Author Topic: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)  (Read 55824 times)

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Online The Walrus

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #840 on: April 21, 2020, 09:14:48 AM »
Also while looking for Lalo's first appearance in BCS I found this very apt interaction between Nacho and Lalo. Season 4 Ep 8 ending.



Ohhhh good catch. And LOL @ that Lalo gif  :lol :lol I loved that part.

I'm really sweating for Kim and Nacho next season. That final shot of Lalo walking away right as the rage really built in him gave me goosebumps. Salamanca rage meter is at max and next season is gonna be bloody.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #841 on: April 21, 2020, 09:40:01 AM »
I'm also seeing a lot of people on twitter referencing this whole setup of Ignacio and Lalo in a couple of small throwaway lines from Saul in Breaking Bad in his introduction in Season 2 episode 8 when Walt and Jesse take him hostage.

Can't believe they built a whole series arc for Nacho and major involvement of Lalo in BCS from that BB scene.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #842 on: April 21, 2020, 09:45:50 AM »
I'm really sweating for Kim and Nacho next season. That final shot of Lalo walking away right as the rage really built in him gave me goosebumps. Salamanca rage meter is at max and next season is gonna be bloody.

And, I love how it started with him limping on gravel to by the time he exits the scene he's in a brisk walk and the gravel noise is a thunderstorm. Really cool.



I'm perfectly fine with where Kim is at. They've done a great job with her character and all along we've assumed it'd have been Jimmy's 'fault' she wasn't around in BCS. After the finale....it looks like she's actually the one who will be her own demise. But I'm sure it won't be that simple  :lol 

These were the best hitmen Gus could find? Really? :lol

Exactly what I was thinking. First, they needed help getting in the compound. Then, the first guy that Lalo noticed in the window had been in that position for a bit it seemed....he couldn't have gotten a shot off? Then, the whole assault just made zero sense. You have overwhelming numbers and fire power and get taken out by one dude. Pretty sad.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #843 on: April 21, 2020, 09:51:40 AM »
Is this the only mention of Nacho in Breaking Bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gM6_FCeiBA

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #844 on: April 21, 2020, 10:06:31 AM »
Is this the only mention of Nacho in Breaking Bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gM6_FCeiBA

Yup that's the scene I was referring to in my post. It probably is the only mention.
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Online The Walrus

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #845 on: April 21, 2020, 10:10:05 AM »
That is SO cool. Never caught that. Wow!

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #846 on: April 21, 2020, 10:49:14 AM »
^
Wow!  Thanks.

just passing along yet another great review from Rolling Stone

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-recaps/better-call-saul-season-5-finale-recap-something-unforgivable-984335/
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Offline Chino

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #847 on: April 21, 2020, 10:56:29 AM »
Is this the only mention of Nacho in Breaking Bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gM6_FCeiBA

Yup that's the scene I was referring to in my post. It probably is the only mention.

That's awesome.

Does that mean we're going to be getting Breaking Bad overlap in the final season and/or Nacho gets out of this alive?

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #848 on: April 21, 2020, 02:22:37 PM »
I could be dead wrong, but I think it's a given now that we will see "Gene" and Kim meet up in some fashion in the present (shown as the flash forwards).  She was wearing a Royals shirt last night, KC is about 3 hours south of Omaha, NE, and her hometown is listed as Red Cloud, NE (which is about 3 hours southwest of Omaha).  There is no way all of that is a coincidence.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #849 on: April 21, 2020, 03:13:26 PM »
These were the best hitmen Gus could find? Really? :lol

That was without a doubt the worst part of the episode. If you start thinking about it, none of it makes sense.
That said, it was intense indeed. Nacho is done for, definitely. He was on the verge of being able to become a big player, but there is no way (even if the attack had succeeded) that this was going to end well for him. I feel for him, he's being used by virtually everyone on the show. The only one who speaks up for him is Mike - and Lalo, surprisingly in the last episode.

