Oceansize (RIP 2011) v. VENNART 2011-Present "Forgiveness & The Grain" (2/2/24)

[faemir]

Reminds me of another band...

[wjc]

How is Cloak as good as Silent/Transparent?

[Zantera]

How is Cloak as good as Silent/Transparent?

Who said it was?
Cloak is actually a rather fantastic song, but Silent/Transparent is my favorite from Self Preserved, so I wouldn't hold Cloak AS high.
Still a very solid tune though, love the unique vibe it has.

[faemir]

I worked out what the problem with self preserved is.

After the final segment of Oscar, ransoms and a penny's weight are too slow, which makes the whole album feel like it drags. Take them out and it's far better. I'm gonna play around with the track arrangement once i know the album better. SuperImposter isn't a very good closer either compared to their others, Oscar or Silent/Transparent would work far better (though its a great song)

[Zantera]

Superimposter is actually a very great closer IMO, it has a very unique-vibe to it.
But I rarely get to experience it as a closer, seeing as I listen mostly to the special edition with Cloak as the closer instead, and I think that song works good as well.
Silent/Transparent wouldn't really be a good closer, the climax isn't the 'closing an album'-type of climax, it's no The Frame-climax we're talking about here, and also... one of the best parts on the album is the transition from Silent/Transparent to It's My Tail...
Don't think Oscar would've been a good closer either, kinda like the same with Silent/Transparent, the whole ending of the song doesn't feel like it would fit the use of ending a full album.

As for the album dragging, I don't agree at all.
Ransoms and A Penny's Weight are both fantastic, and if two mellow songs in a row means that an album drags, then there would be far more worse examples.

[faemir]

I love the two songs, but I still think it slows the pace down too much, so it's easy to lose interest - I have a similar problem with Alaska by BTBAM.

Okay maybe not S/T, but Oscar would work fine. I like closers to either be bombastic or gradual - and Oscar fits the second fine. SuperImposter is a great song, but it just seems to just...end. It's not a mini-epic, it's just a good song.

How good is Cloak?

[Zantera]

Cloak is rather great, maybe not so much as an individual track, but as a closer its good.
It's a very subtle song, both in instrumentation and vocals, so it kinda gives the album a certain 'fading out'-feel, before the album ends.
It's pretty good in that sense, seeing as Part Cardiac kinda fades into some heaviness as the opener.

[Pirate]

Okay, this is a big thing for me... Oceansize has overtaken PT as my favourite band with my latest listen of Everyone Into Position. This album is too good. Each song is good in a way that it shares with no other song on the album (i.e. they are all unique) and each song I listen to I think "This must be the best song on the album". This album is incredibly diverse and IMO the band covers each explored sound and feel perfectly. The album is a masterpiece.

The thing is, it isn't even my favourite release by this band. I still think Frames is better. IMO, Oceansize has reached higher highs than PT and done it more consistently in their short existence. The only songs where I think PT contends with Oceansize are Dark Matter, ASBNH (I seem to like this one more than some other members on here), Anesthetize (I actually do like the third section and I think the song is paced perfectly) and the slightly more obscure Stars Die (while this might not be the most exciting song, it really puts me in a mood and IMO lacks any real flaws).

Sure PT has some great songs (really the only ones I dislike are all on OtSoL) but they are of a totally different style from Oceansize, and I like Oceansize's style better.

But god fucking damnit I wish I got to see them together on stage.

[Zantera]

Dude, I get exactly where you're coming from, seeing as I feel the same way.
It's actually pretty crazy.
PT is still my second favorite band, but I'd almost say that Oceansize's lows are equal to PT's highs, Oceansize really are that fantastic, even if it makes me a fanboy. 

[faemir]

Okay, this is a big thing for me... Oceansize has overtaken PT as my favourite band with my latest listen of Everyone Into Position. This album is too good. Each song is good in a way that it shares with no other song on the album (i.e. they are all unique) and each song I listen to I think "This must be the best song on the album". This album is incredibly diverse and IMO the band covers each explored sound and feel perfectly. The album is a masterpiece.

