Westboro Baptist Church

[El Barto]

Listening to the arguments, which is just fascinating as hell.  The Snyder's attorney just suggested that if their protest had said "get out of Iraq," then it would have been constitutionally protected.  Their objection is to the specific message [allegedly] directed at their son.  Interesting stance, which I obviously disagree with.

[icysk8r]

Once again, I agree with everything El Barto has said

[Voyage 34]

I'm sure most of you have seen this, but just in case, this is probably the funniest thing Michael Moore has ever done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

[icysk8r]

I'm sure most of you have seen this, but just in case, this is probably the funniest thing Michael Moore has ever done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

Fucking awesome!

[El Barto]

8-1 in favor of the WBC.  I know this will bug most of you, but it's nice to know that free speech will still be protected in this country.  I had serious doubts about that.

"Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and -- as it did here -- inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Basically, the Supreme Court rules that, yes, the Constitution protects your right to be an asshole.

[7thHanyou]

8-1 in favor of the WBC.  I know this will bug most of you, but it's nice to know that free speech will still be protected in this country.  I had serious doubts about that.

"Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and -- as it did here -- inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority

This is a tremendous victory for our country's founding principles--something you rarely see from the Supreme Court.

[William Wallace]

Thanks for posting the audio, El Barto.

[ReaPsTA]

I guess the question is, where does your right to free speech conflict with a person's right to be able to tune you out.  No matter what's on TV, you can change the channel and it's gone.  The right to free speech isn't the right to be an asshole.  It's the right to free speech.  So why does that right also include the ability to stand outside funerals and protest and harass people?

[7thHanyou]

I guess the question is, where does your right to free speech conflict with a person's right to be able to tune you out.  No matter what's on TV, you can change the channel and it's gone.  The right to free speech isn't the right to be an asshole.  It's the right to free speech.  So why does that right also include the ability to stand outside funerals and protest and harass people?

Because they're standing on public property.

And yes, the right to free speech is absolutely the right to be an asshole.  That's what we've been fighting for all this time.  Human beings have a tendency to see people who disagree with them as assholes.

[Zook]

What exactly are they protesting? There's a huge difference between signs that say ''down with cheese'' and ''thank god for terrorists''.

[Adami]

Human beings have a tendency to see people who disagree with them as assholes.

I honestly can't tell, are you implying that you don't disagree with the WBC?

[7thHanyou]

Human beings have a tendency to see people who disagree with them as assholes.

I honestly can't tell, are you implying that you don't disagree with the WBC?

No. Like most Americans, I find the WBC's opinions and methods appalling and morally reprehensible.

I'm just saying that making exceptions for "assholes" is a horrible idea, since it would lead to any unpopular speech being regulated.

[Adami]

Human beings have a tendency to see people who disagree with them as assholes.

I honestly can't tell, are you implying that you don't disagree with the WBC?

No. Like most Americans, I find the WBC's opinions and methods appalling and morally reprehensible.

I'm just saying that making exceptions for "assholes" is a horrible idea, since it would lead to any unpopular speech being regulated.

Oh ok.

[Perpetual Change]

Well, the good news is Fred Phelps is probably going to die of old age soon. And the rest of his clan, in time, will eventually die out.

[Orbert]

Their numbers are increasing, though.  Look what one guy has already managed to do in a few generations.  He's got his whole family and extended family brainwashed into his particular brand of psycho-hate.

[Sigz]

Yeah, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it all disintegrate once he's not there to be the leader.

[Orbert]

One would hope.

[El Barto]

I've kind of thought the same thing.  Shirley seems to be the legal brains, but I'm not sure she's capable of being the leader.  Presumably, Fred has that charismatic aspect that's required.  She seems pretty stiff.  There is the possibility that one of the younger ones has that cult-leader quality, though.  The church could conceivably expand in a big way with the right grandson at the helm.  Let's just hope he's of the poisoned applesauce school of thought. 

[William Wallace]

Yeah, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it all disintegrate once he's not there to be the leader.

Take this with a grain of salt, but they've said they will purposefully continue when old man Phelps kicks the bucket. It was in the documentary Fall from Grace, and El barto said essentially the same thing.

[bosk1]

El Barto is a member of the WBC?!  Whoa! 

[rumborak]

I think Phelps et al. are sort of the last stance really. If there's any impression I've gotten over the years it's that the younger generation is much more tolerant in these things. And it always takes a generation or two to change people's minds. Old fucks are old fucks, that's never gonna change. Europe made exactly the same transition a few decades ago. Once people realize that they know gays and they're upstanding and very nice people, they realize that it's cheap and dumb to paint all gays in some light that's convenient for the haters to hate them.

rumborak

[Zook]

I remember watching a talk show years ago which had members of the WBC (Blonde woman and her daughters) and the kids were just as hateful as she was.

[hefdaddy42]

the right to free speech is absolutely the right to be an asshole.  That's what we've been fighting for all this time. 

We should all be proud of our scope and ambition.

[orcus116]

Heh. I've always found the protection of free speech to be the protection to say something worthwhile, not the drivel that comes out of the WBC.

[Genowyn]

Heh. I've always found the protection of free speech to be the protection to say something worthwhile, not the drivel that comes out of the WBC.

Well, I assume the point is that it's not the decision of the law to decide what speech is or is not worthwhile.

[7thHanyou]

the right to free speech is absolutely the right to be an asshole.  That's what we've been fighting for all this time.

We should all be proud of our scope and ambition.

We should. It was assholes that founded the country I live in in the first place, and I'm damn proud of it.

[Dr. DTVT]

Heh. I've always found the protection of free speech to be the protection to say something worthwhile, not the drivel that comes out of the WBC.

Free speech is limited; it would be nice if hate speech could be argued along the "Yelling 'FIRE!' in a crowded theater" test.

[El Barto]

Heh. I've always found the protection of free speech to be the protection to say something worthwhile, not the drivel that comes out of the WBC.

Free speech is limited; it would be nice if hate speech could be argued along the "Yelling 'FIRE!' in a crowded theater" test.

No it wouldn't.  There's an important aspect of free speech that you guys seem to be neglecting.  Just like we don't prohibit people from expressing ideas, we also try not to frighten people away from expressing them.  Speech is only free when you don't fear the legal repercussions of it.  When you start adding more and more restrictions onto it, then people start to worry more about their expression.  You shouldn't have to consult a lawyer every time you want to open your mouth.