Now what would have happened had Nacho not opened the gate?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #850 on: April 21, 2020, 03:29:35 PM »
My original thought process was that Lalo had figured out that Nacho was a traitor before going to Mexico, given that Lalo seems like a smart guy who is always ahead of the game combined with the fact that Nacho has the worst poker face ever (he always looks worried or aggravated). 

It was comical how awful those assassins were.  It was like watching a bad action movie from the 90's.  If nothing else, why is Nacho not on the look-out just in case anything went wrong (which it did)?  He could have easily taken out Lalo as he was leaning over the last assassin who was wounded on the ground.  That whole sequence was just poorly done.  The episode was otherwise very good, but it sucks for the final five minutes to have been so mediocre.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #851 on: April 21, 2020, 03:39:01 PM »
My original thought process was that Lalo had figured out that Nacho was a traitor before going to Mexico, given that Lalo seems like a smart guy who is always ahead of the game combined with the fact that Nacho has the worst poker face ever (he always looks worried or aggravated). 

My initial thought when Nacho walked out on the porch and Lalo was sitting there was actually: "Oh, shit, that phone call was fake. Lalo set him up. He's gonna be dead now."

Would have been more interesting probably?

It was comical how awful those assassins were.  It was like watching a bad action movie from the 90's.  If nothing else, why is Nacho not on the look-out just in case anything went wrong (which it did)?  He could have easily taken out Lalo as he was leaning over the last assassin who was wounded on the ground.  That whole sequence was just poorly done.  The episode was otherwise very good, but it sucks for the final five minutes to have been so mediocre.

Yes.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #852 on: April 21, 2020, 03:40:59 PM »
I totally disagree that that scene was bad or took away from the episode in any way, but that's just me. Yeah it's a bit unrealistic that Lalo killed so many of those guys on his own but there's a lot of unrealistic stuff in this show that we forgive. I really dug the whole shebang tbh. I suppose it just depends on how far you're willing to suspend your belief. Lalo's a straight up monster with no second thoughts about shooting people in the head and he's never scared enough to wear body armor or anything. He's a badass who knows how to kill, and I think that scene was effective (for me at least) at emphasizing those aspects of his character. Even the guys that snuck into the joint weren't going for the head; Lalo's got laser focus, "Nope, you're dying right now, buh-bye, next please" and I love that.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #853 on: April 21, 2020, 03:49:24 PM »
Is this the only mention of Nacho in Breaking Bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gM6_FCeiBA

Does that mean Nacho doesn't die in Better Call Saul?

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #854 on: April 21, 2020, 04:04:24 PM »
Great episode. Midway through I realised a parallel with these fantastic, lauded pulp crime noir comics I read. When Mike says to Jimmy, "Lalo Salamanca dies tonight" in his gravelly accent - boom! Fantastic! Right then I realised how much I love this stuff.

BCS might be my favourite show of all time.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #855 on: April 21, 2020, 05:45:29 PM »
Great interview with show creators Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould.
I like how pretty much everyone acknowledges how they don't plan too far ahead and just take it a season at a time.

The final season is going to be great no doubt in my mind but it's definitely looking like a long wait.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #856 on: April 22, 2020, 03:01:17 AM »
Thanks for that. Good interview.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #857 on: April 22, 2020, 03:14:01 PM »




Great episode! So excited for the final season.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #858 on: April 24, 2020, 09:19:02 PM »
I really liked season 5 a lot, and yet nothing really happened. Episodes just flew by, and when they were done the big picture was pretty much just as it had been. We got to see Hank, and introduced to early 8-ball. Mike officially climbed into bed with Gus, but we all knew that was inevitable. We got a great war between the two kingpins, which remains unresolved. Really, season 5 just seemed like time getting to know the players, and I really loved it.

I said last season that Kim was actually Saul Goodman, and I nailed it. She's far more into this sort of thing than Jimmy is at this point, and she gets off on it.

