Censoring Huck Finn

[ack44]

This mini "outrage" in this thread is hilarious. Why aren't you guys mad about laws forcing people to be clothed in public places? It's essentially censorship of nudity.

I'd like to think that a reasonable person would differentiate between "censoring nudity" in public places and censorship of art and history.

okay

[7StringedBeast]

Yeah because school's have problems with letting kids read the book, which is ridiculous.  So this new version is supposed to be updated for the times and more accessible for kids to read because it doesn't have racist language in it.  It's all about political correctness.  People just don't think its right to use that language, and they just have no concept of context.

[ack44]

For the record I'm not for having the censored version in schools. I'm just pointing out the hypocracies in attitude. And the intent of this version seems to be misrepresented. A little reading up on the issue shows that Huck Finn itself is the fourth most censored book (as in eliminated from the curriculum) in schools, and the point of this version is to get the book uncensored. But oh yea, its only censorship when the media is telling us it is.

[7StringedBeast]

Getting it uncensored by censoring it?  I guess we should just take out all the brutality and death of all holocausts books so we don't upset anyone.  The word Nazi should no longer be used because its so bad.  It's a ridiculous idea that this is the way we are going to get kids to read the book in schools.  Dumb. 

People need to get over it.  Let kids read the book the way it was written.  What is with people and trying to save everyone from themselves?

[XJDenton]

Moving away from the censorship arguments, my issue with having the altered book in a school curriculum is that changing the language can dilute the meaning and power of the original text, especially when the author is on record saying how carefully he chose each word he wrote, so all those "n-words" are in the text for a reason, in this case to enhance the sense of hypocrisy and irony. Basically I think you make it a less effective teaching tool by using this version (assuming of course there is no explanation of the changes within the text itself, which is probably a given considering the people that are the reason this book exists in the first place).

[ack44]

Getting it uncensored by censoring it?  I guess we should just take out all the brutality and death of all holocausts books so we don't upset anyone.  The word Nazi should no longer be used because its so bad.  It's a ridiculous idea that this is the way we are going to get kids to read the book in schools.  Dumb. 

People need to get over it.  Let kids read the book the way it was written.  What is with people and trying to save everyone from themselves?

Your misrepresentation of the edited version's intent is probably more suitable for the word "censorship" than a version of Huck Finn which most definitely mentions in that book (and probably some indication on the cover) that "nigger" is replaced with "slave" lol.

[7StringedBeast]

nigger and slave are not the same word.  Sorry.  It should not be altered.  It was written the way it was written on purpose.  Just like XJ said.  It's the context it was written in that makes it important to read it the way it was written.  The word is in that book to convey irony.  Changing that word, changes the meaning of the intended message of the author.  Changing that word is also a form of censorship.  What is wrong with my reasoning?  I really don't understand what the problem is here.

[El Barto]

Ack's is actually an interesting observation.  That by censoring the book, it will be required reading by more students.  The problem is that by censoring it, it's not longer worth reading at all.  The intention of the author is clearly a criticism of racism.  Without that criticism, why bother reading it?  Furthermore, any teacher who can't recognize the context of Nigger Jim shouldn't have a job teaching English in the first place.  

[Adami]

It's art. Should any art be censored?

No.

[XJDenton]

Ack's is actually an interesting observation.  That by censoring the book, it will be required reading by more students.  The problem is that by censoring it, it's not longer worth reading at all.  The intention of the author is clearly a criticism of racism.  Without that criticism, why bother reading it?  Furthermore, any teacher who can't recognize the context of Nigger Jim shouldn't have a job teaching English in the first place. 

It dilutes it, but it doesn't remove its merit entirely.

[ack44]

This whole thing is more a matter of linguistic and cultural evolution than censorship, and there's much more that can dilute the meaning of a text than replaced words. I, for one, am still confused about the use of "nigger" and whether it's supposed to be ironic (or expression of his anti-racist ideals?) or just a reflection of the language of the time, because this thread has claims for both.

