Author Topic: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol  (Read 3514 times)

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Offline William Wallace

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FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« on: December 22, 2010, 01:41:08 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/17/alcohol.caffeine.drinks/index.html?hpt=C1

Once it starts, the hysteria doesn't stop.
Quote
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration told the manufacturers of seven caffeinated alcoholic beverages Wednesday that their drinks are a "public health concern" and can't stay on the market in their current form.

The move follows a year-long review by the FDA, which gave the companies 15 days to either reformulate their products or face possible seizure under federal law, said Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, the agency's principal deputy commissioner. Experts have said the caffeine used in the beverages can mask the effects of alcohol, leaving drinkers unaware of how intoxicated they are.

"FDA does not find support for the claim that the addition of caffeine to these alcoholic beverages is 'generally recognized as safe,' which is the legal standard," Sharfstein told reporters. "To the contrary, there is evidence that the combinations of caffeine and alcohol in these products pose a public health concern."

One of the companies that received warning letters was Phusion Projects, of Chicago, Illinois, which makes Four Loko -- a drink nicknamed "blackout in a can" by some users. The company announced Tuesday that it was dropping caffeine and two other ingredients, guarana and taurine, from Four Loko in the face of "a difficult and politically-charged regulatory environment."

The other companies are San Diego, California-based United Brands, which manufactures the Joose and Max brands; Portland, Oregon's Charge Beverages Corp., which sells Core High Gravity HG, Core High Gravity HG Orange, and Lemon Lime Core Spiked; and New Century Brewing of Boston, Massachusetts, which makes Moonshot.

Sharfstein called Phusion's decision to drop caffeine and two other ingredients a "positive step" Wednesday. And in a statement issued after the decision, the company said it was pleased by FDA's response.

"As we stated yesterday, we have stopped the production and shipment of all our products containing these ingredients," the company said. "We will continue to work closely and cooperatively with national and state regulators."

But New Century proprietor Rhonda Kallman told CNN she was puzzled by the FDA's decision to include Moonshot on its list.
"I don't know what to say except I'm really shocked about the outcome of the FDA's inquiry, and I need more answers than what I've gotten," said Kallman, who said she is New Century's only full-time employee.
Alcohol energy drinks under scrutiny 'Blackout in a can'?

Kallman described Moonshot as a craft beer that has about 4 percent alcohol by weight, about two-thirds the caffeine of a cup of coffee and is sold in only three cities -- "and yet it's being singled out with Four Loko and Joose."

"Those brands are neon green. They're not beer, they're juice, with 200 grams of sodium and artificial everything," she said.
United Brands said Tuesday that it would review any new FDA guidelines, but noted it was unaware "of a single incident of injury or other harm associated with its products." Neither United nor Charge Beverages had responded to requests for comment after the announcement.
The FDA has no authority to ban the products outright. But Sharfstein said the review is still going on, and "We expect these warning letters to be read across the industry."

"This will send a message to the industry about the importance of looking directly at these alcoholic beverages and how the FDA will respond to that," he said.

The FDA began its review in November 2009, after complaints from officials in several states. The controversy exploded in October, when nine underage students at Central Washington University were hospitalized after drinking Four Loko, both on its own and mixed with other drinks, police reported.

Critics say drinks like Four Loko mix caffeine equal to the amount in three cups of coffee with the alcoholic equivalent of three cans of beer and are designed to appeal to younger consumers accustomed to consuming high-caffeine energy drinks. A 23.5-ounce can of Four Loko contains either 6 or 12 percent alcohol by volume, depending on state regulations.

Phusion has compared Four Loko to popular drinks like rum and cola or Irish coffee that also mix caffeine and alcohol. But "we didn't see these kinds of events when people were drinking irish coffees," Robert McKenna, Washington's state attorney general, told reporters.
"What we're seeing now is striking, and we need to take quick action," McKenna said.

Washington and four other states -- New York, Utah, Michigan and Oklahoma -- already have taken steps to remove Four Loko and similar drinks from store shelves. And Gil Kerlikowske, the White House anti-drug czar, praised the FDA for moving against products he said are "designed, branded, and promoted to encourage binge drinking."

"Acting early to protect public health is critical and a vital component of the Obama administration's effort to reduce drug use and its consequences," he said.