I really like Lalo. He's got such a wonderful zest for life, and a lively sense of humor. He's a ruthless killer, but only when he needs to be. Glad he's not dead. I bet he's pretty pissed off, though.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #859 on: April 24, 2020, 09:25:57 PM »
Eh, Mike doesn't strike me as someone who operates out of fear.  Shoot, he was ready for those gang bangers to kill him before the beatdown was presumably stopped by Gus' men and he was then moved to Mexico to recover.  My guess is that Gus sold him on that idea that Lalo was the reason for the extra pressure that put Gus in the position where he had no choice but to order Werner's death, Mike bought it, and he is now out for revenge against Lalo.
I agree that Mike doesn't operate out of fear. I'd go so far as to say he's fearless, and in fact, Gus has more reason to be afraid of him. But you raised a point that bugged me. How did Gus know to have Mike rescued? They glossed right over that. Is he under 24 hour surveillance? Considering the number of associates, Gus would be racking up quite a payroll having everybody spied upon.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #860 on: April 24, 2020, 09:28:49 PM »
Kim's gonna get whacked? Right?
I don't see it. That would be too dark. Besides which, I still maintain she shows back up in her home town. She might get disappeared. She might just move on. She's in the game now, but not that deep.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #861 on: April 24, 2020, 09:34:18 PM »
The beauty of this show (and BB) to me is how they film such mundane things like getting coffee or counting money and yet make it so entertaining to watch. Those sequences have payoffs or sometimes they don't but at that point you don't care because of how much joy you get from watching it.

That's why these two shows are on a whole another level.
Kim dropping oranges in the juicer while Jimmy was getting PTSD'd was an absolute thing of beauty.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #862 on: April 24, 2020, 09:36:19 PM »
Saul's cut was supposed to be 100k. I'd assume that's how much cash was in the bag.
Bundles of 10k each, 3, 4, and 3 laid sideways to provide scale. Vince is nothing if not meticulous in his details.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #863 on: April 25, 2020, 06:38:33 PM »
The beauty of this show (and BB) to me is how they film such mundane things like getting coffee or counting money and yet make it so entertaining to watch. Those sequences have payoffs or sometimes they don't but at that point you don't care because of how much joy you get from watching it.

That's why these two shows are on a whole another level.
Kim dropping oranges in the juicer while Jimmy was getting PTSD'd was an absolute thing of beauty.
Absolutely! That sequence was so well done, the sound and cut to Jimmy's face was intense. It also kinda setups the Godfather trope of something going to happen when oranges are shown.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #864 on: April 25, 2020, 06:42:37 PM »
Eh, Mike doesn't strike me as someone who operates out of fear.  Shoot, he was ready for those gang bangers to kill him before the beatdown was presumably stopped by Gus' men and he was then moved to Mexico to recover.  My guess is that Gus sold him on that idea that Lalo was the reason for the extra pressure that put Gus in the position where he had no choice but to order Werner's death, Mike bought it, and he is now out for revenge against Lalo.
I agree that Mike doesn't operate out of fear. I'd go so far as to say he's fearless, and in fact, Gus has more reason to be afraid of him. But you raised a point that bugged me. How did Gus know to have Mike rescued? They glossed right over that. Is he under 24 hour surveillance? Considering the number of associates, Gus would be racking up quite a payroll having everybody spied upon.

Haha, true, but remember that in the timeline, this was right after Mike blew off Gus in regards to working for him again, so Gus probably had a guy or two following him at night or something just to see what he was up to.  Considering what Mike had already done for Gus (killing Werner, for one), Gus had a vested interest in making sure Mike wasn't disgruntled enough to do something stupid like going to the cops or the feds.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #865 on: May 08, 2020, 03:49:54 AM »
Here I am, at the end! read through it all. Wondering why "not so many people were commenting"? well, one of them waited for the episodes to be available on Netflix and watched them all one episode per day!

So, here we are at the end, reveling in the beauty of one of the best "slow" series. There is a serious ability to be applauded for building a world so captivating, that scenes where nothing happens seem so enticing.