The thing is, it isn't even my favourite release by this band. I still think Frames is better. IMO, Oceansize has reached higher highs than PT and done it more consistently in their short existence. The only songs where I think PT contends with Oceansize are Dark Matter, ASBNH (I seem to like this one more than some other members on here), Anesthetize (I actually do like the third section and I think the song is paced perfectly) and the slightly more obscure Stars Die (while this might not be the most exciting song, it really puts me in a mood and IMO lacks any real flaws).

Sure PT has some great songs (really the only ones I dislike are all on OtSoL) but they are of a totally different style from Oceansize, and I like Oceansize's style better.

But god fucking damnit I wish I got to see them together on stage.

I saw them on stage together

[mizzl]

No matter how much brilliant music Oceansize made, they will never, ever top Porcupine Tree IMO

[Zantera]

No matter how much brilliant music Oceansize made, they will never, ever top Porcupine Tree IMO

Yeah but nobody cares about your opinion. 
Nah but seriously, to each is own.
I understand people having PT as their favorite band, because they were mine for a very long time, and I still consider them to be second behind Oceansize.

Also, Faemir.. any update on your fanboyism towards this band? 

[Pirate]

One other thing about Oceansize that sets it apart from PT - almost all of their tunes are completely original-sounding (at least to me). There are PT songs where you can tell, "Oh Steven must have been listening to album X while he wrote Y". With Oceansize there might a riff or two that seem like they are similar to a certain bands style, but that one riff will be embedded in a song containing twenty other riffs completely different from it. The combination of different stylistic elements in Oceansize's music (it's a very dense, layered sound) make it original.

[Zantera]

Yeah I agree.
Also, I feel like Oceansize has more variety in their sound then PT, or at least pull it off in a slightly better way.
Not dissin' on PT at all, but some people talk about SW's music have a certain 'mood' (no matter what kind of music it is), and I can understand them to a certain degree.

Anyhow, great to see more people getting hooked on Size.
Have you had the time to hear the B-sides and such, Pirate?
Apart from the studio-albums and the two EP's (Music For Nurses and Home & Minor), there are quite a few B-sides spread out on singles and such, and they are really fantastic as well.

[Pirate]

Well, the thing is I'm a young lad without an endless supply of cash so I haven't bought any of the albums, but I 'own' them if you know what I mean. I can't find the EPs where I got the albums, but I have heard some of the songs you've mentioned like Paper Champion and Getting Where Water Cannot, just from Youtube uploads. They were mighty good, so I'll have to allocate those EPs somehow.

[Zantera]

Well, the thing is I'm a young lad without an endless supply of cash so I haven't bought any of the albums, but I 'own' them if you know what I mean. I can't find the EPs where I got the albums, but I have heard some of the songs you've mentioned like Paper Champion and Getting Where Water Cannot, just from Youtube uploads. They were mighty good, so I'll have to allocate those EPs somehow.

Yeah I know what you mean, I own the studio-albums, Home & Minor and Feed to Feed, but on the computer I have pretty much everything they have released.
There are quite a lot of B-sides, but it shouldn't be too hard for you to find it.

[zxlkho]

No matter how much brilliant music Oceansize made, they will never, ever top Porcupine Tree IMO

yeee

[Sigz]

I like oceansize and all, but they've never really stood out for me beyond just being a 'good' band.

[faemir]

Sorry to disappoint Zantera, i've been on a Muse-fest

[Ravenheart]

I'm just curious: Where do all the PT and Oceansize comparisons come from? I mean, I see a few vague similarities, but it never occurred to me that they have a lot of uncanny resemblances to each others' sounds. Maybe I'm not hearing them right, though.

And aside from Frames, I don't think Oceansize have had any "classic" albums, to be honest. They're very good, though.

[Zantera]

Sound-wise Oceansize and PT aren't similar at all, but it's a common comparison because they are both two bands within the "new"-prog scene, and many people who listen to that type of music would consider at least one of them their favorite band. 

