Why do you still believe in a god?

[eric42434224]

LOL.  Im not an atheist.  Im just not so smug as to think I know the true nature of the universe.

EDIT: and of course atoms wont feel pain, but those that "he" created in his image will.

I also assure you that all life forms on Earth will have long passed on before the Heat Death of the Universe.

Who says we are restricting the discussion to life on Earth?

[El Barto]

Personally, I think you're viewing things only in such a way as to support your religious beliefs.  Not a great plan, but not my problem.  Knock yourself out.  However, I would like to clarify a couple of things.  You're saying God existed before the universe?  He'll exist after it's over?  What makes him so special, that he needs no creator but everything else does?  

[Voyage 34]

Yes, there is an infinite regress somewhere, either god or a multiverse or something of that sort. Why is it that infinite regress automatically goes to the god?

No, friend, the infinite regress does NOT go to God. Whatever begins to exist has a cause. God did not begin to exist, therefore, God does not have a cause. The Universe began to exist, therefore the universe has a cause.

An infinite regress of God-creating gods is...ludicrously illogical, just as an infinite regress of Universe-creating Universes is.

I don't mean an infinite regress of creation, I mean an infinite regress of existence. Why can god exist infinitely and a multiverse can't. Gods creating other gods...pfff...I don't even believe in one god much less many.

[ack44]

Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

This actually isn't true in the quantum world. Radioactive decay, for example, happens without a cause. It's determined by a probability, but the classical cause-effect model doesn't apply. Just goes to show how little we know about the nature of things.

[GuineaPig]

Needless to say that there's no reason to think that the universe hasn't always existed in one form or another.

[The Texas Pirate!]

The faith in some thing one cannot see, or prove even exisits, is not a bad thing.
At the same time one does not need to believe in God to be a good person.

The proof that there is no God, has not been brought forth.

Those of us who belive that there is a God, need no proof of the exsitance of God.

I feel that it is an obligation of mine, and all people of the bible, (Christians, Jews, Muslims) to show our faith in God. and lead others to that faith in God.

[Adami]

The faith in some thing one cannot see, or prove even exisits, is not a bad thing.
At the same time one does not need to believe in God to be a good person.

The proof that there is no God, has not been brought forth.

Those of us who belive that there is a God, need no proof of the exsitance of God.

I feel that it is an obligation of mine, and all people of the bible, (Christians, Jews, Muslims) to show our faith in God. and lead others to that faith in God.

It's not the job of Jews actually. We don't recruit.

[sneakyblueberry]

I have no say over what you've seen or how it influenced the way you look at the world, but

and you couldn't convince me otherwise.

this is what I call the end of intelligence.

And this post is borderline offensive.  If you'd like to elaborate on that and come off like less of a condescending prick, that'd be awesome.

[Adami]

When someone says "I believe this, and I refuse to consider any other possibilities in the slightest bit"......that's usually a bad thing.

[sneakyblueberry]

Probably worded it the wrong way, but I'd say that if you read my entire post without taking that part out of context it makes sense.  It's saying "I've seen for myself there is a God through my own experience, and there's no way I or anyone else could erase or change those experiences, therefore it'd be nigh on impossible for me to be convinced otherwise."

Fuck this subforum gets me angry, its like you can't have a religious belief without some other guy jumping all over you and making a mockery of you and your beliefs under the guise of 'a discussion'.  It happens all the time.  Whether that last post was enough to get me banned or not, I'd like to be banned from P/R in any case.  It'd be great if a mod saw this, they could make that happen.  Apologies for my lack of tact.

[ack44]

Probably worded it the wrong way

Wording things the wrong way can get you in deep shit in these parts of the internet

[Adami]

Probably worded it the wrong way, but I'd say that if you read my entire post without taking that part out of context it makes sense.  It's saying "I've seen for myself there is a God through my own experience, and there's no way I or anyone else could erase or change those experiences, therefore it'd be nigh on impossible for me to be convinced otherwise."

Fuck this subforum gets me angry, its like you can't have a religious belief without some other guy jumping all over you and making a mockery of you and your beliefs under the guise of 'a discussion'.  It happens all the time.  Whether that last post was enough to get me banned or not, I'd like to be banned from P/R in any case.  It'd be great if a mod saw this, they could make that happen.  Apologies for my lack of tact.

No one attacked your beliefs dude, Ack was sloppy with his wording, but we were at odds with your stance of not being willing to acknowledge other possibilites.

[Voyage 34]

At the same time one does not need to believe in God to be a good person.

Thank you for admitting that.

It's not the job of Jews actually. We don't recruit.

That's what I like about you guys.

[hefdaddy42]

Holy crap.

[ddtonfire]

if I opened the window of my office on the 23rd floor right now and stepped outside, the law of gravity would make a swift end of me. 

Not necessarily.

You're quite right. The last time I tried to jump off a tall object, all the electrons in my body spontaneously pointed in the direction opposite to the ground.

[Jamesman42]

Holy crap.

This.

The Nonbeliever Brigade has arrived!