The first episodes seem slow. Having two wasted guys doing stupid shit around town screaming "50% off!" seem so trivial compared to what happened in the latter episodes.

Some random thoughts here and there:

- I still don't understand why Jimmy entered Howard's property to throw the balls from inside to outside, especially since he was not seeing where the car was. Did I miss something? have I misunderstood the layout of the house? to me it felt like he climbed inside Howard's premises and throw the balls out in the streets.

- The desert scenes were awesome, no wonder Vince Gilligan directed that episode, he really learnt from BB to do these shots. I thought that they were gonna use the ambush to get the car from the sole survivor of the shootout, maybe Jimmy should have pretended to walk casually, notice the car and run in the desert to force the guy to come down and chase him by foot, allowing Mike to shoot him.

I've read that the car was drive by a stuntman who does these kind of crazy sheaningans - so no CGI or tricks involved, there was a guy in the car (with the proper harnesses and safety measures of course) who literally and for real flipped the car he was driving to crash it. Wow.

- A long time coming, and yet I was not ready to see Kim...... break bad. When the stuff you propose to SAUL GOODMAN leave him worried, you've gotta wonder what you're doing. It's the equivalent of having Ozzy Osbourne concerned for your drugs habits.

- Also Kim is all kind of badass. Standing up to Lalo Salamanca telling him angrily to get his shit together was more than impressive. Wow.

- I'm still not sure at how the showdown in Mexico will go down. Gus realized that Juan Bolsa (second in command with only Don Eladio above him) wanted to get the bailout money. Why? he favors Gus? he wanted Lalo to rot in jail? who called the hit on Lalo? Bolsa himself? they made a point of making Lalo look at the bottle left by a suddenly gone Nacho - did he realize it was Nacho that opened the doors?

Also, I bet everyone though that "Something terrible" was what would have happened in Mexico, maybe Nacho had to kill a lot of people to get to Lalo.... but it was Kim's idea of framing Howard. Again, wow.

About Kim... I don't think she'll die, Saul Goodman as we know it in Breaking Bad is too joyful and too casual with women to be destroyed and heartbroken by Kim's death. Either Saul leaves her for her own good, realizing what a toxic influence he became on her, or Kim goes through with the plan to frame Howard, gets caught and disbarred, and leaves ABQ.

Totally cheesy scenario but imagine Howard facing a disbarred Kim claiming that Jimmy ruined her, copying the final Walter / Skyler meeting.

Kim: "Howard, you have to understand, all the things I've done..."
Howard: "If I have to hear one more time you defending Jimmy..."
Kim: "I did it for me. I was good at it. It made me feel.... alive"

 ;D

Great Rolling Stone interview btw. I love how Vince is so self conscious about the rules of writing, and how they are committed to stick to the landing. I totally forgot by now but also after El Camino I've read a passage in an interview that made me realize how much he's serious about the rules of writing and offering a quality product. Total opposite of the writers of Game of Thrones.

Anyway, to think we're at this stage thanks to a throaway line in Breaking Bad, that they had Saul say ("It was not me! it was Ignacio! did Lalo send you?") just to write up a generic "this lawyer has shady connection" scene. That's like getting Scenes from a Memory just because Petrucci thought it was clever and witty to add the tag "Part 1" to Metropolis for no real reason at all.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #866 on: May 08, 2020, 05:26:08 AM »
I have always loved that Vince Gilligan is able to step back and listen to what others have to say about storylines and characters, etc.. he's always so respectful to what serves the story best rather than overruling everyone to put his stamp on things. At least in respect to the Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul world.

To me it's why these shows are such a joy to watch and rewatch.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #867 on: May 08, 2020, 10:48:57 AM »

- I still don't understand why Jimmy entered Howard's property to throw the balls from inside to outside, especially since he was not seeing where the car was. Did I miss something? have I misunderstood the layout of the house? to me it felt like he climbed inside Howard's premises and throw the balls out in the streets.

