The Israel Discussion Thread

[Adami]

I agree.. I wish Benjiman was more like the amazing Abbas and Hamas, those Pal guys are all about peace. The issue is Netenyahu, the nerve of this guy trying to protect Israel. what a dope... dont forget its all about land.. nothing more, if they just had ever single yard they want, utopia would happen. and I mean Egypt is solid , a steadfast friend on the south, dont sweat the Muslim Bortherhood, its just an Arab Spring!!!.. and Lebanon is going fine, no issues there.
Livni.. yea shes got the answers!!!

I would respectfully ask you to stay out of discussing Israel if you lack the ability to do so properly.

[EPICVIEW]

I agree.. I wish Benjiman was more like the amazing Abbas and Hamas, those Pal guys are all about peace. The issue is Netenyahu, the nerve of this guy trying to protect Israel. what a dope... dont forget its all about land.. nothing more, if they just had ever single yard they want, utopia would happen. and I mean Egypt is solid , a steadfast friend on the south, dont sweat the Muslim Bortherhood, its just an Arab Spring!!!.. and Lebanon is going fine, no issues there.
Livni.. yea shes got the answers!!!

I would respectfully ask you to stay out of discussing Israel if you lack the ability to do so properly.

HUH? Israel needs to go back to the 1948 lines!!! all problems will be solved..thats what the issue is!!

[rumborak]

That is definitely visible to the outside, that Netanyahu isn't really interested in changing the status quo.

rumborak

He has no real goals aside of staying in power. This current situation keeps him in power.

BTW, why does refer Netanyahu as the 1967 border as "indefensible"? It seems to me that given those borders were UN mandated those considerations were taken into acccount.

rumborak

[Adami]

That is definitely visible to the outside, that Netanyahu isn't really interested in changing the status quo.

rumborak

He has no real goals aside of staying in power. This current situation keeps him in power.

BTW, why does refer Netanyahu as the 1967 border as "indefensible"? It seems to me that given those borders were UN mandated those considerations were taken into acccount.

rumborak

I assume it would mean less control. Israel has existed for over 40 years without the 67 borders and has built the defense system around the current borders. Would it ACTUALLY be indefensible? No. It would just mean they'd have to revamp their current defense system, which they should do anyway.

[EPICVIEW]

That is definitely visible to the outside, that Netanyahu isn't really interested in changing the status quo.

rumborak

He has no real goals aside of staying in power. This current situation keeps him in power.

BTW, why does refer Netanyahu as the 1967 border as "indefensible"? It seems to me that given those borders were UN mandated those considerations were taken into acccount.

rumborak

Golan.

[rumborak]

That is definitely visible to the outside, that Netanyahu isn't really interested in changing the status quo.

rumborak

He has no real goals aside of staying in power. This current situation keeps him in power.

BTW, why does refer Netanyahu as the 1967 border as "indefensible"? It seems to me that given those borders were UN mandated those considerations were taken into acccount.

rumborak

I assume it would mean less control. Israel has existed for over 40 years without the 67 borders and has built the defense system around the current borders. Would it ACTUALLY be indefensible? No. It would just mean they'd have to revamp their current defense system, which they should do anyway.

I guess Obama's wider point was also that if you are no longer in a military stalemate, you don't need "defensible borders".

rumborak

[Adami]

While they don't really need to worry too much about the Palestinians, they do actually need to worry about Syria. Especially right now, if Syria would start a war with Israel, it would help Syria out a whole lot.

[rumborak]

You really think? It seems Syria has too many inner issues, and a war with another country would rather exacerbate those issues rather than assuage them.

rumborak

[Adami]

You really think? It seems Syria has too many inner issues, and a war with another country would rather exacerbate those issues rather than assuage them.

rumborak

Not really. It would give the Syrian people a common enemy with their government. It would serve as a hell of a distraction for the gov of Syria. "Hey...you think WE'RE bad? Look at what Israel is doing!"

How else do you think Syria was able to take over Lebanon unofficially?

[EPICVIEW]

While they don't really need to worry too much about the Palestinians, they do actually need to worry about Syria. Especially right now, if Syria would start a war with Israel, it would help Syria out a whole lot.

Thats why Israel needs to listen to Obama and give the Golan back( thats the 1967 border).. that will help Israel's security to give up that strategic land.!! Syria is solid.! 1967 borders are perfect!! The time is now if not sooner to go back to the 1967 border.Netnayahu is just wasting time to not hand it over, Benji is looking for a conflict as he is not a good peace time PM, thats why he wont hand it back now

[Adami]

While they don't really need to worry too much about the Palestinians, they do actually need to worry about Syria. Especially right now, if Syria would start a war with Israel, it would help Syria out a whole lot.

