The Official Football (Soccer) Thread (v. It's starting again!)

[Kwyjibo]

Yeah, but how do you lose when the other team doesn't want to win and without making it too obvious?

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, but how do you lose when the other team doesn't want to win and without making it too obvious?

Good question. You can play for a draw (See France and Denmark) and chalk it up to "uh well, we didn't score", but it would be a farce if a defender "accidentally" loses a striker 3/4 of the field and the attacker "accidentally" shoots the ball straight to the goalkeeper arms, over and over 

[Elite]

Yes, I understand that, but losing purposefully would be ridiculous and unsportsmanlike.

That said, both Argentina and Brazil aren't exactly in the greatest shape, Mexico lost their last match rather embarrasingly and the other side of the bracket has both Sweden and Croatia that can be surprising opponents, so I'm not entirely sure that avoiding the so-called big-guns is the smartest way to go.

[Nekov]

Well, Belgium just got 2 yellow cards which puts them in second place. So there you go 

[Elite]

This match is, unsurprisingly, very boring.

[rumborak]

Was initially going to watch it with the result that I would have to work later today, but I'm not gonna do that if both teams play to lose.

[ariich]

Was initially going to watch it with the result that I would have to work later today, but I'm not gonna do that if both teams play to lose.

They're not playing to lose, they're definitely playing to win. They're just not trying very hard.

And in fairness, that completely makes sense. Why exhaust themselves fighting to win a game where there's no benefit to doing so. It's being played a bit like a friendly. Neither side is fielding it's strongest 11.

It's a really weird game to be honest.

[Elite]

That was the worst game of the World Cup so far and honestly, England should be ashamed.

[ariich]

It was pretty boring and neither side really tried.

I mean, on one hand it was sensible to not exhaust the players. Also by coming 2nd in the group we potentially have an easier run.

On the other hand, there's no momentum now.

[Elite]

Come on, there were several instances where England had real chances of scoring a goal and they didn't even try. Wellbeck in the last 10 minutes being a prime example. I really wanted to root for England, to actually have some suspense and see them playing at their best and I was hoping this would be the match (because by all means, both Panama and Tunisia were pretty lousy opponents), but instead we got half-arsed 'let's-play-to-lose' football. And what about all the people that tuned in to this match, or even worse, bought tickets for this match specificially, because this would surely be the spectacle of the group? They got cheated on by their own teams! Based on sportsmanship, both Belgium and England both deserve to be beaten by Japan and Colombia respectively in the next round. I doubt that the players of the teams can actually live with what they just showed.

[ariich]

Come on, there were several instances where England had real chances of scoring a goal and they didn't even try.

Indeed:

It was pretty boring and neither side really tried.

Not sure if you were disagreeing with me or just generally annoyed.

[Elite]

Generally annoyed, mostly. And from a fair-play perspective it's bad that both teams knew what winning or losing would mean for the remainder of the tournament. It made for the lousiest game of the tournament so far, while it should have been an exciting match.

[MirrorMask]

So, this is how the road to the final starts.



Place your bets!

[rumborak]

Wait, where's Germ... 

[Evermind]

Pretty sure Russia is going to lose, but I hope they'll win to face Croatia in the next round just so I can do silly jokes towards Tomislav on Facebook.

All games should be pretty good though. I'm excited for this.

[Elite]

Japan & Mexico, the rest is South America vs. Europe

[lonestar]

Still backing my vatos from down south, arriba!!!

[faizoff]

My picks


Portugal
France

BrazilBelgium

SpainCroatia

SwedenColombia

[Kwyjibo]

France vs. Argentina has all the ingredients for a great spectacle ...


... so it will probably be a snooze fest which ends in a penalty shootout 

[MirrorMask]

I assume:

Portugal vs Argentina (more wishful thinking just to see Ronaldo vs Messi)
Brazil vs Belgium (hoping for Mexico to get through)

=============

Spain vs Croatia (go Russia and go Denmark)
Sweden vs England

[faizoff]

Didn't know the last 10 mins of the Japan-Poland game ended with a performance reminiscent of the Austria-W.Germany debacle in the 1982 world cup.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44649668

At first I was confused why Japan would even attempt that strategy of doing nothing the last 10 mins, turns out it was a gamble on Japan's part that Senegal would not score in order for them to advance in the next stage.

[Nekov]

Yeah, what Japan did was super lame. I don't know if there is a way you can fix that kind of behavior though. What I would like to see is for the tournament not to be pre-determined as it is right now.
I would have the round of 16 being a lottery like they do in the champions league, a team that went first with one that went second and from that point on have it be fixed. However, given how complicated the logistics in a world cup are that may be very hard to pull off. But it would prevent from having extremely boring games like Denmark-France or England-Belgium.

[MirrorMask]

That's a double chance for rigging the draw... Platini admitted in 1998 that they orchestrated the France vs Brazil final.

Imagine that Spain was hosting this World Cup, and that the second draw for the round of 16 would have produced this exact result - wouldn't it be extremely suspicious that the host nation is the only strong contender for victory in their own half?