[El Barto]

Ack's is actually an interesting observation.  That by censoring the book, it will be required reading by more students.  The problem is that by censoring it, it's not longer worth reading at all.  The intention of the author is clearly a criticism of racism.  Without that criticism, why bother reading it?  Furthermore, any teacher who can't recognize the context of Nigger Jim shouldn't have a job teaching English in the first place. 

It dilutes it, but it doesn't remove its merit entirely.

I was thinking about this driving back from lunch, and what occurred to me is that most people have trouble seeing the message through the narrative.  The people pushing for this revision likely just see it as a book about a racist kid on a raft in the racist south.  While renaming him Slave Jim won't entirely remove the commentary, it will obscure much further when people are already to simpleminded to see it.  They might as well just show them the latest Hollywood road movie.   I would say that the teachers should be teaching them the actual context, but teachers in this country are usually baby sitters who rarely understand what they're teaching any more than the students do. 

[ack44]

The people pushing for this revision likely just see it as a book about a racist kid on a raft in the racist south. 

Actually from what I can gather the guy leading the initiative is a Mark Twain scholar who just wants the books back in schools.

As for the people trying to ban it from schools, yes they are probably like what you described. Or, an example from wiki,

In 2007, Ibrahim Mohamed, a North Richland Hills, Texas, student, requested the word “nigger” be shortened to “the N-word”. According to him, the teacher responded by asking him, “Does it offend you? It hurts, doesn’t it?” The exercise that was being done was to put the word into proper context for students, though officials apologized for the teacher’s blunt actions and tone. Despite the apology, Mohamed’s mother wanted the book banned. A group called “The Coalition to Stop the N-Word” requested the school board send a written apology to the family, give sensitivity training to all the teachers, and ban the book based on the feelings of the Mohamed family. In response, the school board said it would try to find better ways in which to present the novel and its controversial content to students.

The n-word is just a big fucking tragedy of American culture.

[Chino]

In a country where the word nigger is dropped in every rap song (multiple times), makes this just seem silly.

[William Wallace]

The people pushing for this revision likely just see it as a book about a racist kid on a raft in the racist south.

Actually from what I can gather the guy leading the initiative is a Mark Twain scholar who just wants the books back in schools.

As for the people trying to ban it from schools, yes they are probably like what you described. Or, an example from wiki,

In 2007, Ibrahim Mohamed, a North Richland Hills, Texas, student, requested the word “nigger” be shortened to “the N-word”. According to him, the teacher responded by asking him, “Does it offend you? It hurts, doesn’t it?” The exercise that was being done was to put the word into proper context for students, though officials apologized for the teacher’s blunt actions and tone. Despite the apology, Mohamed’s mother wanted the book banned. A group called “The Coalition to Stop the N-Word” requested the school board send a written apology to the family, give sensitivity training to all the teachers, and ban the book based on the feelings of the Mohamed family. In response, the school board said it would try to find better ways in which to present the novel and its controversial content to students.

Fucking pathetic, catering to people who are willing to ban books. They may indeed get a censored edition of the book back into schools, but they're compromising the integrity of the story and continuing the precedent of censoring literature. You want people to read Mark Twain? Demolish the case for censorship and stir up as much controversy as possible. Nothing attracts more attention.

On another note, people have been defending the book by pointing to Twain's critique of racism. That's certainly valid, but even if he was racist the book shouldn't be censored. People need to realize that proponents of bad ideas can teach us things, perhaps unintentionally. Assuming that the book isn't purposefully critical of racism, it still paints a vivid picture of the antebellum south and - from a contemporary perspective - why it sucked so badly. Take the good, leave the bad and quite being so fucking sensitive.

[Genowyn]

Fucking pathetic, catering to people who are willing to ban books. They may indeed get a censored edition of the book back into schools, but they're compromising the integrity of the story and continuing the precedent of censoring literature. You want people to read Mark Twain? Demolish the case for censorship and stir up as much controversy as possible. Nothing attracts more attention.

