Egyptian Revolution Jan 25th 2011

[zerogravityfat]

he's just another crazy leader, he's reaching a level of self destruction where he is power crazy and will alienate the voters with his out of touch comments. the opposition leader has 35% of the votes according to the polls, erdogan has 45%, with a coalition, the social democrats can take over the control in july.

[EPICVIEW]

he's just another crazy leader, he's reaching a level of self destruction where he is power crazy and will alienate the voters with his out of touch comments. the opposition leader has 35% of the votes according to the polls, erdogan has 45%, with a coalition, the social democrats can take over the control in july.

I will be hoping for a good vote in July!!!!!

[EPICVIEW]

Thousands of people in Jordan have taken to the streets in protests, demanding the country's prime minister step down, and the government curb rising prices, inflation and unemployment.

In the third consecutive Friday of protests, about 3,500 opposition activists from Jordan's main Islamist opposition group, trade unions and leftist organisations gathered in the capital, waving colourful banners reading: "Send the corrupt guys to court".

The crowd denounced Samir Rifai's, the prime minister, and his unpopular policies.

Many shouted: "Rifai go away, prices are on fire and so are the Jordanians.''

Another 2,500 people also took to the streets in six other cities across the country after the noon prayers. Those protests also called for Rifai's ouster.

Members of the Islamic Action Front, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood and Jordan's largest opposition party, swelled the ranks of the demonstrators, massing outside the al-Husseini mosque in Amman and filling the downtown streets with their prayer lines.

King Abdullah has promised some reforms, particularly on a controversial election law. But many believe it is unlikely he will bow to demands for the election of the prime minister and Cabinet officials, traditionally appointed by the king.

Rifai also announced a $550 million package of new subsidies in the last two weeks for fuel and staple products like rice, sugar, livestock and liquefied gas used for heating and cooking. It also includes a raise for civil servants and security personnel.

[zerogravityfat]

White House press secretary is terrible at his job, it is obvious US doesn't want to get screwed by supporting a regime that will most likely overthrown, but they don't want to burn the bridge either. He can't bullshit his way through it to save his life. All he has to preach is we don't interfere with Egypt's internal affairs and urge restraint from violence and get it over with, stop stuttering.

[AndyDT]

EV, you seem to be overlooking a very simple truism, much like your ideological compatriots.  The more you try to repress a religious ideology, the stronger you'll make it.  There are plenty of things you can try to keep down, but once you get into religion, you're really fighting a losing cause.  We're talking about eternal salvation here.  People take that shit very seriously.  You seem to view this thing as a war against Islam.  Not only is that a war that you're not going to win, but it's exactly what empowers the people you're so frightened of.  The more people who adopt your anti-Islam POV, the more people will step up to defend it.  

Mother Teresa said that she wouldn't go on anti-war rallies but would only go on peace rallies.

[lateralus88]

White House press secretary is terrible at his job, it is obvious US doesn't want to get screwed by supporting a regime that will most likely overthrown, but they don't want to burn the bridge either. He can't bullshit his way through it to save his life. All he has to preach is we don't interfere with Egypt's internal affairs and urge restraint from violence and get it over with, stop stuttering.

WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION


God damn, was Gibbs replaced by a broken record?

[EPICVIEW]

White House press secretary is terrible at his job, it is obvious US doesn't want to get screwed by supporting a regime that will most likely overthrown, but they don't want to burn the bridge either. He can't bullshit his way through it to save his life. All he has to preach is we don't interfere with Egypt's internal affairs and urge restraint from violence and get it over with, stop stuttering.

WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION
WE ARE MONITORING THE SITUATION


God damn, was Gibbs replaced by a broken record?

if one likes the word "UH" Gibss is the guy!! LOL

[Chino]

Happened within the hour..

https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9206980/Egypt_s_Internet_block_aims_at_social_media

[El Barto]

White House press secretary is terrible at his job, it is obvious US doesn't want to get screwed by supporting a regime that will most likely overthrown, but they don't want to burn the bridge either. He can't bullshit his way through it to save his life. All he has to preach is we don't interfere with Egypt's internal affairs and urge restraint from violence and get it over with, stop stuttering.

