Dream Theater > Dream Theater

Systematic Chaos vs. Black Clouds

(1/18) > >>

bosk1:
I've been listening to these two albums more than anything else from DT lately.  Both are great albums, although to me, Black Clouds is easily better.  For whatever reason, I found myself doing a song-by-song comparison the other day, so I thought I'd share.  No real point to this thread, other than pointless discussion.  Feel free to comment if you choose.  Some of the comparisons seemed completey obvious.  Others are a bit forced and could have been done differently, but they are what they are.  I eliminated Prophets of War from the discussion because (1) I hate it, (2) it's the "extra" song on SC (SC has one more song than BCSL if you count ITPOE as one song), and (3) it doesn't have any easily-definable counterpart on BCSL.  Anyhow:

-The "gratuitous heavy song":  A Nightmare to Remember vs. The Dark Eternal Night.  I could have gone with The Shattered Fortress here instead of ANTR, but then there wouldn't have been a song that ANTR really matched up against--at least nothing that made sense to me.  Anyhow, I really enjoy both, but ANTR is just about perfect, so it easily wins.  TDEN is heavy, fun, and catchy.  ANTR is a stellar piece of music that fires on all cylinders from start to finish.
-The "metal single":  A Right of Passage vs. Constant Motion.  These songs also share a structural similarity and an overall similar feel.  Again, I enjoy both  I enjoy AROP about as much as I enjoy TDEN.  But CM is just amazing.  Not a weak moment in the song.  
-The "shorter, 'pop-metal' single":  Wither vs. Forsaken.  Again, I like them both.  Nothing wrong with Wither.  It probably is more emotional.  The subject matter is cool and interesting, and the lyrics convey the subject matter very poetically.  But there's just something about Forsaken that gives it the edge here.  Sonically, it's just more "fun."
-The Twelve Step songs:  The Shattered Fortress vs. Repentence.  Both good songs.  And, again, this grouping is somewhat arbitrary since the songs are very different.  But it is what it is--if I did it differently, it would be hard to match up songs across the two albums.  Repentence is a nice break from all the heavy, has a terrific guitar solo, and a really cool concept for the second half of the song.  Unfortunately, it just feels like it repeats and drages on endlessly during that second half.  TSF is great.  It's only faults are that perhaps it reprises the earlier material just a bit too much, has some transitions that highlight the first point and make a couple of the reprises sound just a bit too forced, and like a few of its predecessors, is probably about a minute too long.  Still, a great song.  It wins.
-The "shorter, melodic epics":  The Best of Times vs. The Ministry of Lost Souls.  This category of songs really hasn't done it for me on the last couple of albums.  Neither of these songs are bad, but I also don't really like either.  I get the emotional significance of TBOT, and can definitely identify with the song, but at the same time, it doesn't really strike a chord with me.  TMOLS just bores me.  The instrumental section is terrific, but sounds like it should be in a different song.  The rest of the song goes nowhere for me.  Despite having a familiar feel that reminds me of a lot of the truly great DT epics and "almost-epics," it pales in comparison.  Still, I probably give it the nod over TBOT.
-The "epic."  The Count of Tuscany vs. In the Presence of Enemies.  TCOT is great.  Some of the phrasing in the first two verses really reminds me of Lucretia.  Fun lyrics.  Good music.  But I feel like the instrumental section in the middle with the volume swells just kills all momentum and sucks the life out of the song.  Yeah, it's melodic, and sounds great, and is really atmospheric and cool.  But it just slows the momentum of the song to a crawl and then drags too long.  It is for this reason that the song loses.  ITPOE almost does the same thing during the transition between pt. 1 and pt. 2, but saves itself because it doesn't drag that long and because it perfectly sets the stage for JM's eery bass part.  Pt. 1 is near perfect.  Pt. 2 only really loses steam during the instrumental section, and ove time, I've come to like the instrumental section a lot more than I previously did.  ITPOE wins.

Interestingly, if I were to simply score the album on a song-by-song basis, based on the above, SC wins 4-2.  But I still feel like BCSL is the superior album by quite a bit.  As I've said numerous times, SC contains perhaps the strongest half an album of DT material.  But, overall, it just doesn't feel very consistent as an album.

The Letter M:
I recall doing such a comparison with the exact same match-ups!

For me, it would probably be the same, except Wither| > Forsaken, and the harder choice would be between ITPOE and TCOT. I would probably settle for ITPOE though.

Oddly enough, your choices could all fit onto one album with some minor tweaking and editing as the track times would add up to just over 81 minutes, but it could still work.

-Marc.

bosk1:
Interesting.  I didn't realize that.  Well, I guess if you cross-fade the transition between parts on ITPOE to make it more like how they played it on tour, that shaves off a little from that song.  Otherwise, I guess just put TMOLS at the end and let it cut off whenever time runs out.  I probably wouldn't listen to it much anyway, so I wouldn't be missing anything.  :lol

JayOctavarium:
Hey I like Prophets of War....


Wow bosk, I agree with your entire thing, minus your opinion on PoW. PoW coulda been used as a B side or something to your super album you just unknowingly put together









EDIT: actually, replace TSF with PoW, and we are set!

King Postwhore:
I found BC to be more of an uplifting cd compared to SC.  Mabye it's the choral structures, the lyrics, or better melodies.  But I gravitate more towards this with DT.  Not with all bands but for some reason I do with DT.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page