On another note, people have been defending the book by pointing to Twain's critique of racism. That's certainly valid, but even if he was racist the book shouldn't be censored. People need to realize that proponents of bad ideas can teach us things, perhaps unintentionally. Assuming that the book isn't purposefully critical of racism, it still paints a vivid picture of the antebellum south and - from a contemporary perspective - why it sucked so badly. Take the good, leave the bad and quite being so fucking sensitive.

Slightly off topic, but I definitely agree with this. The major bookstore chain in Chapters has banned Mein Kampf, because apparently they can't grasp this concept. I'd really like to read that book just to get a better idea of the kind of person Hitler was, but because of that banning and general stigma about it, I think I'd have a hard time doing so.


On-topic: We read Huck Finn back in grade 8 and I don't remember anyone being offended by the language. In fact, the one black dude in the class was making a bunch of jokes about it. He was sort of a goof, so maybe he was just joking around to hide the fact that he was offended, but I don't remember him being the kind of guy that would do that.

[Chino]

On another note, people have been defending the book by pointing to Twain's critique of racism. That's certainly valid, but even if he was racist the book shouldn't be censored. People need to realize that proponents of bad ideas can teach us things, perhaps unintentionally.

He who refuses to acknowledge history is destined to repeat it.

[Orbert]

"People need to realize that proponents of bad ideas can teach us things, perhaps unintentionally."

As soon as I read that, the first thing I thought of was Mein Kampf.  My junior high American Lit teacher (same one who gave us Huck Finn, now that I think about it) had a copy of Mein Kampf and some of the other students gave him some shit about it.  He explained to their tiny little minds that he wasn't reading it to learn how to become the next Hitler, but to better understand the guy's ideas, which were not all bad.  Nobody, good or evil, rises to that level of power without smarts and skills.

This was the same teacher who talked about Kansas and Jethro Tull (this was in the 70's) and he played Funkadelic's "Maggot Brain" for us one day in class.  Brilliant, open-minded guy and great teacher.

[ack44]

Fucking pathetic, catering to people who are willing to ban books.

I don't how you could come to that conclusion, unless you quit reading after the first sentence.

Take the good, leave the bad

Exactly, we need to pick and choose which...

... wait...

[Adami]

So I saw an article I assume was about this with the title "Much ado about the n-thing"

I thought it was clever title, so I wanted to see if I could come up with a better title for a story dealing with this, I came up with "Being Niggardly with Mark Twain"

[William Wallace]

Fucking pathetic, catering to people who are willing to ban books.

I don't how you could come to that conclusion...

Very easily. A small group of people is raising hell over the language in the book, and instead of telling them to fuck off, this professor is compromising with them.

[ack44]

Fucking pathetic, catering to people who are willing to ban books.

I don't how you could come to that conclusion...

Very easily. A small group of people is raising hell over the language in the book, and instead of telling them to fuck off, this professor is compromising with them.

Yea, but they didn't ban the book in that case. They just said they'll teach the material with more historical context so that there's less misunderstanding, which is better than telling the complainers to fuck off imo.

The point is that, that's how books get banned from schools in the first place, which to me is a bigger issue than a private publisher altering the n-word because the former actually ends up censoring an entire book and is done by the authorities.

[William Wallace]

Fucking pathetic, catering to people who are willing to ban books.

I don't how you could come to that conclusion...

Very easily. A small group of people is raising hell over the language in the book, and instead of telling them to fuck off, this professor is compromising with them.

Yea, but they didn't ban the book in that case. They just said they'll teach the material with more historical context so that there's less misunderstanding, which is better than telling the complainers to fuck off imo.

The point is that, that's how books get banned from schools in the first place, which to me is a bigger issue than a private publisher altering the n-word because the former actually ends up censoring an entire book and is done by the authorities.