I haven't seen any of it, but that sounds about like what he should be saying.  Of course, a good press secretary will say it well and in such a way that it doesn't sound like bullshit, but it's still the right idea. 

I'm not real familiar with the situation, but this guy's analysis seems to be pretty rock solid. Mubarak should prepare to leave

Mubarak's best option is to offer Egypt a safe landing. He should lift the 30-year state of emergency, renounce his candidacy in Egypt's September 2011 presidential election and allow civil society to prepare for a free and fair election under full international supervision.

The promise of a clear road map for transition will defuse tensions and ensure stability in Egypt and beyond. Exiting politics pragmatically will also guarantee the safety of Mubarak, who is 82, and that of his inner circle.

Change in the region is inevitable. The question remains: What shape and course will it take in each state? The status quo is clearly unsustainable in the long term. Most people simply have had enough of authoritarian rule and are tired of its constraints.

[Progmetty]

Is this gonna continue to be the "EPICVIEW tells people Islam is bad news" so we need a separate thread for Egypt?
Well I'll post here for now, I can't reach my friends or family by phone either now, Egypt is completely isolated, my brother last facebook post said "We won't stop, God be with us", I'm so insanely worried.
Mubarak just spoke on national T.V, he basically said we shouldn't worry and everything will be cool, he's dissolving the government and announcing the new minsters tomorrow, ho-fuckin-rray, that guy is the best ever to play dumb, yeah we had problems with the government Mr. President, we went to the street to let you know so you can save us.
It looks like things are not gonna calm down, but I worry they will.

[7StringedBeast]

I hope your family is alright metty, and I hope everything turns out OK over there.  I would love to see the people get what they want.  From what I see, it seems they are really calling for a government for the people by the people.  Which is the way it should be. 

[Progmetty]

Thank you 7StringedBeast, I hope so too.
Mubarak said "One people, One nation" in his speech man, I find that ironic cause I know for sure he's not aware of it's historical significance, he talked of changing the government but never himself, it's not even imaginable.

[yeshaberto]

metty, I am clueless about what is going on.  can you summarize in a sentence or two?

[Progmetty]

Twp sentences is tough but I'll try:
- Thursday: The president is corrupt, people are rioting in masses of thousands for the first time ever with the help of facebook and twitter.
- Friday: The government shut down the internet, people still on the street, it's 1:30am in Cairo now, people burned down some major government buildings, the president appeared on TV and told us what rang my head as a Conan O'Brien tone "Keep cool my babies" and that he's gonna change the government tomorrow, which in Egypt means change the prime minister and all the ministers, which doesn't mean anything cause the president is the problem.
- Little depth into the problem: The Egyptian government has been corrupt for the last 20 years but super corrupt the last 10 years, basic groceries are becoming harder and harder to afford, nobody gets good jobs or raises at their jobs unless they're connected to someone in a high position. (Or someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone in a high position)
Slightly longer version:
- Mubarak has been president since 1981, I haven't seen other presidents in my life time and as far as I know it's called Mubarak's post, not the presidency, when our previous president Sadat was assassinated Egypt declared "Emergency Law", this means that the government has the right to imprison people without arrest warrants or trials, this came in handy when the extremist groups funded by Iran -who named some streets in their countries after Sadat's killers- pulled some really bad terrorist attacks in Egypt during the 90's, so back then all the alarms against the horrors of the emergency law were silenced, yes arrest and imprison all the suspects if it will make us feel safe.
Year 2000 and up:
- With the introduction of cable TV into lower middle class Egyptians lives (that's 65% of educated Egyptians) and the internet a couple years later; the question of democracy popped out again, especially with the rapid rise of uncovered corruption, as in people acting in a "yes I'm corrupt and you cant do anything about it" manner.
- The Muslim Brotherhood Party which preached against violence and fought the Iranian funded terrorist groups in the 90's started being the only outlet for people who know that the other parties are not unified enough to stand against the NDP (the ruling party) in the parliament, consequently the rounding up of TMB party members under the emergency law started to be something we hear about in the news at least once a month.
- The government started updating it's tactics of distracting the people as clearly football and hot pop stars were not as distracting anymore, at least for most, the new tactics included:
* Potting ways for Muslims and Christians to clash, successfully they managed to do that but on a very low level of people, never see it among college graduates or intellectuals but sadly it became an issue, that disgusting sensitivity aroused and suddenly the unity of the objection to Mubarak sounds weakened.
* Allowing opposition groups to have newspapers and T.V stations, bark as you like, I'm getting the credit of letting you do it and you're not getting anywhere.
- Another point of strength for Mubarak and the NDP is the support of America, America likes Mubarak cause he doesn't let Egyptians involve themselves in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict while they're all dying to go to Gaza and die with the Palestinians, America helps Egypt with 1.5 billion dollars per year, which we don't really see any of and falls in the corrupt hands of the government, now the Egyptian people are really confused by the American support to Mubarak and Clinton's statements the last couple of days, we thought you would like this? no? democracy and such? now https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703956604576110010191338884.html
- The people on the street now has no leader, they are masses of internet dwellers who organized to meet and grew rapidly from there, they are badly fed up and out to die, bit having no leader or spokesman is a major downside in my opinion, they want Mubarak out with eyes on ElBaradei as replacement, ElBaradei has been placed under house arrest in the wake of the protests, I support this man, I won't dwell on his history here so you can read about it on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei
Tired of typing and my thoughts are scrambled, I'll try to continue later.

