GPS devices installed on sex offenders

[73109]

I just want to say thanks Chris for telling us that. Many people wouldn't and I echo what others say when they said it was a bullshit sentence.

[ehra]

What I'm thinking though is that these gps things for offenders isn't really a bad idea.

Why? Either they're fit to live in society or they're not, something like this seems to be just beating around the bush. If the person were truly going to do something then is this really going to stop them from doing it?

[William Wallace]

How about don't commit sex offender crimes, don't have to worry about it.  They are only tagging people with high risk to re-offend. 

This smacks of the republican retort to the Patriot Act. "If you have nothing hide, you have nothing to worry about!" At issue is the definition of "high risk" offender and the nature of our collective response to sex crimes. I think your response is a bit simplistic. 

[73109]

What I'm thinking though is that these gps things for offenders isn't really a bad idea.

Why? Either they're fit to live in society or they're not, something like this seems to be just beating around the bush. If the person were truly going to do something then is this really going to stop them from doing it?

This. If a sex offender wants to go out there and...sex offend...they'll do it. A wrist band is a minor inconvenience.

[ehra]

If we're doing this to punish the baddest of the baddies who could always be on the prowl for children flesh, then "don't go near any schools or parks" sounds more like a challenge than anything. Like when your girlfriend's dad gives you the "both feet on the ground" rule.

[73109]

what rule?

[ehra]

You never heard of that? Huh. 

[73109]

No and to be honest, I can't even try to infer what is would be!

Both feet on the ground...that could mean no sex as in, your feel are off the ground usually if you are on a bed but there are many sex positions that happen with a chick's feet on the ground...

this thread took a turn.

[El Barto]

   That's bygone of a forgotten era.  As Cole suggested,  I don't think they were anywhere near as creative back then. 

[7StringedBeast]

What I'm thinking though is that these gps things for offenders isn't really a bad idea.

Why? Either they're fit to live in society or they're not, something like this seems to be just beating around the bush. If the person were truly going to do something then is this really going to stop them from doing it?

Go see what I said about probation.  It's for when they are on probation.  Criminals come out of jail and they go on probation, so wear the damn gps during that time.  It's a tool for safety at that point.  While the police monitor the person to see if they are fit.  You guys act like cops will literally be watching these peoples every move.  Who do you think is going to actually sit there all day and watch this stuff?  They will only respond to when someone enters one of these hot zones.  I doubt they can afford to have a guy on staff just to watch screens all day.

The key word though is using it for the probationary period where the offender has to prove they are fit to be back in society.

[ehra]

Go see what I said about probation.  It's for when they are on probation.  Criminals come out of jail and they go on probation, so wear the damn gps during that time.  It's a tool for safety at that point.  While the police monitor the person to see if they are fit.  You guys act like cops will literally be watching these peoples every move.  Who do you think is going to actually sit there all day and watch this stuff?  They will only respond to when someone enters one of these hot zones.  I doubt they can afford to have a guy on staff just to watch screens all day.

The key word though is using it for the probationary period where the offender has to prove they are fit to be back in society.

If they're not going to have people watching the live feed then why even have a live feed in the first place?

[7StringedBeast]

Who says there will be?  It doesn't distinctly say there will be a live feed.  just that it will be able to be called up at all times.

[orcus116]

I just read this part that was posted before:

When paroled sexual criminals approach places they are prohibited from entering, such as parks, schools or public restrooms where potential victims like women and children often appear, the beeping of electronic offender tracking devices will not only inform people about the potential danger, but the sound will also work as a reminder to sex offenders that they should leave the area immediately and control their behavior.

The bold part blows my mind because it automatically assumes that 100% of the time a rehabbing sex offender is strolling by park or public restroom just to look for some new tail. What fucking cretins thought of this shit?

[Adami]

I dunno, as far as I'm concerned anyone who doesn't keep their sexual life vanilla and 100% completely private is no longer a human being.

[orcus116]

I better take that spycam out of your bedroom then huh.

