All Star Trek Discussion Thread ("Into Darkness" trailer released)

[Adami]

I still wish I understood why so many people like the new Star Trek.  I thought it was painfully bad.

It wasn't painfully bad.

It had mostly good performances (few I didn't care for), great visuals, amazing opening sequence, believable villain (for the most part anyway), a decent script dialogue wise, a sexy green chick and ...........well............it was well directed? I dunno. It's harder to defend than I thought it would be.

[ACID_FOX]

People talk about the new film as if the original source material is Shakespeare.

[ReaPsTA]

People talk about the new film as if the original source material is Shakespeare.

For all of Star Trek's many flaws, it could be legitimately brilliant at times.  When people think of Captain Kirk, they usually remember the sleeping with alien women and hammy attitude, not the commanding officer who won a submarine battle in space against a Romulan warship and honorably offered mercy to his opponents.

It had mostly good performances (few I didn't care for), great visuals, amazing opening sequence, believable villain (for the most part anyway), a decent script dialogue wise, a sexy green chick and ...........well............it was well directed? I dunno. It's harder to defend than I thought it would be.

 - I thought Chris Pine's Kirk got the character completely wrong.  He took Shatner's cocksureness and turned it into pure unlikable cockiness.  He took an interest in women and turned it into being a college aged horndog.  And he did this without any of the gravitas of Shatner.  If you're anywhere and Shatner walks into the room, he'll own it if he wants to.  He brought that quality to Kirk in a huge way.  Pine has none it.  Simon Pegg took away all of Scottie's dignity and emphasized the jokiness.  John Cho made Sulu into Harold.  I don't even know how to articulate in words how they messed Spock up.  Uhura was good but basically a different character.  At least they got McCoy and Chekov right.

 - For what they were, they were very well executed.  But why did the phasers look like blasters from Star Wars?  Why did the engine room look like a brewery?  Why did the federation transport ships to the academy remind me of the drop ships from Starship Troopers?  So much generic and cheesy design work in that movie.

 - The opening sequence was bad bad bad.  It wanted you to feel so much and did so little to earn it.

 - I guess Nero was believable.  Good?  Eh.  Bald creepy guy with tattoos.  Why should I care?

 - I've repressed all memories of the movie's dialog because I don't want it to haunt my nightmares.

 - The green chick wasn't even that sexy.

 - The directing was well executed, and given the script and what the studio wanted to accomplish I'd say JJ Abrams did what he was supposed to do.  But are you really gonna call it good?

[Adami]

I'd call the directing good, not brilliant but good. The writing........eh.


And as far as Kirk goes, I thought he did ok. You have to remember that Pine Kirk grew up without a father, which completely changed the essence of the character. I do agree though that Syler did an awful............awful spock. People seem to love his Spock because I guess he looked a great deal like him, which he did, but he was pretty much just Sylar with pointy ears. I also agree with Scotty, it seems they just wanted a big sci-fi comedy name like Pegg, but he was hardly Scotty at all.

The opening sequence was good, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

The ship designs were fine, I don't care if a transport ship isn't the most innovative design ever, it's a transport ship.

Nero was more believable if you had read the comic prequel, which helped flesh his character out (and Spock's reaction to him).

I'd bang the green chick.

[Super Dude]

I'd bang her.

[El Barto]

For all of Star Trek's many flaws, it could be legitimately brilliant at times.  When people think of Captain Kirk, they usually remember the sleeping with alien women and hammy attitude, not the commanding officer who won a submarine battle in space against a Romulan warship and honorably offered mercy to his opponents.

- I thought Chris Pine's Kirk got the character completely wrong.  He took Shatner's cocksureness and turned it into pure unlikable cockiness.  He took an interest in women and turned it into being a college aged horndog.  And he did this without any of the gravitas of Shatner.  If you're anywhere and Shatner walks into the room, he'll own it if he wants to.  He brought that quality to Kirk in a huge way.  Pine has none it.  

This is an excellent assessment of both Kirks.  Way to go.  

Adami makes an interesting point about him.  The problem is that we have no idea what role George Kirk played to the Shatner Kirk.  Shatner's might have been fatherless, as well.  All we know are that there are potential differences in the two because of the different timelines.  What seems important to me is that Pine's Kirk is a few years younger than Shatner's.  I can't for the life of me imagine Shatner's Kirk every being the Jackass that Pine's is.  However,  I can definitely see Pine's becoming the genuine badass that Reap describes.

Sadly,  don't think that theory will save Quinto's Spock.  We actually got our fair share of emotional and occasionally violent Spock in TOS, and he was just a completely different thing altogether from Quinto's.  That said,  I'll be interested in seeing how he works with the next movie, where presumably they'll both be a bit older.  They should be working the K/S/M dynamic at that point, and Quinto might blend in better.

Mostly agree with Reap about the other points.  Horrible intro.  Scotty and Sulu were caricaturized.  Would fuck the green bitch,  but I wouldn't have gone very far out of my way for it.  Didn't like Nero, or the entire story for that matter.  