[AcidLameLTE]

[Jamesman42]

HALP ME HAIRY


But yeah, I haven't been on in a day, and this thread blew up with so many responses from the nonbelievers (which is cool).

[GuineaPig]

Well, IIRC roughly 2/3 of DTF (at least P/R) are non-believers.  So it seems the posts are just corresponding appropriately to that demographic.

[jsem]

Lol. Well said

[Jamesman42]

Well, IIRC roughly 2/3 of DTF (at least P/R) are non-believers.  So it seems the posts are just corresponding appropriately to that demographic.

Thread title.

[eric42434224]

Well, IIRC roughly 2/3 of DTF (at least P/R) are non-believers.  So it seems the posts are just corresponding appropriately to that demographic.

Thread title.

Quite correct.  This thread is for "believers" only.  All others will be towed.

[Jamesman42]

Eh, I knew others would come in, but it just seems so overwhelming in here that it doesn't seem worth it.

[ehra]

What I'm always left wondering after threads like this is why people care so much about other people's belief in something that, in the grand scheme of things, probably won't affect your day to day interactions with them much.

[Bonham]

if I opened the window of my office on the 23rd floor right now and stepped outside, the law of gravity would make a swift end of me. 

Not necessarily.

You're quite right. The last time I tried to jump off a tall object, all the electrons in my body spontaneously pointed in the direction opposite to the ground.

I doubt that's what he meant...
When I jump off buildings, for example, all of the particles in my body simultaneously tunnel to the other side of the Earth and I end up in New Zealand.
Thank god they speak English...

[Dublagent66]

I believe in God because I've seen him move through people in a way the can't be explained away by science, or anything else for that matter.

Dunno, LSD might explain some of it.

What do you mean you've seen him move through people?

I have the same curiousity, but no one can seem to explain it.  I saw another post here stating they had a "direct experience of god".  That really seems like an extremely profound statement that deserves an explanation.  How do people know what they're seeing or experiencing?  Especially in a world where nothing is as it seems.  Believing is one thing, saying that one has seen or had a direct experience of god is entirely another.

[AcidLameLTE]

If non-believers didn't come into the thread, there wouldn't be much to to discuss.

[Adami]

If non-believers didn't come into the thread, there wouldn't be much to to discuss.

Actually if you follow the bible study thread, it seems the believers disagree on a whole lot, very interesting stuff.

[XJDenton]

Again, with the "Old Man with a beard (and now a robe)" thing, only serves to display your ineptitude of understanding the nature of the Universe and inability to ground your beliefs in sound logic. You much rather prefer grounding them in what you perhaps consider "witty" remarks.

Compared to you, whose arguments have so far relied on the following logical fallacies:

Argument from incredulity

I have an extremely hard time believing that the Universe came into existence from nothing, uncaused, and then decided to adhere to a set of universal laws that also simply decided to come into existence

Lack of imagination on your part doesnt mean that the above scenario can be treated as false.

Argument from ignorance

Oscillatory models of the universe prove to be far less likely as the "Heat Death" models. It is impossible to extend space-time through a singularity to a prior state. Even if the far-fetched oscillating universe theory is true, the question remains: what caused space-time and energy to come into existence to be able to observe such a phenomenon as the oscillating universe theory?

Argument by assertion

...as matter and energy are neither eternal nor infinite (time being the exception with the potential to be infinite).

#

We know enough of the Universe to deem the idea that the universe came into existence from nothing, uncaused and then somehow created a set universal laws it would itself adhere to is highly illogical.

Neither of these have been demonstrated.

[AcidLameLTE]

If non-believers didn't come into the thread, there wouldn't be much to to discuss.

Actually if you follow the bible study thread, it seems the believers disagree on a whole lot, very interesting stuff.

I meant on this particular topic.

[Chino]

It seems to me that the more science progresses, the harder it is to believe any religion. If there is a god out there, odds are that it's so far beyond what anyone on Earth can fathom, we shouldn't even worry about it. That includes praying, going to a church, preaching, etc...

[ehra]

Personally, I never put much stock in prayer either (as in asking for something, not the "hey, God. Just calling to say you rock" kind). You can't say God has some kind of master plan for us all then also say he'll change that plan if you ask really nicely.

[Chino]

Yeah. After I had my fall, so many people said "God must have a plan for you", or "You know someone is watching you". I don't think I have said a legit prayer since I was maybe 8, why would he do me a favor. I was wasted sitting on a balcony five stories up. If anything he should have let me die for the sake of getting the stupid decision gene out of humanity. I hated that people felt like I was some how more privileged than others. Why would God bother saving me when guns are being accidentally dropped in high schools and shooting little kids in the face.

[bosk1]

If there is a god out there, odds are that it's so far beyond what anyone on Earth can fathom, we shouldn't even worry about it. That includes praying, going to a church, preaching, etc...

That's just goofy.

[GuineaPig]

One thing I have an issue with most religions about is scale.  The Earth is not important.  It's not significant.  It's tiny.  It's in the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Milky Way.  That every religion places supreme importance on the Earth, I think, is representative of when they came to be; mostly, when we were blissfully unaware of the cosmos, or our relative (un)importance.