Wrestling - Road to Wrestlemania 29

[Ħ]

Right now? I would say Cena's a better candidate than Punk. HHH if he goes back to wrestling. Taker if he wrestled more. Before they left, HBK and Edge. I'm not picking a particular wrestler as the "most complete package", but I do think they all beat out Punk who is just average.

[Jaffa]

Well, tally up another subject that you and I don't see eye to eye on, H.      But fair enough. 

[Ħ]

But seriously, what is so great about Punk? When he talks, he comes across as a whiny punk ( ). And his wrestling is just a run-of-the-mill, forgettable high-flying style. He's just not that cool, I guess.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

But seriously, what is so great about Punk? When he talks, he comes across as a whiny punk ( ). And his wrestling is just a run-of-the-mill, forgettable high-flying style. He's just not that cool, I guess.

[Dimitrius]

[Zook]

For one, Punk doesn't have a predictable move set

And Rock is certainly a great talker, but he does stumble over himself a lot, while Punk never does.

[Jaffa]

Well, for starters, I think Punk's promos are generally very convincing.  Watching him talk, I'm able to suspend disbelief and think that he means every damn word he says.  That alone puts him head and shoulders above a lot of the superstars on the roster right now for me.  His promos don't even feel like promos to me half the time - they're just really natural.  When he was doing the Straight Edge Society, my brother hated him - and I mean hated him.  My brother is in his twenties and has known that wrestling is scripted for many years, but CM Punk was able to break that barrier and evoke genuine hatred.  My brother didn't even watch wrestling regularly at that point, but he got back into it just because he wanted to see CM Punk get his ass kicked.  That right there is heel work at its very finest. 

Secondly, I just think he's hilarious.  You can search for 'CM Punk funny moments' on YouTube and find ten minute compilations of great material.  Especially if you look for his promos from the indies – his ‘invisible microphone’ rant is one of my favorite professional wrestling moments ever.  Most of his promos from the so-called ‘summer of Punk’ were pretty damn glorious as well – not just the Pipe Bomb itself, but even just goofy stuff like making ‘snow angels’ in the middle of the ring or going off on John Cena for spilling his diet soda.  That stuff is just golden to me. 

Bottom line is, he just really knows how to get a crowd riled up.  He’s also pretty quick on his feet when it comes to his wit, and I think he’s got great delivery. 


As for in the ring, I don’t hold him as an all-time great or anything, but I do think he has the ability to make any opponent look good.  That’s a rare gift, and it makes for great matches.  You might think of CM Punk as an average wrestler, but ask yourself this: when was the last time you saw a bad CM Punk match?

Anyway, you’re entitled to your opinion, of course.  Just my two cents. 

[Dimitrius]

Fuck, Jesus Punk was such a great heel! Vince really screwed the pooch by killing that angle early!

Yeah, that diet soda comment was fucking hilarious! And I completely agree about his promos not sounding like promos, I also totally believe every word he says. The only other guy (in the current roster) who I feel the same way is Dean Ambrose.

And yes, he's no Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart master technical wrestler in the ring, but he's not so predictable as Cena (in moveset and match format) and  as you said, he can get a good match out of anyone! Hell, that Cena/Punk MitB match is probably Cena's best match of his career! And his bout with Taker at 'Mania was the best Taker match since the first Michaels/Taker.

[Jaffa]

Fuck, Jesus Punk was such a great heel!

Seriously.  My brother wanted to murder him.   

[Dimitrius]

I still remember after Jeff Hardy's last WWE match, the next Smackdown Punk came out to his music and dressed as him and everyone (including me) thought it was Hardy (dude did all his mannerism to a fucking tee!) until the house lights came back on and there was Punk with a huge (troll) smile on his face!

[Jaffa]

Story time.

I was actually in the audience for Jeff Hardy's last WWE match.  That SmackDown was my first time going to a WWE live event, and Jeff Hardy was my favorite wrestler at the time, so it obviously ended up being a pretty huge night for me.  I remember when Punk issued the challenge for a loser-leaves-the-WWE stipulation, I got this sinking feeling in my gut, because I knew that if anybody wanted a break from the WWE, it was Jeff.  And he was, as I said, my favorite at the time, so I wasn't exactly keen on the idea of him leaving the company.

For me as a wrestling fan, that night was magical.  All of my disbelief disappeared during that cage match - I was practically praying for Jeff Hardy to win, even though I had already identified that he wasn't going to.  And when CM Punk's feet hit the floor, I felt absolutely crushed. 

