at me I suppose.  But saying that, I'd be an asshole to me too. 

Like V_Clortho said with "if we're going to start making private messages public", wouldn't that be the same as taking out Dirty Laundry. Everyone has Dirty Laundry. Musicians are no different. I don't hold them in a high regard because I know they have dirty laundry, being musicians and more famous and being able to be let into areas we are not, it's guaranteed they are capable of having more Dirtier Laundry than we do. No one is a Saint.

Whistleblowers....


By the way, When I went to a Meet and Greet with Megadeth. I asked Dave Something, I forgot what it was, and he just looked up and did the annoying laugh, and I went down the line, I was about 16-17 at the time. I was like "Fucking Ass" but I knew he was an ass, as the next tour Megadeth played, my friend told me His guitar wasn't working for the opening song where it's a guitar only intro, so he took it off and threw it tossed it, and walked off. That still doesn't affect my enjoyment of the songs Megadeth makes nor going to see them live.

[jingle.boy]

I had the same experience in a Kamelot Meet 'n' Greet.  Cattle lined up to go behind a screen where the band was sitting at a table, and maybe people got one sentence or question in, or just a 'thanks; big fan' kinda thing.  Like you said about AB, Kade, they weren't rude, just going thru the motions.  Then we all loop around again for a photo op behind a huge-ass banner.  They did seem a little more energetic for that.

As opposed to the Everygrey MnG ... the whole band just hung out at the bar (exact same venue) for 45 minutes, shot the shit, took selfies, drank beers.  Very cool of them - but that's how Tom and Henrik and the gang are.

[TAC]

Kamelot meet and greet? What did that set you back? $10?

[wolfking]

I had the same experience in a Kamelot Meet 'n' Greet.  Cattle lined up to go behind a screen where the band was sitting at a table, and maybe people got one sentence or question in, or just a 'thanks; big fan' kinda thing.  Like you said about AB, Kade, they weren't rude, just going thru the motions.  Then we all loop around again for a photo op behind a huge-ass banner.  They did seem a little more energetic for that.

As opposed to the Everygrey MnG ... the whole band just hung out at the bar (exact same venue) for 45 minutes, shot the shit, took selfies, drank beers.  Very cool of them - but that's how Tom and Henrik and the gang are.

Exactly how the AB one went.

That Evergrey one sounded amazing.  Tom does seem like a very gracious person.

[wolfking]

Kamelot meet and greet? What did that set you back? $10?

 

[Ben_Jamin]

I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe.  Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt.  Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing.  I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night. 

There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.

That's a fair point mate, and I actually never thought of it that way.  They weren't rude per say, just really gave the couldn't be fucking bothered vibe across and we were like cattle going through a production line.  They were just there to get paid and didn't really care about meeting the fans.  Seems as they get a bit more popular their gratitude starts to slide.  I regret paying the money for it.  We waited way longer than we were supposed to also.  We had to wait in line for the meet and greet for almost 2 hours while I think 5 people had their guitar lesson thing with Tremonti.  Why we had to get there but stand in line while the private guitar clinic was on was beyond me.  I thought about going to the clinic but didn't want to pay that much more again.  He's a good guitarist and all but not a guitar legend that I really could learn a whole heap from if I want to be arrogant.

But yeah, I never thought of that mate.  That makes me even more pissed now. 

I am reading "The Business of Concert Promotion and Touring" I looked up Fans in the appendix and found a couple of pages mentioning Fans. I will read this book more because it mentions "Type of (Fans)" which there are 4 types of Fans that will attend a show. The things I am reading in that book are why I am saying the things I am saying regarding this situation. It's why I mention "Fan Entitlement."

The Business doesn't work the way fans think it does. And there are things that are uncertain in how it should work. It's eye opening regarding what we really know.

[jingle.boy]

Kamelot meet and greet? What did that set you back? $10?

CANADIAN!!

[wolfking]

I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe.  Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt.  Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing.  I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night. 

There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.

That's a fair point mate, and I actually never thought of it that way.  They weren't rude per say, just really gave the couldn't be fucking bothered vibe across and we were like cattle going through a production line.  They were just there to get paid and didn't really care about meeting the fans.  Seems as they get a bit more popular their gratitude starts to slide.  I regret paying the money for it.  We waited way longer than we were supposed to also.  We had to wait in line for the meet and greet for almost 2 hours while I think 5 people had their guitar lesson thing with Tremonti.  Why we had to get there but stand in line while the private guitar clinic was on was beyond me.  I thought about going to the clinic but didn't want to pay that much more again.  He's a good guitarist and all but not a guitar legend that I really could learn a whole heap from if I want to be arrogant.

But yeah, I never thought of that mate.  That makes me even more pissed now. 

I am reading "The Business of Concert Promotion and Touring" I looked up Fans in the appendix and found a couple of pages mentioning Fans. I will read this book more because it mentions "Type of (Fans)" which there are 4 types of Fans that will attend a show. The things I am reading in that book are why I am saying the things I am saying regarding this situation. It's why I mention "Fan Entitlement."

The Business doesn't work the way fans think it does. And there are things that are uncertain in how it should work. It's eye opening regarding what we really know.

Not sure what you are referring at with me mate, but I've kind of been agreeing with you on this.

I didn't expect them to spend a lot of time with every person, just a bit more gracious and interactive.

[Nick]

Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?

[jingle.boy]

Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?

Pretty much.  And any chance to take shots at you is a good thing.

[wolfking]

Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?

Yep.