Combining large amounts of caffeine and alcohol produces "a wide-awake drunk," said Dr. Mary Claire O'Brien, an associate professor of emergency medicine at Wake Forest University's medical school in North Carolina. But since caffeine's effect wears off faster than alcohol's, she said, drinkers are left with "much more alcohol than he would have been able to tolerate -- and that leads to blackouts."
"If you're going to drink caffeine, drink it responsibly. If you're going to drink alcohol, drink it responsibly," said O'Brien, who has studied the drinks extensively. "But mixing them is dangerous, because you might not know when you've had too much to drink."

Offline orcus116

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 01:52:59 PM »
Now still available in bars: Redbull and (anything)

Offline Fuzzboy

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 02:04:34 PM »
Goddammit this is so retarded.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 02:09:33 PM »
Now still available in bars: Redbull and (anything)
Actually, some places won't even do that anymore.

Offline zerogravityfat

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 06:07:45 PM »
it's so dangerous that it's a good call.
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Offline Nigerius Rex

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 10:40:22 PM »
Quote
it's so dangerous that it's a good call.

Except that it wont change people mixing alcohol and caffeine or drinking too much without caffeine. Also:

Quote
United Brands said Tuesday that it would review any new FDA guidelines, but noted it was unaware "of a single incident of injury or other harm associated with its products." Neither United nor Charge Beverages had responded to requests for comment after the announcement.

Offline William Wallace

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 01:41:20 AM »
it's so dangerous that it's a good call.
That just ain't so, and I'm speaking strictly in scientific terms. The research on the effects of caffeinated alcohol doesn't justify a ban.

 

Offline Chino

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 06:52:26 AM »
I understand the concern among the general public, but this means I will no longer be able to drink one of my favorite beers.


Offline El Barto

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 08:27:03 AM »
it's so dangerous that it's a good call.
That just ain't so, and I'm speaking strictly in scientific terms. The research on the effects of caffeinated alcohol doesn't justify a ban.

 
Not to mention that the harm isn't with the ingredients, but the behavior of the consumer. 
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Offline ddtonfire

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 08:54:36 AM »
My personal research into this topic led me to conclude that nothing good can come from Four Loko.

Offline William Wallace

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 10:33:06 AM »
My personal research into this topic led me to conclude that nothing good can come from Four Loko.
That's great, so don't drink it.

Offline orcus116

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2010, 10:35:41 AM »
Not to mention that the harm isn't with the ingredients, but the behavior of the consumer. 

Keep your logic out of here.

Offline Fuzzboy

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 12:59:45 PM »
Not to mention that the harm isn't with the ingredients, but the behavior of the consumer. 

Keep your logic out of here.

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Offline ddtonfire

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 04:25:12 PM »
My personal research into this topic led me to conclude that nothing good can come from Four Loko.
That's great, so don't drink it.
Of course! It was once for the novelty... and something to tell the grandkids one day ("Way back before they invented synthohol and consumer-safe methamphetamine, there was this drink, they called it...").

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2010, 07:09:45 PM »
it's so dangerous that it's a good call.
That just ain't so, and I'm speaking strictly in scientific terms. The research on the effects of caffeinated alcohol doesn't justify a ban.

 
Not to mention that the harm isn't with the ingredients, but the behavior of the consumer. 

THIS IS THE FUCKING KICKER RIGHT HERE.  People are aware of the dangers of alcohol, but we can't ban alcohol because we had that whole mob violence prohibition thing.  So now people are saying that Four Lokos and stuff are dangerous because...they get people massively drunk?  So does tequila!  Its absolutely ridiculous.  Not to mention that before these drinks showed up, people were doing jagerbombs and red bull/vodka mixes. 

Don't the FDA have anything better to do?  Like make sure drugs that cause harm without the consumer's help or stupid behavior don't hit the market?

Offline ack44

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2010, 08:38:17 PM »
Don't the FDA have anything better to do?  Like make sure drugs that cause harm without the consumer's help or stupid behavior don't hit the market?

 That's probably the best explanation for this. They just don't have anything better to do. They need to justify their existence and all the funding they get.

wtf is the internet?

Offline Global Laziness

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2010, 11:59:52 PM »
I have yet to try the energy drink/alcohol combination but it's one that really intrigues me. Although to be honest, I've only had one energy drink in my life and I didn't perceive it to have done anything.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 04:32:33 AM »
it's so dangerous that it's a good call.
That just ain't so, and I'm speaking strictly in scientific terms. The research on the effects of caffeinated alcohol doesn't justify a ban.