Hardy did his little farewell address, and then when he was leaving, Punk attacked him from behind at the top of the ramp.  I don't think I've ever been louder in my entire life than I was in that moment, booing CM Punk.

I think the televised show ended with CM Punk standing tall on the ramp, so some of you may not know what came next, but after Raw went off the air, CM Punk ran around outside of the ring mocking the audience in the front row, making 'boo-hoo crymoar' gestures at this little girl who was literally crying.  And in that moment, I hated him.  I wanted somebody to come out from the locker and beat him into oblivion.

Which, incidentally, the Undertaker did.  That part definitely wasn’t televised, but the reaction to the gong was absolutely insane.  He came out to tombstone Punk to send us home happy. 

Anyway, I’m rambling, and I’m sorry about that.  The point is, the next week on SmackDown, when Punk came out dressed as Hardy, I realized that Punk was genuinely brilliant at playing the heel.  Because even sitting at home, removed from the adrenaline of the live atmosphere, I hated him again.  I soon remembered that he was intentionally making me hate him, but for one moment, it was totally successful – I hated his guts.  And then, moments later, I just wanted to stand up and applaud.

As a jaded wrestling fan, there aren’t too many moments anymore that draw me in the way I was drawn in as a kid, and Punk’s feud with Hardy managed to do exactly that. 


… I’ll shut up now.  Sorry for the tangent.

[Ħ]

K so he's a good heel. I'll concede that he's above average. But is he the greatest wrestler right now? He's got strong points, but he's up against some tough competition.

EDIT: Sorry to so tersely respond to your awesome story. That is pretty cool and I remember Punk coming out looking like Jeff and being like WTF. I thought Jeff's last match was at a PPV, no? Wasn't it a ladder match or something, where Punk obviously won and then Taker appeared and chokeslammed Punk?

[Zook]

Who's the competition? I think we're talking about "wrestlers" here, not "entertainers".

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are the two best wrestlers in the WWE right now. I haven't seen much of Dean Ambrose other than what he does with The Shield so I can't judge.

[Ħ]

I mean, seriously, are they better than Taker, Trips, and Cena? I doubt it.

[Dimitrius]

There's no "tough" competition for that title in the current WWE roster. No way, no how.

EDIT: Did you just seriously just state that Cena is better than Bryan or Punk? There's no way that's true.

[Zook]

Wreslting ability? YES! YES! YES! YES!

Cena has five moves of doom. It's really unfortunate that his opponents are obligated to throw that punch to set themselves up for his back drop into the 5 Knuckle Shuffle.

[Ħ]

What about Taker and Trips? And I mean as "overall entertainers", not just wrestling ability.

[Dimitrius]

The only place where Cena beats Bryan or Punk is in merchandise sales.

Taker and Triple H are part-timers, and if I were to judge by their two very lackluster WM matches (their last two) I would venture to say yes. But then Taker goes out with Punk and has a great match and then has a very good one with Ambrose a few weeks later to remind us that he is a legend.

[Zook]

What about Taker and Trips? And I mean as "overall entertainers", not just wrestling ability.

Well, for the past 5+ years, the only people Cena is entertaining are 5 year old boys. Everyone else boos him out of the building. Taker is all theatrics these days. I find him to be boring, but I was never a big fan anyway.


EDIT: I AM NOT ACCUSING CENA OF BEING A PEDOPHILE!

[Ħ]

The only place where Cena beats Bryan or Punk is in merchandise sales.

Taker and Triple H are part-timers, and if I were to judge by their two very lackluster WM matches (they're last two) I would venture to say yes. But then Taker goes out with Punk and has a great match and then has a very good one with Ambrose a few weeks later to remind us that he is a legend.

You thought the Taker/HHH wrestlemania matches were poor? I thought they were the best matches of the night! They were certainly ranked very high by reviewers, according to each Wrestlemania's wiki page.

[Zook]

The only place where Cena beats Bryan or Punk is in merchandise sales.

Taker and Triple H are part-timers, and if I were to judge by their two very lackluster WM matches (their last two) I would venture to say yes. But then Taker goes out with Punk and has a great match and then has a very good one with Ambrose a few weeks later to remind us that he is a legend.

I'm guessing this was on NXT?

[Dimitrius]

The only place where Cena beats Bryan or Punk is in merchandise sales.

Taker and Triple H are part-timers, and if I were to judge by their two very lackluster WM matches (their last two) I would venture to say yes. But then Taker goes out with Punk and has a great match and then has a very good one with Ambrose a few weeks later to remind us that he is a legend.

I'm guessing this was on NXT?

Nope, it was on Smackdown.