[ehra]

Who says there will be?  It doesn't distinctly say there will be a live feed.  just that it will be able to be called up at all times.

Yes, it said that it can call up their current position and all past positions (the original article also said that they were able to track the person testing it the entire time). Why do they need to know where the person was? Why even need to call up the person's current position if they're not in one of the areas they're not supposed to be in?

[7StringedBeast]

I mean, that's a feature that I wouldn't mind being taken away from the thing.  I think the going off in the hot zone thing is the best part about the idea.  But I mean if the guy is on probation it can keep him in check so he doesn't flea the state or whatever.  And if he does, the police can find him.  I'd be curious to know what offenders get this gps put on them though.  I wonder just how bad their crimes were.

This is a probationary thing, its not like its for the rest of the offender's life.  So he doesn't have all his freedoms back anyways.  Also, I doubt they can hotzone every single area to go off, so I'm guessing its mostly to check if he keeps going to one certain place.  I'm curious as to the reason as well, but I bet its a better reason than "Oh we just want a big brother state"

[El Barto]

Public restrooms?  WTF?

But I mean if the guy is on probation it can keep him in check so he doesn't flea the state or whatever.  And if he does, the police can find him.  I'd be curious to know what offenders get this gps put on them though.  I wonder just how bad their crimes were.

This is a probationary thing, its not like its for the rest of the offender's life.  So he doesn't have all his freedoms back anyways.  Also, I doubt they can hotzone every single area to go off, so I'm guessing its mostly to check if he keeps going to one certain place.  I'm curious as to the reason as well, but I bet its a better reason than "Oh we just want a big brother state"

Actually, the more miserable you make somebody, the more likely they are to skip out and go off the grid.  Considering that Texas registers offenders for life, I'd have to give very serious consideration to booking up.  Fuck, we've got entire cities here that are completely off limits.  That's why you here about them living in their cars.  They make the game so hard you're better off not playing it. 

[Orbert]

1 You're out somewhere and really, really have to pee, but can't find a public restroom
2 You find a place you thought was out of sight, let it whiz, but a cop happens by
3 You get arrested for indecent exposure
4 You are now a "sex offender"
5 You are now barred from using public restrooms
6 See 1 above

[Adami]

1 You're out somewhere and really, really have to pee, but can't find a public restroom
2 You find a place you thought was out of sight, let it whiz, but a cop happens by
3 You get arrested for indecent exposure
4 You are now a "sex offender"
5 You are now barred from using public restrooms
6 See 1 above

Well that's what you get for raping children.

[7StringedBeast]

Public restrooms?  WTF?

But I mean if the guy is on probation it can keep him in check so he doesn't flea the state or whatever.  And if he does, the police can find him.  I'd be curious to know what offenders get this gps put on them though.  I wonder just how bad their crimes were.

This is a probationary thing, its not like its for the rest of the offender's life.  So he doesn't have all his freedoms back anyways.  Also, I doubt they can hotzone every single area to go off, so I'm guessing its mostly to check if he keeps going to one certain place.  I'm curious as to the reason as well, but I bet its a better reason than "Oh we just want a big brother state"

Actually, the more miserable you make somebody, the more likely they are to skip out and go off the grid.  Considering that Texas registers offenders for life, I'd have to give very serious consideration to booking up.  Fuck, we've got entire cities here that are completely off limits.  That's why you here about them living in their cars.  They make the game so hard you're better off not playing it. 

We aren't arguing bogus laws people get convicted on though.  I already agreed and stated that I believe some of the laws are totally bogus and need to be looked at and reconsidered.  AGAIN, the ones getting this bracelet are going to be people who did some really serious offense.  So why do we care if their probationary period is difficult?  And AGAIN I am curious as to what merits getting this tracking device, because the way I'm thinking it probably is something really bad.  I don't understand why people aren't actually reading what I'm writing. 

What's really wrong with these gps things being used for egregious offenders during a probation period?  Why do people have such a problem with that?