As for Frames being the only 'classic', personally I have it as my favorite, but that doesn't make the rest albums any less good.
This is one of the few examples with a band where I just love everything, albums, EP's, B-sides and all, a quality that even PT don't have for me. (they do have some meh-songs throughout)
But yeah, two great bands.

Faemir @ I'm not sure what's most disappointing, not listening to Oceansize or wasting time listening to Muse. 

[ClairvoyantCat]

I'm just curious: Where do all the PT and Oceansize comparisons come from? I mean, I see a few vague similarities, but it never occurred to me that they have a lot of uncanny resemblances to each others' sounds. Maybe I'm not hearing them right, though.

The Porcupine Tree comparisons are made mostly by association, I guess, as I think Steven Wilson has had nice words about Oceansize and vice/versa.  Unless you mean exclusively here, in which case you can probably blame all of the PT fanboys. 

Personally I'm with Sigz on Oceansize, I like them a lot, especially with the Effloresce album which is my favorite of theirs, but I wouldn't consider them a top band of mine, really.

But hey, opinionators gonna opinionate

[Zantera]

Personally I'm with Sigz on Oceansize, I like them a lot, especially with the Effloresce album which is my favorite of theirs, but I wouldn't consider them a top band of mine, really.

But bro.. I thought we would get married and adopt kids n stuff. 

[ClairvoyantCat]

Oh silly ole' Oceansize isn't getting in the way of that


they can be the wedding band, actually

[Ravenheart]

Makes sense, I guess.

The Porcupine Tree comparisons are made mostly by association, I guess, as I think Steven Wilson has had nice words about Oceansize and vice/versa.  Unless you mean exclusively here, in which case you can probably blame all of the PT fanboys. 

Yeah  that's what triggered me to ask the question in the first place.

[Zantera]

Also, Zander.. you really need to listen to moar Oceansize, so you can come and live with me and Seth, in your own room above the garage. 

[Ravenheart]

Ok, but I want air conditioning for at least 5 minutes a day.

[Zantera]

That we can do! 

[King Postwhore]

Zantera,  can you give me a few recommendations to start me on Oceansize?

[Zantera]

Sure.
I'd say all four are good starting points for different reasons, but the first three seem to work better generally then the latest album.
Frames is probably considered their best by the majority of fans, I would say that it is an 'album-album', in the way that all songs are really great, and you don't really want to skip one.
It displays most of the band's different styles and influences, and overall it is fairly progressive.
Everyone Into Position is comparable to albums like In Absentia and Images & Words in the way that it's more "easy" to get into, because some of the songs are more accessible, something the band has gotten both good and negative reviews about.
This album has a good mix of easier and more 'straightforward' songs, and some really long and epic, progressive-songs.
Effloresce is their debute album, and I would probably say that it's their most progressive studio-album, sound-wise.
It has a lot of really strong tracks, combined with a few instrumental shorties in between, and overall it has both shorter and catchier tunes, and longer & more progressive songs.

You really can't go wrong with any of these, so just go for what sounds the most appealing for now, and if that one doesn't click, you can always check out any of the others.

[Quadrochosis]

I started with Frames and worked my way backwards from there, for what it's worth. Great, great band. Zantera's descriptions are pretty much spot on.

[King Postwhore]

Thank you I'm taking notes now!!

[Zantera]

Sounds cool! Hopefully you'll like them.

[Jamesman42]

So I went to bed early last night and decided to put Frames on to have some music to fall asleep to.

Holy. Crap.

I drifted in and out of sleep, but it was I was in the album. The music was gorgeous and made the whole experience beautiful. I made it to The Frame to where I fell asleep. I can already tell this album will be a top 50 for me.

That was my second listen to the album thus far.

[King Postwhore]

So I picked up

Effloresce
Everyone Into Position
Frames
Self Preserved While the Bodies Float Up

Someone suggest which album to listen to right now when I work in my yard.