 

Seems you haven't had a friend try 4Lokos.  Almost killed himself drinking that stuff.  I'm glad they've made the ban.
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Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2010, 06:30:47 AM »
Just looking on facebook, and seeing so many statuses along the lines of "can't remember last night. thanks 4 loko", I'm glad it's banned

Seriously, there's no way that shit should be legal :-\

Offline orcus116

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2010, 09:24:45 AM »
Honestly they could've just as easily said that about any alcoholic drink. The reason people are not only drinking 4Loko and drinking too much of it is the allure of it being such a hot topic. That's also the reason they mention it.

Offline El Barto

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2010, 09:45:06 AM »
Yeah, honestly, have you ever heard any discussion about tequila that wasn't specifically about how wild things got?  Plenty of people enjoy drinking whiskey or vodka, and do so responsibly.  The only time people drink tequila is when they're deliberately trying to get shitfaced.  How about Jäger or Goldschläger?  You hear many stories about responsible consumption of those?
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Offline orcus116

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2010, 09:46:55 AM »
I'm convinced tequila is purely a placebo effect. I drank half a fifth one night just to experiment and it was no different than any other liquor drunk.

Offline El Barto

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2010, 10:13:40 AM »
Tequila is usually consumed by shots as a social ritual.  That's going to add considerably to the effect. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline William Wallace

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2010, 07:45:42 PM »
Just looking on facebook, and seeing so many statuses along the lines of "can't remember last night. thanks 4 loko", I'm glad it's banned

Seriously, there's no way that shit should be legal :-\
I'm glad to hear that facebook status updates are enough to convince people to ban things. There isn't a shred of evidence to justify the hype. This is whole thing is being driven by vote hustlers and busy bodies. 

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2011, 01:41:04 PM »
Just looking on facebook, and seeing so many statuses along the lines of "can't remember last night. thanks 4 loko", I'm glad it's banned

Seriously, there's no way that shit should be legal :-\
I'm glad to hear that facebook status updates are enough to convince people to ban things. There isn't a shred of evidence to justify the hype. This is whole thing is being driven by vote hustlers and busy bodies. 

And the personal accounts of people who have drunk it don't mean anything then? Facebook statuses aside, these are real people's experiences. And just because you've never had a bad experience does not mean that it's perfectly safe.

My problem with this drink is that it's targeted at the kids who don't fucking know better. Do you see 40-somethings at bars drinking this stuff? No. it's all dumb college kids who'll keep buying it cuz 'zomg i wanna get waysted'.

i've heard nothing but bad things about it from the people who have actually had it. granted, a lot of it has to do with their stupidity, but that doesn't make the drink less dangerous

Offline William Wallace

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2011, 11:00:59 PM »
Just looking on facebook, and seeing so many statuses along the lines of "can't remember last night. thanks 4 loko", I'm glad it's banned

Seriously, there's no way that shit should be legal :-\
I'm glad to hear that facebook status updates are enough to convince people to ban things. There isn't a shred of evidence to justify the hype. This is whole thing is being driven by vote hustlers and busy bodies. 

And the personal accounts of people who have drunk it don't mean anything then? Facebook statuses aside, these are real people's experiences. And just because you've never had a bad experience does not mean that it's perfectly safe.

My problem with this drink is that it's targeted at the kids who don't fucking know better. Do you see 40-somethings at bars drinking this stuff? No. it's all dumb college kids who'll keep buying it cuz 'zomg i wanna get waysted'.

i've heard nothing but bad things about it from the people who have actually had it. granted, a lot of it has to do with their stupidity, but that doesn't make the drink less dangerous
These are all anecdotes you're basing your judgment on; that's never wise when setting policies for the entire country. What you need is scientific evidence to justify a nationwide ban. The problem is, there's little available - a handful of observational studies that even the researchers admit is limited.

Say what you will about moronic college kids, but there's nothing special about the drink. Binge drinking existed long before someone decided to mix stimulants with alcohol in the same can and it'll exist still if they really ban four loko, joose, etc.

Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2011, 01:54:53 PM »
Irish coffee's should be banned.  Also mixing Gatorade with anything should be banned.  In fact, any product that could potentially be abused, should be banned.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 05:48:19 PM »
So, like, everything?

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2011, 05:49:02 PM »
Irish coffee's should be banned.  Also mixing Gatorade with anything should be banned.  In fact, any product that could potentially be abused, should be banned.

I think all physical objects should be banned.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: FDA brings the hammer down on caffeinated alcohol
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2011, 06:33:06 PM »
There was lots of sarcasm in my post.  I hope that came across lol
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