[orcus116]

I'm just thinking about the extremes here myself but say this little program is deemed a success by whoever. Then you'll have some over zealous parent group insist that every and all sex offender should have these bracelets because, in their minds, sex offender = exists to abduct and fuck their children. And what's to stop the court from saying "you know what, you're finished probation and restrained yourself but we're going to have to keep this bracelet on you at all times from now on just to be sure".

[El Barto]

Public restrooms?  WTF?

But I mean if the guy is on probation it can keep him in check so he doesn't flea the state or whatever.  And if he does, the police can find him.  I'd be curious to know what offenders get this gps put on them though.  I wonder just how bad their crimes were.

This is a probationary thing, its not like its for the rest of the offender's life.  So he doesn't have all his freedoms back anyways.  Also, I doubt they can hotzone every single area to go off, so I'm guessing its mostly to check if he keeps going to one certain place.  I'm curious as to the reason as well, but I bet its a better reason than "Oh we just want a big brother state"

Actually, the more miserable you make somebody, the more likely they are to skip out and go off the grid.  Considering that Texas registers offenders for life, I'd have to give very serious consideration to booking up.  Fuck, we've got entire cities here that are completely off limits.  That's why you here about them living in their cars.  They make the game so hard you're better off not playing it. 

We aren't arguing bogus laws people get convicted on though.  I already agreed and stated that I believe some of the laws are totally bogus and need to be looked at and reconsidered.  AGAIN, the ones getting this bracelet are going to be people who did some really serious offense.  So why do we care if their probationary period is difficult?  And AGAIN I am curious as to what merits getting this tracking device, because the way I'm thinking it probably is something really bad.  I don't understand why people aren't actually reading what I'm writing. 

What's really wrong with these gps things being used for egregious offenders during a probation period?  Why do people have such a problem with that?

We care because if it's too difficult they won't do it.  Plenty of RSO's just up and disappear.  Yeah, they might get caught down the road--might not.  But how many naughty things can they do in the mean time if they're not being supervised?  And if getting caught for anything already means getting reunited with Bubba, then why not get some young tail while you're still out?  The prudent course of action is to keep an eye on them, but let them integrate back into normal society.  Hounding them mercilessly is counterproductive. Work smarter, not harder.

[7StringedBeast]

But how are the addition of a gps not working smarter?  It is the definition of working smarter.  Also why is everything a slippery slope situation?  Everyone is so willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater based on what if scenarios.  A sex offender can do harm again once on the street sure, but at least the gps gives the police a hand in watching him.  I just don't think it does any harm and if the cops think it will help, why not implement it?  I'm sure they have better things to do than to keep eyes on sex offenders every second of the day, so having a gps that will go off if a sex offender enters a hot zone seems like a good tool.

Now I would be interested in knowing what would be considered hot zones, and whether it changes case to case depending on the person and their crime.  And if the sex offender really wants to quit their ways and prove they are ready to come back to society, I feel like they would not object to this gps for their probation time because its another step showing that they are willing to abide by the law and do what it takes to gain trust back.

I don't know, I really don't see many negatives to this.  I really don't see how it can hurt.  One thing is for sure, I feel like I wish people here at DTF were coming up with gov policies like this, because I feel like we actually get down into an issue and come out with great compromises and versions of ideas that could work in the real world.  To bad our government is kind of inept at common sense type things.

[orcus116]

The problem is that the trust is automatically against the RSO to begin with. Say they seriously want to go out for an evening stroll and just happen upon a park. They don't go in it, they just go by but because they were in so many feet of it their little beeper goes off. If the police come by to pick them up are they going to believe that they were just going out for a walk? I can't say but I could definitely see a bit of a helpless situation on the part of the RSO.

[icysk8r]

And the guy dl kiddie porn is doing harm by giving that stuff a market and prolonging it. 

No he isn't.  He isn't paying for it.

In order to be considered a sex offender you should first have to physically touch someone else...

What about photographing, or video taping young girls and selling it on the internet?