Granted, the situation is more nuanced than I originally thought. But the group did, at first, push for a ban until the altered edition was published. I have no issue with a publisher releasing a new edition of the book. I'm more irritated with the school districts capitulation to people who are misinformed. Instead of bending, a better response would have been to answers their criticisms of the book and follow with "...for these reasons, we [the school, district, ect] feel that removing the book or altering the text is inappropriate."

[ack44]

Eh? That incident has no direct connection to the publication of the "censored" Huck Finn. The main guy behind this is a Mark Twain scholar who wants the book, which is constantly challenged in schools and taken out of the curriculum entirely, back in schools. The "n-word abolishers" aren't related to this publishing at all as far as I can tell.

[Orbert]

Okay, I changed my mind.  Or made it up finally.

I guess I'd rather see the book in schools in an altered form than not at all.  If that's the goal, then okay.  It shouldn't have to be done, but some people are stupid.

[William Wallace]

Eh? That incident has no direct connection to the publication of the "censored" Huck Finn. The main guy behind this is a Mark Twain scholar who wants the book, which is constantly challenged in schools and taken out of the curriculum entirely, back in schools. The "n-word abolishers" aren't related to this publishing at all as far as I can tell.

I had the details mixed up, my mistake. Nonetheless, compromising with groups like “The Coalition to Stop the N-Word,” who did want the book banned, is absurd. Instead of pushing the edited version, I would like to see Dr Gribben rebutting the attempts to ban the book. Another Twain scholar cited in the Wiki article is dead on, in my opinion:

Another Twain scholar, Thomas Wortham, argued that altering Twain's text will make for a book that "doesn't challenge children [and their teachers] to ask, 'Why would a child like Huck use such reprehensible language?'"

Why is getting students to think about racism and evaluate the impact it has had on literature such a dangerous idea?

[ack44]

Another Twain scholar, Thomas Wortham, argued that altering Twain's text will make for a book that "doesn't challenge children [and their teachers] to ask, 'Why would a child like Huck use such reprehensible language?'"

Why is getting students to think about racism and evaluate the impact it has had on literature such a dangerous idea?

Well nobody in this thread is arguing that. But I'm inclined to agree with Orbert. Minority groups with strong identities or peoples with a history of oppression can be very sensitive to certain words or symbols (examples of this can be found in the Gaza blockade thread). If students are actually discussing this book in class, the n-word, used 215 times, is going to be a huge topic of discussion and if the class is racially diverse, some people are going to be very offended. You can say it's dumb and elementary that African-Americans are offended by the n-word or that Jews are offended by swastikas, but it doesn't really address the underlying problem of why this book is vanishing from curriculums. 

[Adami]

I don't think there's any jews trying to get swastikas out of history books.

[orcus116]

Another Twain scholar, Thomas Wortham, argued that altering Twain's text will make for a book that "doesn't challenge children [and their teachers] to ask, 'Why would a child like Huck use such reprehensible language?'"

Why is getting students to think about racism and evaluate the impact it has had on literature such a dangerous idea?

Well nobody in this thread is arguing that. But I'm inclined to agree with Orbert. Minority groups with strong identities or peoples with a history of oppression can be very sensitive to certain words or symbols (examples of this can be found in the Gaza blockade thread). If students are actually discussing this book in class, the n-word, used 215 times, is going to be a huge topic of discussion and if the class is racially diverse, some people are going to be very offended. You can say it's dumb and elementary that African-Americans are offended by the n-word or that Jews are offended by swastikas, but it doesn't really address the underlying problem of why this book is vanishing from curriculums. 

It's vanishing because school districts are tired of one or two parents raising a commotion over something that really isn't that big a deal in the first place. As has been pointed out there is a perfectly good reason for the word to be in the book but all it takes is that one parent to react like "What?! You got a book that's nothing but 'Nigger this, nigger that'?!" who won't listen to any reasonable argument or history about the book to make it a living hell for not only the teacher but the principal, the school district and anyone else who will listen.