[Adami]

That was a very good post Metty, thank you for taking the time to type it. I enjoyed reading it and it was very informative.

[ack44]

the president appeared on TV and told us what rang my head as a Conan O'Brien tone "Keep cool my babies" and that he's gonna change the government tomorrow, which in Egypt means change the prime minister and all the ministers, which doesn't mean anything cause the president is the problem.

Oh man, what a douche.

[Progmetty]

You're very welcomed Adami.
It seems like the situation is calming down now, the army hit the streets and people have nothing but respect to the army, the army doesn't use brute force against civilians, the Egyptian police has Gestapo status among Egyptians so you can imagine why people are happy to see the army even though they came in with tanks!
The man who's dismissal is going to be the most essential change in tomorrow's government change is Habib El Adly, minister of interior, our Himmler.

[shadowfex]

Thanks for all the information Metty!

I hope things continue to settle down and some appropriate changes are made to the government.

[yeshaberto]

Metty, that was a great read.  I knew absolutely none of it, and yet you explained it in laymen's terms.  thanks a lot. 

[AndyDT]

How worried is the US about the Suez canal falling into the "wrong" hands?

[Progmetty]

Just spoke to my mother on her land line, she told me it's hard to breath due to the smoke coming from the neighboring burning government buildings like the police station a block away from her apartment.
Neither ElBaradei nor TMB would do anything to stop the traffic going through Suez canal, it became the second most important source of income for Egypt after tourism, there isn't even a possibility of something happening there.
Every time I think things will calm down they start up again, I hope this doesn't stop until he leaves but I will remain pessimistic.

[ack44]

Are any national governments public showing support for the Egyptian people? It can't be easy to defy a 20 year dictator who (what seems to me) has good relations with the U.S. and most other countries.

[emindead]

https://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/01/201112991712140318.html
China won't trend Egypt.

China has blocked the word "Egypt'' from the country's wildly popular Twitter-like service, while  coverage of the political turmoil has been tightly restricted in state media.

China's ruling Communist Party is sensitive to any potential source of social unrest.

A search for "Egypt'' on the Sina microblogging service brings up a message saying, "According to relevant laws, regulations and policies, the search results are not shown".

The service has more than 50 million users.

News on the Egypt protests has been limited to a few paragraphs and photos buried inside major news websites, but China Central Television had a report on its midday broadcast.

China's foreign ministry did not respond to a request for comment Saturday on the events in Egypt.

[ack44]

 

[AndyDT]

Just spoke to my mother on her land line, she told me it's hard to breath due to the smoke coming from the neighboring burning government buildings like the police station a block away from her apartment.
Neither ElBaradei nor TMB would do anything to stop the traffic going through Suez canal, it became the second most important source of income for Egypt after tourism, there isn't even a possibility of something happening there.
Every time I think things will calm down they start up again, I hope this doesn't stop until he leaves but I will remain pessimistic.

I really hope that the world doesn't make a martyr out of ElBaradei after what happened to Benazir Bhutto (RIP). I think in volatile situations too much shouldn't be placed on the shoulders of one person to deliver. Surely better would be a low-key but fairer government, slightly fairer and progressive?