I think you got turned around somehow. To my eyes......Jimmy was standing on the outside of Howard's gate and chucked the balls over. I think the wall he scaled was just a divider between homes....that he just didn't come in from the front. Maybe he knew Howard had camera's or something.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #868 on: May 08, 2020, 12:14:29 PM »

- I still don't understand why Jimmy entered Howard's property to throw the balls from inside to outside, especially since he was not seeing where the car was. Did I miss something? have I misunderstood the layout of the house? to me it felt like he climbed inside Howard's premises and throw the balls out in the streets.

I think you got turned around somehow. To my eyes......Jimmy was standing on the outside of Howard's gate and chucked the balls over. I think the wall he scaled was just a divider between homes....that he just didn't come in from the front. Maybe he knew Howard had camera's or something.

Makes more sense explained it this way, thanks.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #869 on: May 08, 2020, 12:45:29 PM »

- The desert scenes were awesome, no wonder Vince Gilligan directed that episode, he really learnt from BB to do these shots. I thought that they were gonna use the ambush to get the car from the sole survivor of the shootout, maybe Jimmy should have pretended to walk casually, notice the car and run in the desert to force the guy to come down and chase him by foot, allowing Mike to shoot him.


That was definitely an accident. They certainly wanted to take the guy's car, but shooting a tire/driver doing 50mph will have unpredictable results. Also, I doubt the guy would have chased him on foot. He would have just shot him in the back. Popping the driver was probably the safer way to go.

Quote
I've read that the car was drive by a stuntman who does these kind of crazy sheaningans - so no CGI or tricks involved, there was a guy in the car (with the proper harnesses and safety measures of course) who literally and for real flipped the car he was driving to crash it. Wow.
That's how car stunts were done for 50 years before CGI became affordable. And for some directors it's still how it's done. That one was a little more violent than something from Dukes of Hazard, but it's still the same premise.

Quote
- Also Kim is all kind of badass. Standing up to Lalo Salamanca telling him angrily to get his shit together was more than impressive. Wow.
I agree that Kim's a badass, but not for that scene. They both thought he was going to kill them, so she literally had nothing to lose. Had that speech failed, the next one probably would have ended with y chinga tu madre, cabrona!.  It was when she pulled the same stunt with the banker that convinced me. That was actually a real gamble with real world consequences that she wouldnb't be dead for, and right next to her boss, to boot. 
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #870 on: May 19, 2020, 11:37:48 AM »
Giving a  :tup to MirrorMask for his post.  I enjoyed the read.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #871 on: May 19, 2020, 11:55:14 AM »
Thanks man! it's gonna suck to wait for such a long time for the end, but it will be worth it.

This universe is so engrained and well created, that I wouldn't mind after this an anthology show about the Albuquerque of Breaking Bad. Have every season dedicated to a different character that lives in the same universe. I don't mean having a spinoff for Kim, for Howard, etc.... just any other new character, this universe is so well done that any story in it is potentially interesting.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #872 on: May 19, 2020, 12:02:28 PM »
FIFTY PERCENT OFF!!!

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #873 on: May 19, 2020, 12:19:38 PM »
Thanks man! it's gonna suck to wait for such a long time for the end, but it will be worth it.

This universe is so engrained and well created, that I wouldn't mind after this an anthology show about the Albuquerque of Breaking Bad. Have every season dedicated to a different character that lives in the same universe. I don't mean having a spinoff for Kim, for Howard, etc.... just any other new character, this universe is so well done that any story in it is potentially interesting.
Huell. He probably gets up to interesting stuff when he's not with Goodman.

Vince Gilligan has already said that this universe is ending with Saul. He doesn't want it to continue indefinitely. I feel the same as you, though, even though I have no idea how it could continue.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #874 on: May 19, 2020, 12:27:22 PM »
Yeah, that's probably the smartest thing to do. I'm not saying I'm demanding, requiring and praying for more BB-Albuquerque based stories; I just think that if he wanted to do it, and his heart was into it, he could be able to do something interesting about it. But I agree in the end that it's good to end with Better Call Saul.
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