But I don't think it would be such a bad idea on principle to have a draw for  the knockout stage. What's the actual reason for things being pre-determined? "it's always been this way"? logistics based on where the games are being held? (even though I can't see how things could be different, each team has their headquarters anyway and you don't know anyway until you qualify for the knockout stage where you're gonna play)

Or maybe it's just the charm of knowing where the road will lead rather than having a draw each time...

[Kwyjibo]

Japan didn't want to go out in the group stage, that's why they played it lame, they didn't want to risk another goal by Poland. That had nothing to do with who they will face in the next round.

But in the Belgium - England match, neither team wanted to really win that game in order to avoid Brazil in the next round. Only the belgium goal scorer didn't get the memo.

Drawing the opponents after the group stage is over might have its charm. But then there's nothing to gain in winning your group.

That's a double chance for rigging the draw...

I'm sure measures will be taken to not let any manipulation happen, after all this is the FIFA,a highly regarded organization.  

[Nekov]

That's a double chance for rigging the draw... Platini admitted in 1998 that they orchestrated the France vs Brazil final.

Well, nothing can be done about that. As long as you have a draw there will always be suspicion.

But I don't think it would be such a bad idea on principle to have a draw for  the knockout stage. What's the actual reason for things being pre-determined? "it's always been this way"? logistics based on where the games are being held? (even though I can't see how things could be different, each team has their headquarters anyway and you don't know anyway until you qualify for the knockout stage where you're gonna play)

I think the problem is the timing. First round finished yesterday, and the next round starts tomorrow. If you had a draw today, teams would have little time to plan flights and hotels or whatever else they needed. Same thing would happen with fans and that would be worse. The way it is right now you have at least a couple of days to find hotels and how to get there.

Drawing the opponents after the group stage is over might have its charm. But then there's nothing to gain in winning your group.

There is. You would have 2 groups, teams that won the group vs teams that came in second, the same way you have in the champions league.

[MirrorMask]

But then there's nothing to gain in winning your group.

Well, you still play against a second qualified team, and supposedly weaker.

Anyway, if Germany would have done Germany and Argentina would have done Argentina, we'd have a fairly even knockout stage. They screwed up (Germany beyond repair) and now Spain has the road  to the final clear (thanks to a DOUBLE occourence in TWO matches in the final moments of the match, I'll never get over this if Spain wins again).

[Destiny Of Chaos]

How is this going to work when they expand from 32 to 48 teams. More groups or bigger groups? Will the Knockout tournament still be 16 teams?

[Train of Naught]

How is this going to work when they expand from 32 to 48 teams. More groups or bigger groups? Will the Knockout tournament still be 16 teams?

Get this (at least I heard this from someone, may not be accurate): they are going to do 3 team groups (top 2 advance), which is completely fucked up if you think about it. It highly increases the odds of teams tactically playing for a tie to eliminate the third team and both get through safely

[Kwyjibo]

Yes, that's how I heard it too, and you got 32 teams advancing from group stage so there's one more knockout round.

If you asked me, this is stupid.

[MirrorMask]

It also reduces the possibility to repair your own mistakes. Argentina could, Germany couldn't but if they had won against South Korea they would have went through. You make one mistake in a single match and you're home before you know it.

Train and Kwyjibo are right, I've read that they're considering penalty shootouts for matches that end with a draw, to always have a winner.

I hope the experimentation fails and that we go back to the 32 teams format in 2-3 editions. This also limits the possibility of host nations, how many there are out there who can keep that many teams? the triple bill of Usa / Mexico / Canada is silly, as much as it's a chance for continental unity, but USA is hosting anyway 60 matches out of 80 so it's not a trinity but "We play in the USA, and the games that can't be held for physical limits will be played in our neighbours stadium".

What's next? Spain, Portugal and France co-hosting? all the nordic nations of Europe hosting together? Chile, Argentina and Uruguay south-south American bid?

[Kwyjibo]

Well there's the european championship in 2020 that is played in no less than 12 different european countries.

[MirrorMask]

Well there's the european championship in 2020 that is played in no less than 12 different european countries.

Well, that's an exception, a one-off to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the tournament, and also to cut the costs of organizing and hosting a whole tournament for a single country. It never happened before and won't happen again unless for a 100th anniversary or something. But with so many big tournaments, countries joining to co-host will become more and more likely, I like instead the feel of "we all go to Nation X and tour it all on the road to victory".

[Elite]

But then you have the problem of countries simply being too small (with not enough stadiums) to actually host such a tournament.

[Kwyjibo]

I know it's a one off and while I think the idea behind it isn't that bad, it's still a mess if a tournament is held from Spain to Scandinavia to almost Asia (Azerbaijan). Extreme travel distances, different time zones, different climates etc.

This co-hosting is okay if the countries are near to each other and the distances aren't too far. From Canada to Mexico is bullshit, as was South Korea/Japan.

What's next? Australia/Austria? North America/North Korea? South America/South Africa?

[Elite]

South Korea/Japan was bullshit.

What's next? Australia/Austria? North America/North Korea? South America/South Africa?

You make it sound like South Korea & Japan are located on opposing ends of a continent, while they're in fact at the furthest point 400-500 kilometers apart. That's the same distance a team would need to travel within France for instance.