[Adami]

Just a small point but Shatners kirk wasn't fatherless. Old Spock (in the new movie) pointed out that Kirks father was very influential on him and was one of the main reasons he joined starfleet. However Pine never had that guiding beacon of morality, because his father flew the ship into the romulan/borg thing and ended up Odins son.

[El Barto]

Fair enough.  I was trying to think of any TOS reference.  I found the story of the new movie so tiresome that I wouldn't remember if Old Spock told him they used to be lovers.

[Adami]

Fair enough.  I was trying to think of any TOS reference.  I found the story of the new movie so tiresome that I wouldn't remember if Old Spock told him they used to be lovers.

..............he did. Of course he was referring to himself and Scotty. What do you think was about to "blow" all those times?



Yea.

[BlobVanDam]

There were things I liked about the new Trek movie, and things I hated. The plot was stupid, and most of the characters were wasted entirely. But I think the casting was pretty good, and the style was good. When I came out of the cinema after seeing it, I was disappointed, yet still excited for the next one, if that makes sense.

[MetalJunkie]

and ended up Odins son.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I think it was very good.  The basis for my opinion is the comparison to the last 5 movies in the series.  This was WAY better than those....hence, the props.

[Adami]

I think it was very good.  The basis for my opinion is the comparison to the last 5 movies in the series.  This was WAY better than those....hence, the props.

First Contact was way better.


And while Insurrection was boring as all hell, at least it made internal sense.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I think it was very good.  The basis for my opinion is the comparison to the last 5 movies in the series.  This was WAY better than those....hence, the props.

First Contact was way better.


And while Insurrection was boring as all hell, at least it made internal sense.

I liked the Borg part of first contact, but the Cochrane part bored the piss out of me.

[Adami]

I think it was very good.  The basis for my opinion is the comparison to the last 5 movies in the series.  This was WAY better than those....hence, the props.

First Contact was way better.


And while Insurrection was boring as all hell, at least it made internal sense.

I liked the Borg part of first contact, but the Cochrane part bored the piss out of me.

Ohhh so you prefer just straight action non stop stuff. Gotcha.

[BlobVanDam]

First Contact was awesome. I watched Insurrection only yesterday, and I still like it. It's not great, but it's good. I enjoy parts of Generations, but that's a bad movie. And Nemesis is bad. Not that much competition aside from First Contact.

[Adami]

I think one of the problems with Trek XI is that it at no point takes its time to do anything. The older sci fi movies usually took their time to develop, while the new ones are just throwing everything at you as quickly as possible so that you don't at any point have a minute to reflect on what just happened.


Dear Movies............take your time, it's ok.

[BlobVanDam]

The best example of that is the pointless beast chase when Kirk lands on that icy moon/planet. It was action for the sake of action, and perhaps to quicken the contrivance of Kirk meeting Old Spock.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Ohhh so you prefer just straight action non stop stuff. Gotcha.

Not at all....  Just thought those segments were stiff, poorly written, and quite boring...  I'm a TNG guy 100%...but I think the TNG movies really sucked compared to ST I - IV and The New one.

[Adami]

The best example of that is the pointless beast chase when Kirk lands on that icy moon/planet. It was action for the sake of action, and perhaps to quicken the contrivance of Kirk meeting Old Spock.

Good example, as is well...........the rest of the movie haha. The only time it slows down is to make a bad joke.

[AndyDT]

Didn't know about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjQJKfG_p2o&feature=related

[abydos]

Star Trek: ENT was amazing and the larping nerds who complained about canon and shit, giving it low ratings and whatnot can all suck it.
That is all

[El Barto]

Didn't know about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjQJKfG_p2o&feature=related

Hadn't heard of it either.  Might check it out someday, but watching the video would blow it.  Apparently,  there's also a Star Trek: Klingon.

[Cable]

I am sure this has been mentioned, but I am enjoying the recently released streaming catalog of most ST stuff on Netflix.

I will also lobby an insult towards the ST-XI (not sure if discussed, not looking at entire thread). I know it is hard to keep up with the canon, and I understand why they made an alternate timeline, as it was clever. I appreciate the freshness of the approach, as an outside take was needed greatly from the Berman/Brag collective

My issue is with the producers (or JJ Abrams') apparent obsession with ST2: The Wrath of Khan. I understand the greatness of the movie. Already, we have had Kobayashi Maru situation, and actually a big chunk was devoted to that if I recall. And I would bet money that Khan will be in the next film (or two). My issues are ST2 was basically the most popular movie, or most beloved out of the films. And they are ripping stories from that potentially for many movies. Yet there are PLENTY of better villains/races IMO, and also PLENTY of other story lines in the canon to adapt from. I do not get the feeling from the X-men film franchise that they are citing one story only primarily.