You don't sell child porn.  The people who do are a vast minority.

Anyways, RSO laws are bullshit and show absolutely no improvement any way you look at them.  There is statistics to back this up.  There has been no decline in re-offense and this GPS shit isn't going to change it.  Most molestation cases take place in a trusted home where the offender lives or where a trusted 3rd party lives.

[7StringedBeast]

The problem is that the trust is automatically against the RSO to begin with. Say they seriously want to go out for an evening stroll and just happen upon a park. They don't go in it, they just go by but because they were in so many feet of it their little beeper goes off. If the police come by to pick them up are they going to believe that they were just going out for a walk? I can't say but I could definitely see a bit of a helpless situation on the part of the RSO.

But who says if he accidentally strays in he's fucked.  I don't remember reading that he has no chance to back out.  And if you are that egregious of an offender to get one of these things, well shit man expect to go through some shit, cause you fucked up grand.

And Icy, yeah I already know your whole stance on kiddie porn and I don't even want to get into that again.

[El Barto]

You're far to trusting of government.  You already pointed out that it's inept in matters of common sense.  Government never cedes back power it's been given, and it always expands upon it.  Since there are beau-coup doleros to be made here, the program will be expanded quickly.  (Home monitoring of the sort that Martha Stewert and Lindsey Lohan are attached to run $12 a day!)  Furthermore, people will fall between the cracks on both sides.  Some bad people will act up and not get caught, and the public urinator will be busted for riding a bus that goes past a park.  If the system isn't perfect, and this one doesn't sound like it, then it's usually better to err on the safe side.  One of those common sense things that the government doesn't get.

Also, let's keep in mind that lawmakers have no interest in doing things right.  They have in an interest in appearances. Something that looks brilliant but doesn't work worth a damn will always win out over something that works very slowly and subtlety.  It's the golden dancer.

And lastly, as Icy pointed out after his pro-kiddie porn spiel, the stranger-danger that this program is geared towards is an insignificant part of the problem.  The guys who dress up as clowns and hand out candy in the park are few and far between.  They're just good fodder to scare the shit out of parents to get votes.  This does nothing reduce the overwhelming majority of sexual abuse cases.  It's merely an obvious attempt at grabbing the low-lying fruit-cakes.

[7StringedBeast]

I see what you are saying Barto.  Maybe you are right about trusting the gov and how they tend to hold or expand power.  I'm not for that, yet I am for tracking these guys.  But I do see the flaws in it and the problems that could occur.  I just wish there was something that could be done about it.  I also tend not to think everything is some big conspiracy.  I think officials tend to want the right thing, they just never end up going about it the right way.  Also, lobbyists suck.

[El Barto]

I wouldn't necessarily consider it a big conspiracy either.  It's just a fundamental fact that in democracy, appearance is far more important than results.  As I said in another thread, the guy who comes out and says "I promise to rid my community of dangerous child sex predators" will wallop the guy who says "what we need is focused deliberation to come to a working solution" in the next general election, every single time.   No conspiracy.  Just good ole human nature.

As for a better solution, a big step towards making a better plan would be to remove the profit margin from the equation.  Combining greed with criminal justice is a horrible merger.  It fosters a system where punishing people is more important than not punishing them.  If running prisons, administering parole/probation, tracking Chester and Mohammad, etc. cost the system money (or broke even, for that matter), then it would become a last resort rather than a primary interest.  Fuck, Shawshank Redemption should have taught everybody that much. 

[7StringedBeast]

Yeah I agree with everything you have said there.

[The Texas Pirate!]

It is for the serious offenders and only till his or her sentence is up. Not for the rest of their life. But on the other hand where does it stop, next? who will they want to put the tracker on next? drug addicts? drunk drivers? political activists? Imigrant smuglers? Weaopons violaters? There must be a way to stop the rabid attack on the basic unalienable rights.

IF YOU GIVE UP A FREEDOM FOR SAFETY YOU DESERVE NEITHER!