[Progmetty]

The cell phones are back but the internet is still down, I just spoke to my brother on the phone, it's something else down there.
The looting on the outskirts of Cairo has been getting worse, the looters turned into groups, my brother and his wife went to pick up my mom and his step-mother from their separate houses and rushed back to the apartment complex where he lives.
My mother was so scared as she heard the looters talking on loud speaker phones telling the people in the buildings to come down with all precious possessions such as jewelery or electronics, or else they would come up and take it by force.
My brother went from door to door at his building where he lives and gathered the men to hold shifts at the gate, it's now guarded by these guys who are not equipped to be a match for the looters, the looters are not random groups they have history in the country, these guys have no political agenda whatsoever.
My brother spoke with an army officer on top of a tank roaming the streets and he told him that they will be patrolling but they won't be firing at looters, they're under strict orders not to fire and it makes sense cause these guys don't have the "nice" weapons.
The police has been crushed and pushed back to the point where some officers take their uniforms off on the street to avoid the angry mobs recognition.
Now the Ministry of Interior (Police High Command) is being surrounded by thousands and the police officers hiding in there are shooting the people with live rounds to keep them out, eventually they will be over run or out of ammunition and these are some shoes I would so not like to be in when that happens.

[Progmetty]

Surely better would be a low-key but fairer government, slightly fairer and progressive?

Exactly what the protesters want and it's what started them out on facebook on the first place, they wanna feel like they matter, they wanna feel that the government is doing some effort to lie to them and making them feel heard even if they were not, like all other good governments in the world are doing.

[Progmetty]

Are any national governments public showing support for the Egyptian people? It can't be easy to defy a 20 year dictator who (what seems to me) has good relations with the U.S. and most other countries.

Nothing official, it's a weird situation internationally, everyone has a different reason to be afraid to comment.
CNN says there are big protests around the Egyptian embassy in Berlin though and a bigger one in London.
These Egyptians -and Arabs in general- who live in Europe are for the most part people who got fed up with the Arab regimes and their countries and left in the last couple of decades, they're just happy to live and work under what they perceive as fair governments.

EDIT: I didn't wanna double post again so I'll post this here, these are the banners the protesters starting out holding, I find them beautiful and hope they won't be forgotten again (although it's likely, these are the educated people):

[EPICVIEW]

monitoring many news sources... watching the events unfold

Looks we have a response direction out of Iran:

Iranian Regime Takes Credit For Protests Sweeping Arab States …Update: So Does Iranian Opposition
Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, January 29, 2011, 12:59 PM

IRGC Lieutenant Commander General Hossein Salami (Fars)

The Iranian regime took credit for the protests sweeping the Arab world today as the “manifestation of the [Iran's] Islamic Revolution in the Middle East region and the world of Islam.”
Fars News reported:

The present Revolution in Egypt serves as a prelude to more uprisings in the other Arab countries, a senior commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) said on Saturday.

“Egypt is the heart of the Arab world … therefore any political changes or sociopolitical revolutions in Egypt could occur in many other Islamic countries,” IRGC Lieutenant Commander General Hossein Salami told FNA.

“This is what comes of hegemonic systems dependent on foreign [states] that start a dictatorial movement n their country,” the commander added.

The IRGC deputy commander went on to describe the developments in Egypt as a “manifestation of the [Iran's] Islamic Revolution in the Middle East region and the world of Islam.”

The military official said Egypt had become the “geologic backrest for the Zionist regime [of Israel] as well as a geostrategic spot for backing US policies on Africa.”

Emboldened by the recent popular revolution in Tunisia, which put an end to the 23-year-long reign of the country’s President Zine El Abidin Ben Ali, Egyptians have marched in several cities since Tuesday to bring an end to Mubarak’s three-decade rule.

On Saturday, thousands of anti-government protesters have returned to the streets in Egypt as President Mubarak refused to quit.

UPDATE: The Iranian opposition leader also released a statement in support of the Egyptian protesters.

Iranian opposition figure and 2009 presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi has released a statement in support of the Egyptian protesters and connecting this week’s events in Egypt to the 2009 protests in Iran.

