Guitar players! Tone question.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I play though all 80's rack gear and personally DO kinda like my tones.  I auditioned for a band recently with old band members and they indicated that they'd prefer to hear a "thicker stronger 2000 Mesa style sound" as opposed to a "squeaky 80's distorted guitar" sound (presumably referring to my sound).  I am not at all familiar with this Mesa sound.  If it's what I'm thinking, to my ears, it sounds like shit.  A wall of mid-rangey gain.  I could be entirely off though as, again, I'm not real familiar with Mesas.  Anybody have a way to describe this sound to me or was my description fairly accurate?  I'd like to see if there's a way I can coax a Mesa-ish tone out of my current gear.

[jsem]

2000 style mesa sound = JP sound

edit: modern JP-sound

[jackbauer114]

2000 style mesa sound = JP sound

edit: modern JP-sound

not neccesarilly. this band may have been referring to a recto sound, which is completely different from a mark series sound which JP uses.

[Fuzzboy]

This is a pretty alright video of a Mesa Recto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgGnWufCjso
playing starts at around 1:50, but watch the whole thing so you can see his settings and get a good feel of how the amp's general EQ-ing is.

[SnakeEyes]

Yeah, rack gear sounds terrible.  They don't necessarily mean that awful nu-metal sound that was really grainy and terrible sounding in the 90's (Petrucci even jumped on this bandwagon a little).  They just mean that they want to hear a REAL amp that sounds open and full, unlike rack gear, which sounds thin and like a fly in a bottle.  Rack gear is really ANTI-tone.  I know some will disagree with me, but it's my opinion.  

edit..

Oh, and no, there's no way in hell you're going to get a full, Mesa tone out of "80's rack gear."  It will never, ever happen in a million years.  What you need to do is sell all that crap and buy an awesome REAL tube amp.  Some suggestions that are amazing and that you can find on Craigslist for dirt cheap:

-  Peavey 5150 ($500-800)
-  Peavey 6505 (see above)
-  Mesa Mark III ($500-1,500 depending on options, condition and year; make sure it has the EQ)

A little more money:

-  Mesa Mark IV ($1,000-1,400)

The Holy Grail and a second mortgage:

-  Mesa Mark IIC+ ($1,500-4,000)

[sneakyblueberry]

Cozmo, dude, do not listen to those fools in that band.  80's rack gear is much more respectable than filthy mesa tone.  Just my opinion.  Next time they ask you to get a 'Mesa tone', squeeze out a cleveland steamer in the breakfast food of their choice.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Yeah, rack gear sounds terrible.  They don't necessarily mean that awful nu-metal sound that was really grainy and terrible sounding in the 90's (Petrucci even jumped on this bandwagon a little).  They just mean that they want to hear a REAL amp that sounds open and full, unlike rack gear, which sounds thin and like a fly in a bottle.  Rack gear is really ANTI-tone.  I know some will disagree with me, but it's my opinion.  

edit..

Oh, and no, there's no way in hell you're going to get a full, Mesa tone out of "80's rack gear."  It will never, ever happen in a million years.  What you need to do is sell all that crap and buy an awesome REAL tube amp.  Some suggestions that are amazing and that you can find on Craigslist for dirt cheap:

-  Peavey 5150 ($500-800)
-  Peavey 6505 (see above)
-  Mesa Mark III ($500-1,500 depending on options, condition and year; make sure it has the EQ)

A little more money:

-  Mesa Mark IV ($1,000-1,400)

The Holy Grail and a second mortgage:

-  Mesa Mark IIC+ ($1,500-4,000)

My rack consists of an ADA MP-1 preamp, an Alesis Quadraverb, a BBE Sonic Maximizer, and an ADA 100W power amp.  I DO have a '78 Marshall 50W tube amp, but it has NO channel switching whatsoever, alas it is nearly impossible to get a decent clean tone out of it.  But put a Tubescreamer or a DS-1 in front of it?  Good stuff.

I would love to buy some sort of decent combo amp to use at gigs, instead of having to carry my cab and rack around with me, but they're SO expensive and I really cannot afford much.  Sure, I could sell my rack gear and cab and shit, but the stuff does have some sentimental value for me.  My Marshall stuff has toured half the country with me.  The rack stuff, not as much, but it's the route I went to offer myself a clean tone.  I already had half that rack stuff laying around, so I figured I might as well get something to complement it.

I'd feel kinda bad spending a lot of money when I really don't gig that often.  Though I know I'd have a nice dependable piece of equipment, I'd feel like I couldn't justify such an expenditure, when that money could be better used in other ways.  I really need to think about it.  I told the bass player that my stuff is fully programmable and that I can dial up something that has a lot bassier and midsier range to it if that's what they're after.  Honestly, it's kinda a bullshit excuse to use, if I'm being honest, but that isn't my call to make, of course.  We'll see what comes of it, but at least I have your suggestions to give me a good starting point to look for used gear.  Thanks!

squeeze out a cleveland steamer in the breakfast food of their choice.

I love this idea.

This is a pretty alright video of a Mesa Recto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgGnWufCjso
playing starts at around 1:50, but watch the whole thing so you can see his settings and get a good feel of how the amp's general EQ-ing is.