Thats why Israel needs to listen to Obama and give the Golan back.. that will help Israel's security to give up that strategic land.!! Syria is solid. Obama has no worries about it!! 1967 borders are perfect!! The time is now if not sooner to go back to the 1967 border.Netnayahu is just wasting time to not hand it over, Benji is looking for a conflict as he is not a good peace time PM, thats why he wont hand it back now

If you don't stop, I am going to report you.

[EPICVIEW]

While they don't really need to worry too much about the Palestinians, they do actually need to worry about Syria. Especially right now, if Syria would start a war with Israel, it would help Syria out a whole lot.

Thats why Israel needs to listen to Obama and give the Golan back.. that will help Israel's security to give up that strategic land.!! Syria is solid. Obama has no worries about it!! 1967 borders are perfect!! The time is now if not sooner to go back to the 1967 border.Netnayahu is just wasting time to not hand it over, Benji is looking for a conflict as he is not a good peace time PM, thats why he wont hand it back now

If you don't stop, I am going to report you.

again? huh?? the Golan is a real issue, Syria wants it back before any talks can take place( well documented) Im dealing in facts! and thats part of the 1967 border that Obama has made a subject. are we not free to talk on the subject? or to state how one feels about the subject? Rumboroak asked about why the term "Indefensible borders and 1967" are being said by Benji and are confusing, and thats the issue..the Golan Heights, but its not being talked about as part of the issue on most news. Lets hope he gives it back! Ehud Barak Im sure would agree. and Israel needs him as PM  I think

[rumborak]

You really think? It seems Syria has too many inner issues, and a war with another country would rather exacerbate those issues rather than assuage them.

rumborak

Not really. It would give the Syrian people a common enemy with their government. It would serve as a hell of a distraction for the gov of Syria. "Hey...you think WE'RE bad? Look at what Israel is doing!"

How else do you think Syria was able to take over Lebanon unofficially?

I see your point, but I can also see it going both ways. Especially since Israel hasn't done any outright act of hostility lately, I would think the Syrian public could also use an unnecessary war as yet another reason to topple the government.

rumborak

[Adami]

You really think? It seems Syria has too many inner issues, and a war with another country would rather exacerbate those issues rather than assuage them.

rumborak

Not really. It would give the Syrian people a common enemy with their government. It would serve as a hell of a distraction for the gov of Syria. "Hey...you think WE'RE bad? Look at what Israel is doing!"

How else do you think Syria was able to take over Lebanon unofficially?

I see your point, but I can also see it going both ways. Especially since Israel hasn't done any outright act of hostility lately, I would think the Syrian public could also use an unnecessary war as yet another reason to topple the government.

rumborak

I'm just telling you how things generally work down there. Getting into a war with Israel is the best possible decision for a country who's people are getting pissed off at their government. Usually though it's not a direct war, which is why groups like Hamas and Hezbollah exist, if real armies attacked Israel, it would be a bad PR move, but since neither group is an official army, then when they attack Israel, no country has to take direct responsibility and can claim to be the victim.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

While they don't really need to worry too much about the Palestinians, they do actually need to worry about Syria. Especially right now, if Syria would start a war with Israel, it would help Syria out a whole lot.

Thats why Israel needs to listen to Obama and give the Golan back.. that will help Israel's security to give up that strategic land.!! Syria is solid. Obama has no worries about it!! 1967 borders are perfect!! The time is now if not sooner to go back to the 1967 border.Netnayahu is just wasting time to not hand it over, Benji is looking for a conflict as he is not a good peace time PM, thats why he wont hand it back now

If you don't stop, I am going to report you.

In the future Adami, just report it. You don't need to tell anyone off.

As for EPICVIEW, he really didn't do anything wrong. I mean, he's no expert on Israel, but he didn't say anything out of line.

[Adami]

Oh I know, that's why I didn't report it. He just wasn't adding anything to the discussion with his sarcastic overly biased replies. I figured maybe he'd assume I was in the mossad and would be scared.

[King Postwhore]

Adami.  I think you'd like to read what Gene Simmons thinks about the 1967 border.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kiss-rocker-gives-kiss-obamas-israeli-bo

[Rathma]

Maybe Obama doesn't care about the Golan borders since he was talking 1967 borders in the context of the Palestinian state?

[Adami]

Maybe Obama doesn't care about the Golan borders since he was talking 1967 borders in the context of the Palestinian state?

A fair point since the Palestinians have no claim in the slightest to Golan.

[EPICVIEW]

again, Obama stated Israel needs to go back to the 1967 borders...that includes the Golan., hence why Bneji said its "indefensible".. pretty obvious stuff..this is an old subject, and the Jordan Valley of course

I say Israel should go back to the 1948 borders that Hamas is now stating that they want, and Israel as per Obama will need to negotiate with Hamas. Hamas knows 1967 borders are already done as far as it being theirs, so now 1948 is on the table, or connecting  the country between Gaza and the West Bank with land from Israel ( thats the swap...)

that way Israels water supply can be regualated by Hamas-Fatah. even under the 1967 borders.