“[Egypt's rulers] do not realise that continuing policies of intimidation will eventually turn against itself and then the coming of ‘the day of wrath’ and days of national wrath will be inevitable. Pharaohs usually hear the voice of the nation when it is too late. Our nation deeply respects the glorious uprising of the brave people of Tunis and that of the people of Egypt, Yemen and other countries in quest for their rights.”

[EPICVIEW]

Metty,
I hope your family is safe!

Do you think the next regime in Egypt will be as friendly to Israel as the cold peace established with Mubarak? I hope a great man like Saddat can be that person

[Progmetty]

Iran has nothing to do with what's happening in Egypt right now, what kind of bull shit is that?
Whoever takes over -I think I said this before- will not do anything new about the foreign policy for a real long time, there's so much to do internally if the system collapses now, rebuilding physically and mentally will take year before looking outwardly, but I doubt Egypt will remain out of the conflict if anything as big as the Gaza assaults happen again, Israel knows that and will handle it smart and unprovocative for a while, well at least the Israelis I know think so.

[EPICVIEW]

Iran has nothing to do with what's happening in Egypt right now, what kind of bull shit is that?
Whoever takes over -I think I said this before- will not do anything new about the foreign policy for a real long time, there's so much to do internally if the system collapses now, rebuilding physically and mentally will take year before looking outwardly, but I doubt Egypt will remain out of the conflict if anything as big as the Gaza assaults happen again, Israel knows that and will handle it smart and unprovocative for a while, well at least the Israelis I know think so.

so what should Israel do if rockets come raining down from Gaza? which I will assume will continue and my guess is be escalated as Hezbollah is now training in Gaza with Hamas?

I think the angle you are not seeing is that , The USA will not fund am Egyptian regime from the Muslim brothererhood, so if that who wins it will be  a policy change for trhe USA

to many we see this as interlinked between Tunisia, Jordan, Lebanon , Egypt

[Progmetty]

so what should Israel do if rockets come raining down from Gaza? which I will assume will continue and my guess is be escalated as Hezbollah is now training in Gaza with Hamas?

Uhhh solve the problem that's making them shoot rockets? uhhhh talk to the elected government? uhhhhh the least important thing in the world for Egyptians right now?

I think the angle you are not seeing is that , The USA will not fund am Egyptian regime from the Muslim brothererhood, so if that who wins it will be  a policy change for trhe USA

I'm sick of repeating this but TMB is not a terrorist organization, it's not extreme and never been violent but they certainly won't care if the USA stop funding Egypt cause they've been asking for it anyway, they wanna work, rebuild and suffer till Egypt can support itself and honestly without the corruption Egypt can very easily support itself, start getting the money from the oilfields, etc.

It sickens me that we're burning in a middle of really hard essential times, people are in the streets defending their families and friends with clubs and knives and there are always some filthy pigs on TV who'll start talking about Muslims and Israel and what makes USA happy, sickens me dizzy I tell ya.

[EPICVIEW]

To me, the real  feasible solution to Gaza is for it go back to Egypt and become part of Egypt again. Israel would be forced to cut off infastructure to it forever under the next conflict anyway. no conflict can be solved with Hamas, so how does Israel overcome that?

as far as the TMB, any look into  them would show extremely unsettling ties and history..Do you think they are moderate? could they have a warm peace with Israel and the USA?

I hope for the best...but history make me worried about that this could be like Iranian revolution, Heck, look at Lebanon! today! i

[El Barto]

Pretty nice analysis, Metty.  I knew they'd been under marshal law for 30 years, but I didn't associate it with Sadat.  Far out. 

Also, I think your analysis about the future is pretty reasonable.  As long as it stays internal, I suspect young blood will do well.  This actually does look a helluva lot like the Iranian revolution, and as long as we don't empower the nutjobs like we did in there (which basically just means keeping our filthy mouths shut), they might just work out something pretty nifty. 

Interestingly, this might be the first time so far that I've seen a distinct advantage with having Obama rather than Dumbass before him.  It seems like people here are annoyed that he hasn't been more outspoken about what's going on, but staying the hell out of Egypt is the right play, and I can only imagine that Bush would be raising all kinds of hell about it.  Tact wasn't exactly his forte.