Nice.  Sounds pretty decent.  Thanks for the link.  Maybe changes my idea of what a Mesa sounds like.  Might like to try one out sometime.  I think in my mind, I may have had the "nu-metal" idea in my head that SnakeEyes referenced in his post.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

The guitar head at the local music shop suggested another option.  Having an FX loop modded into my Marshall.  It has preamp and master volume knobs, so no good clean tones come from it.  If I have an FX loop modded in, I can bypass the preamp, go straight to power tube section, and run pretty much anything into it for a far better tone, I'd think.  He indicated that an FX loop mod probably wouldn't destroy my wallet like buying another amp would.  Not sure what to think.

[SnakeEyes]

Yes, technically, you can access the amp's power amp through the effects loop.  But, anyone who tells you that it's going to make your sound "good" is telling you nonsense.  All you're doing is accessing the power tubes.... it'll certainly give you a warmer tone than using a crappy solid state power amp, but that's really all it's going to do.  Don't forget the expression:  "You can't polish a turd."

What you're talking about is the same type of thing people do when they record a bad guitar track (or any track).  If you record a bad track - i.e. improperly placing micrphones, bad room acoustics, not good mics, bad sound coming out of the amp, etc - then NO amount of post processing, such as EQ, adding reverb/ chorus/ delay/ etc is going to fix that badly recorded track.  If it sounds bad, IT'S BAD.  You need to start with something good, then add to what you have. 

Well, it's the same thing with playing live, too.  If you have a bad sounding preamp, then you have a bad sounding preamp.  No power amp (or power amp section from another amp) is going to make that preamp sound good.  It might make it sound "better," but that's a best case scenario.  I know it seems as if I'm being really critical of you and my apologies because I'm not trying to be!         

It's just that I actually was a huge proponent of rack gear and I started realizing how terrible it sounds compared to real tube amps.  At one point, I had a Digitech Twin Tube preamp, which I used into a solid state amp.  It always sounded thin and like a fly in a bottle (BZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ.... you know the sound).  Then, I bought a Mesa 2:90 power amp and played the Digitech through that.  You know what it did?  Nothing, really.  It basically just made the "BZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZ" fly in a bottle tone louder and deeper. 

I really suggest just saving up for another amp.  Don't waste your cash on this.  Just my opinion. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

No problems!  I appreciate all the input.  The same guitar place has a used Line 6 Spider 212 for $199.  I've heard mixed reviews on the Spider series, but I might like to go try it out and see how it sounds.

https://line6.com/legacy/spider212.html

[SnakeEyes]

No!  Don't do it!  lol  .... the Line 6 stuff is okay for practice purposes, like if you just want to play exercises at home or play along to songs and not waste your tubes and things like that.  But, if you're looking for a real amp, trust me - GET A TUBE AMP. 

Just trust me on this. 

[Big Crouton]

I will also warn you to avoid line6 amps (especially the spider) if you're looking for a decent tone.

I haven't read most of the thread and I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but if you're looking for something to run through the clean channel of your amp, check out the tubeman MKII by hughes and kettner.  https://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=11&prod=Tubeman%20MKII

It's basically a hughes and kettner preamp, so you get killer tone and you just need your actual amp to make it loud and perhaps bring some warmth.  From what I hear, the tube is a bit of a gimmick and isn't really contributing much (something something something starved plate design) but all I know is that it sounds wonderful playing through my fender deville.  It's got the flexibility and control of a 3 channel amp and it's easily controlled by your feet.

Anyways, that's the end of my sales pitch, and no, I don't work for Hughes and Kettner.  I'm just a very satisfied customer who has made the switch from a comparatively lackluster pod XT live tone to this unit.  That said, my pod is still mighty useful for effects and wah.  I'm having a hard time going back to my cry baby after using the wah on the pod.  The pod is far more expressive.

[rumborak]

@ The OP:

Do you have a recording of your current sound? Would be interesting to hear I think.


In my opinion, there's nothing intrinsicly wrong with rack units. After all, why should the plain form factor dictate the sound? You can house in a 2-unit exactly the same stuff as in a combo.
The only "problem" that rack units have is, they're not tuned towards each other like in a combo. Meaning, you have to do that stuff yourself, and a lot of people are not good at it. So, they dismiss rack units as bad-sounding.
I for one love the fact that all my stuff is housed in one convenient box that I can easily lug around.

rumborak

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Hmph.  I don't have a recording of it, unfortunately.  There is a possibility we might be videoing some of Saturday's show, so maybe, but it wouldn't be a fair judgment of the sound.

[PowerSlave]

The line6 spiders are indeed crap but, I have a flextone 3 with two twelves in it and I have no complaints at all about it. I'm not sure if they still make them but, if you get the chance to check one out definately do it. You'll have to tweak the settings a little bit (the factory settings are a bit generic) but you can get just about anything you want out of the amp.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Okay, necrobump here.  I'm going to be checking out a Randall RH100 G2 head tonight.  It's solid state and I'm okay with that.  From the reviews I've read and the Youtube clips I've heard, it sounds like it's a pretty fantastic amp.  A guy in another local band is selling it for $250 (they listed at $500).  Keeping my fingers crossed that it sounds as good as I'm hoping it will, especially the clean channel.