The only place where Cena beats Bryan or Punk is in merchandise sales.

Taker and Triple H are part-timers, and if I were to judge by their two very lackluster WM matches (they're last two) I would venture to say yes. But then Taker goes out with Punk and has a great match and then has a very good one with Ambrose a few weeks later to remind us that he is a legend.

You thought the Taker/HHH wrestlemania matches were poor? I thought they were the best matches of the night! They were certainly ranked very high by reviewers, according to each Wrestlemania's wiki page.

The first one was entertaining, but the HiaC with Michaels?? Ugh, just one long stall.

[Ħ]

I swear, this CM Punk thing must just be a fad. Along with Majora's Mask being better than Ocarina of Time. And Awake being better than all other DT albums. It's probably the same people that think all three of those things.

[Zook]

I didn't start really liking Punk til the end of his streak. Never played the Zelda games and Images is better than Awake.

He's a cool dude regardless.

[Syzzle]

Yeah he had a 435 day title reign, and he gets the biggest pops behind Daniel Bryan it's definitely a fad.

[BlobVanDam]

I swear, this CM Punk thing must just be a fad. Along with Majora's Mask being better than Ocarina of Time. And Awake being better than all other DT albums. It's probably the same people that think all three of those things.

I hate Majora's Mask and Awake.

But CM Punk is not a fad. WTF. He's easily one of the best wrestlers/entertainers they have right now, with very little competition, and he's gained a following on his own strengths, not because he's been forced down people's throats like Cena.

[KevShmev]

CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are the only reasons I even still watch wrestling at all anymore.  And even with that, I don't watch that much.  I never watch PPVs until they show up on youtube weeks later, I flip through RAW in about 30 minutes after DVRing it, and I couldn't tell you what time or channel Smackdown is on. 

But anyway, both are dynamite in the ring.  Like Shawn Michaels was, Bryan is not that great on the mic, but he is so good in the ring that it doesn't matter.  I mean, he got a good match out of Ryback a while back. Ryback, FFS!!!

[Jaffa]

Sorry to so tersely respond to your awesome story. That is pretty cool and I remember Punk coming out looking like Jeff and being like WTF. I thought Jeff's last match was at a PPV, no? Wasn't it a ladder match or something, where Punk obviously won and then Taker appeared and chokeslammed Punk?

Hardy had a ladder match with CM Punk earlier in their feud, but his last match was a cage match on SmackDown. 

K so he's a good heel. I'll concede that he's above average. But is he the greatest wrestler right now? He's got strong points, but he's up against some tough competition.

Eh, to me, the competition really isn't that tough.  Undertaker has one or two matches a year, so I don't really count him as an active member of the roster.  Same with Triple H.  I'd say that both of these guys were better than Punk in their prime, sure, but right now, I don't even consider them a part of the equation.

As for Cena, I'm not a Cena hater, but I do think he's gotten incredibly stale over the years.  And as far as wrestling ability goes, I think half the roster is better than him, personally.   

[Jaffa]

Sorry for the double post, and for the change of subject, but apparently, Jim Ross is officially retiring.

https://www.wwe.com/inside/jim-ross-to-retire-26147422

I know he hasn't been around much anyway, but this still makes me sad.   

[Ħ]

inb4 the title is revoked due to the fast count

[Dimitrius]

I was actually waiting for Triple H to come out and restart the match. I was very surprise they went out with a clean win.

[Ħ]

No Big Show appearance either, which was surprising. I thought Shield and Show would at least be somehow involved in the main event.

[axeman90210]

Sorry for the double post, and for the change of subject, but apparently, Jim Ross is officially retiring.

https://www.wwe.com/inside/jim-ross-to-retire-26147422

I know he hasn't been around much anyway, but this still makes me sad.   

I read he was basically fired, but they let him retire instead. Evidently JR was moderating a Q&A panel the week of Summerslam, and didn't do a good job of handling a noticeably drunk Ric Flair. I guess the incident caused some embarrassment for WWE in front of their video game partner (the event was to promote WWE 2K14) and some other big sponsors. Supposedly as recently as a week before his retirement he was quoted as saying he had no plans of retiring any time soon.

[Syzzle]

No Big Show appearance either, which was surprising. I thought Shield and Show would at least be somehow involved in the main event.

They were banned from ringside by HHH.

[Ħ]

I know, but that doesn't mean much. Shield could have attacked Bryan when the ref was down, then have Show come out and save the day.

Also, I am happy to say that I was wrong about Punk. I watched his match with an open mind and he is indeed a convincing and entertaining wrestler.