I scratch my head why this is not obvious stuff to anyone who studies these subjects for 30 years like me

[Adami]

Anyway, as far as I know Obama said the Palestinian state should be based on the 1967 borders, but the Palestinian state has nothing to do with Golan.

[Rathma]

I scratch my head why this is not obvious stuff to anyone who studies these subjects for 30 years like me

You just had to ruin your brilliantly sarcastic post by drawing attention to your superiority over all us laymen, didn't you?

[juice]

Eh, I took it as his way to validate his sarcastic post.

[Super Dude]

I scratch my head why this is not obvious stuff to anyone who studies these subjects for 30 years like me

You just had to ruin your brilliantly sarcastic post by drawing attention to your superiority over all us laymen, didn't you?

As with any troll, it's best we just ignore it.

[Rathma]

Epicview has a point though. Why would Israel want to give back the Golan Heights? It's not like there were a lot of Syrians there when Israel took over. Some of them probably got Israeli citizenship and are quite happy. From what I hear the Syrian military was shelling Israel every day when they had the territory.

[rumborak]

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he was rather using "1967" as the amount of land that Palestine should have.

rumborak

[Perpetual Change]

I have no idea what's going on here, and Wiki isn't helping. Who can give me the cliff-notes version?

[EPICVIEW]

I have no idea what's going on here, and Wiki isn't helping. Who can give me the cliff-notes version?

Hi PC, what topic would you like to discuss that is confusing you?

I watched Benji at AIPAC last night.. I so wish he would just give up, and call for early elections in Israel, Hamas is not a big fan of Benjis.

[Perpetual Change]

I don't get the issue with the boundary, and when I read headlines like "Blah blah blah 1967 blah blah blah" I don't even bother reading the article because that sort of information about dates and stuff means absolutely nothing to me.

[EPICVIEW]

I don't get the issue with the boundary, and when I read headlines like "Blah blah blah 1967 blah blah blah" I don't even bother reading the article because that sort of information about dates and stuff means absolutely nothing to me.

Obama has stated that he is changing all prior US positions , verbally supporting the non defensible pre 1967 Israelis border, its been a huge topic in the American media,. Obama has gone back on the prior commtiments by congress that GWB put forward to allow this policy of support of Israels view that the 1967 borders can not be negotiated outside of Israel, that congress voted 95-0 in 100% support of Israel in 2004. but Obama decided that he wont suppor that, and that an agreement with an ally, and that American iron clad  long standing policy is really worthless with Obama. Obama handed Hamas-Fatah what they wanted without having to give up anything. So Fatah briging in Hamas is not even an issue..

the 1967 borders are in refernece tot he 6 day war that Israel was attacked on, and that Israel took land after being attacked. Egypt negotiated peace with Saddat to get the return of Sanai..Israel got not much in that agreement, a cold peace at best

[El Barto]

I don't get the issue with the boundary, and when I read headlines like "Blah blah blah 1967 blah blah blah" I don't even bother reading the article because that sort of information about dates and stuff means absolutely nothing to me.

During the 6 Day war in '67, Israel annexed several chunks of land, including the Gaza Strip, the West Bank of the River Jordan, part of Jerusalem, and The Golan Heights.  Obama apparently thinks they should give them back now.  Netanyahu says they're vital to the defense of Israel.  The Golan Heights is a highly strategic border territory with Syria, which still doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist, so he's probably right about that one.  

[EPICVIEW]

I don't get the issue with the boundary, and when I read headlines like "Blah blah blah 1967 blah blah blah" I don't even bother reading the article because that sort of information about dates and stuff means absolutely nothing to me.

During the 6 Day war in '67, Israel annexed several chunks of land, including the Gaza Strip, the West Bank of the River Jordan, part of Jerusalem, and The Golan Heights.  Obama apparently thinks they should give them back now.  Netanyahu says they're vital to the defense of Israel.  The Golan Heights is a highly strategic border territory with Syria, which still doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist, so he's probably right about that one.  

well said EB, I almost said the same thing at the same time!

[Adami]

Once more, Obama said the Palestinian state should be drawn along the 1967 borders. That has nothing to do with Golan, nothing at all.

[rumborak]

the 1967 borders are in refernece tot he 6 day war that Israel wa attacked on

You supposedly spent 30 years "researching" this topic, and then claim Israel was attacked first? Dude, even Israel conceded that they instigated it, calling it a "preemptive measure". Whether it was justifiable might be a topic of controversy, but what credence can we give to your ramblings if you can't even get the most basic facts straight?

rumborak

[Adami]

the 1967 borders are in refernece tot he 6 day war that Israel wa attacked on

You supposedly spent 30 years "researching" this topic, and then claim Israel was attacked first? Dude, even Israel conceded that they instigated it, calling it a "preemptive measure".

rumborak

To be fair, they had good reason. It wasn't exactly "hey what do you wanna do today?" "I dunno.....how about we bomb egypt?"