Having said that, coming from an incredibly racial diverse school system myself I can honestly say that if you have a class of students that is having a discussion on the use of the word in the book then the parents that would have a problem with the that word are not any parents of the students of that classroom. I mean, what's the use of trying to teach that book to regular education classes in (in my case) urban public schools? They're not going to listen anyways. You give it to the classes who could actually learn something from the book like the AP or Honors English classes, the ones with the students who could benefit from the message behind the book because they're intelligent enough to understand it. Those are the people who are potentially getting shunned.

[ack44]

Having said that, coming from an incredibly racial diverse school system myself I can honestly say that if you have a class of students that is having a discussion on the use of the word in the book then the parents that would have a problem with the that word are not any parents of the students of that classroom. I mean, what's the use of trying to teach that book to regular education classes in (in my case) urban public schools? They're not going to listen anyways. You give it to the classes who could actually learn something from the book like the AP or Honors English classes, the ones with the students who could benefit from the message behind the book because they're intelligent enough to understand it. Those are the people who are potentially getting shunned.

You're saying Huck Finn is too sophisticated for regular students to learn anything worthwhile?

So you went to a racially diverse school. Did you actually read Huck Finn in class and was the n-word an issue?

[orcus116]

Well having to take a few regular education classes I've been exposed to enough to know that most of those students don't give two shits about why they're even there. I'm talking about students who couldn't grasp the simple concept of compound interest on a loan so I can't imagine anything other than the thought of "the book has the word nigger in it, holy shit" going through their head even during a discussion about the history of the book.

We were not assigned Huck Finn though though we did read a number of short stories and novellas concerning racial issues. I can't remember exactly what they were since they were out of one of those giant English books. It's hard to say if the word was such an issue to people in my school because you were exposed to it a lot in the hallways. A lot of us were so desensitized to it that it wasn't really that big of a deal. Not that I'd have any reason to use it myself but its shock valve is so low because I was surrounded by it.

[William Wallace]

Another Twain scholar, Thomas Wortham, argued that altering Twain's text will make for a book that "doesn't challenge children [and their teachers] to ask, 'Why would a child like Huck use such reprehensible language?'"

Why is getting students to think about racism and evaluate the impact it has had on literature such a dangerous idea?

Well nobody in this thread is arguing that. But I'm inclined to agree with Orbert. Minority groups with strong identities or peoples with a history of oppression can be very sensitive to certain words or symbols (examples of this can be found in the Gaza blockade thread). If students are actually discussing this book in class, the n-word, used 215 times, is going to be a huge topic of discussion and if the class is racially diverse, some people are going to be very offended. You can say it's dumb and elementary that African-Americans are offended by the n-word or that Jews are offended by swastikas, but it doesn't really address the underlying problem of why this book is vanishing from curriculums. 

Discrimination is a part of most people's history in some form, and I don't find the feelings of a handful of parents or students a compelling enough reason to pull a book off a required reading list. It's not "dumb" to take offense at someone insulting a person because of their ethnicity. But is that what's happening in this instance? No. The schools aren't assigning Huck Finn to stereotype black people. It's a fascinating story that has historical and literary value. The critics should learn to distinguish between attempts to educate and discriminate. 

Parents, as they should, have the right to pull their kids out of a class they find objectionable, or have them assigned different reading. I saw the latter happen frequently in high school. Attempting to make decisions for everybody is the trouble, I think, especially when they're dead fucking wrong about the content of the book.

[zerogravityfat]

I believe that no part of art is open for censorship.

[jasc15]

With the fairly wide array of opinions represented on these forums, the near consensus on this topic makes me wonder what type of people wholeheartedly support and encourage this type of censorship.

[Adami]

With the fairly wide array of opinions represented on these forums, the near consensus on this topic makes me wonder what type of people wholeheartedly support and encourage this type of censorship.

Sadly there are plenty of angry people who want real life to be like a disney movie.