ST2 is like the Final Fantasy VII of the franchise. Many place it as the greatest, but many who do have really not ventured far outside of that one title much at all. And that is really a shame, because there are so many more as good (if not debatable better) story lines in the franchise, or games in the case of FFVII. Khan as the greatest villain? He was in one episode, and one movie, right?

[BlobVanDam]

Ricardo Montalban only needed one episode and one movie. Even in TOS, he had such a commanding stage presence unlike any other, which elevated him well above other villians. His performance took an interesting episode, and brought it to a whole other level that few other episodes achieved.

And what other individual villian can rival him? A whale probe? Nero-feratu? I-can't-believe-it's-not-Picard? The guys addicted to plastic surgery? The greatness of the character came down to Montalban's performance, and he sold it brilliantly.

[YtseJam]

I watched the new star trek movie again last night. If you can't enjoy it for what it is then you probably hate everything. It was definitely good in comparisson to most new releases. It had it's elemt of cheese but keep in mind this is an entire new generation (why) in which they are also trying to turn onto Star Trek. If you compare how they did this to Superman Returns (which had more cheese but wasn't bad) or Star Wars (which should be the one to get a reboot) it's still a good flick.

[ReaPsTA]

I watched the new star trek movie again last night. If you can't enjoy it for what it is then you probably hate everything. It was definitely good in comparisson to most new releases. It had it's elemt of cheese but keep in mind this is an entire new generation (why) in which they are also trying to turn onto Star Trek. If you compare how they did this to Superman Returns (which had more cheese but wasn't bad) or Star Wars (which should be the one to get a reboot) it's still a good flick.

I guess I do hate everything.  Thanks for telling me, I never would have known without your wisdom.

[YtseJam]

Glad I could help

[El Barto]

I think they've rather definitively ruled out Khan in the new venture.  There was a list of five potential villains, but I don't recall all of them.  I think Gary Mitchell and Trelane were two of them. 

Also looks like Paramount is insisting that they shoot this one in 3d.  Oh joy. 

[Kotowboy]

No.

It Wasn't.

You're thinking of " The Phantom Menace ".

New Star Trek was "Painfully Bad".

[slycordinator]

Also looks like Paramount is insisting that they shoot this one in 3d.  Oh joy. 

1) I'd much prefer them put their foot down now than after all the shots are wrapped up, guaranteeing it to be a conversion...
2) You'll still be able to see it in 2D. Most theaters that have a 3D print will also have it available in 2D.

[El Barto]

Also looks like Paramount is insisting that they shoot this one in 3d.  Oh joy. 

1) I'd much prefer them put their foot down now than after all the shots are wrapped up, guaranteeing it to be a conversion...
2) You'll still be able to see it in 2D. Most theaters that have a 3D print will also have it available in 2D.

For one thing,  I won't see it in the theater anyway.  More important, my concern is that they'll naturally be inclined to focus on gee-wiz eyecandy than actual writing, character development, plot, etc.

Personally,  I like some good space battle action,  but the modern version of it really sucks.  Writing them to intentionally utilize 3D will make it even worth.  Modern action sequences are completely devoid of plot or suspense.  You never care who's chasing who, or who's shooting at what.  You watch the action,  appreciate the explosions and then move on with however the story plays out afterward.  Spend five minutes drawing one of those out for Christ sakes.  Reliant's surprise attack on Enterprise was infinitely better than any battle in XI.  The Mutara nebula more so.  Suspense has been replaced with chaos nowadays, and frankly it sucks. 

[Super Dude]

Also looks like Paramount is insisting that they shoot this one in 3d.  Oh joy. 

1) I'd much prefer them put their foot down now than after all the shots are wrapped up, guaranteeing it to be a conversion...
2) You'll still be able to see it in 2D. Most theaters that have a 3D print will also have it available in 2D.

For one thing,  I won't see it in the theater anyway.  More important, my concern is that they'll naturally be inclined to focus on gee-wiz eyecandy than actual writing, character development, plot, etc.

Personally,  I like some good space battle action,  but the modern version of it really sucks.  Writing them to intentionally utilize 3D will make it even worth.  Modern action sequences are completely devoid of plot or suspense.  You never care who's chasing who, or who's shooting at what.  You watch the action,  appreciate the explosions and then move on with however the story plays out afterward.  Spend five minutes drawing one of those out for Christ sakes.  Reliant's surprise attack on Enterprise was infinitely better than any battle in XI.  The Mutara nebula more so.  Suspense has been replaced with chaos nowadays, and frankly it sucks. 

Hear hear!

[hefdaddy42]

Personally,  I like some good space battle action,  but the modern version of it really sucks.  Writing them to intentionally utilize 3D will make it even worth. 

I never notithd you typing with a lithp before.

[El Barto]

Personally,  I like some good space battle action,  but the modern version of it really sucks.  Writing them to intentionally utilize 3D will make it even worth. 

I never notithd you typing with a lithp before.

Damn,  I had to read that three times before I saw WTF you were talking about.  I gueth I read with one, too.