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The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

Started by Perpetual Change, December 13, 2010, 05:48:35 AM

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Volante99

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 15, 2019, 03:28:54 PM
Absolutely James did that.  That was a year removed. We are still hearing Mike take jabs 8 years later.

That's why people lose it. He still is stoking flames.

And that's totally fair. I only bring it up in response to some who say there's never been any negativity on the DT side or they've all been angelic since day one. Relative to Portnoy? Yes, absolutely. But I think JLB got some satisfaction in twisting the knife just a bit in those early days, albeit in a less obvious, smarter, more political way.

King Postwhore

There is definitely something between those 2. 

Well I heard the new SOA song. Good, not mindblowing.   Only one spin though.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Adami

Put it on for a second listen.

Fell asleep. Might've been unrelated but still.

MoraWintersoul

James did what? The most antagonistic bit in any of the big interviews that year was this one, when he responds to being called "the undisputed frontman of Dream Theater": "we, the guys in the band, we were talking about that everything is much more balanced, everybody is in their role or in their position. So it's where things should be on stage, where it's not somebody in the background trying to grab the limelight when maybe they should just be grooving or whatever. But I mean, that's just Mike's character, that's just his personality. He's big and he wants to be in the limelight. But unfortunately the problem with that is that it takes away from the bigger picture – and that is the band as a unit. And a lot of people have been commenting on that since we started out on this tour, saying ,,it feels more like I'm watching a band, with somebody up front singing and interacting, everybody else just back there and (makes drumming and guitar playing gestures). Everyone kind of assumes what they're doing. And then there's always moments in the night when there is the spotlight on these other members and it should be. But it creates more a balance. And we were talking about this, we were saying ,,you know, this is really cool" – it feels like a unit. So it's a lot better."

It's the only time* he's comparing a specific aspect of DT before and DT now and saying categorically that something about DT now is better and that there was a problem with something before, and explaining why that is. He wasn't calling MP annoying, liking comments that say MP sucks, saying that he had a bad personal relationship with him, saying that there was a time when he wanted MP to be replaces, and all that. So no, it doesn't compare.

*I can do a more comprehensive media analysis over the weekend, if anyone wants to see that.

Adami


Madman Shepherd

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on November 15, 2019, 04:19:18 PM
James did what? The most antagonistic bit in any of the big interviews that year was this one, when he responds to being called "the undisputed frontman of Dream Theater": "we, the guys in the band, we were talking about that everything is much more balanced, everybody is in their role or in their position. So it's where things should be on stage, where it's not somebody in the background trying to grab the limelight when maybe they should just be grooving or whatever. But I mean, that's just Mike's character, that's just his personality. He's big and he wants to be in the limelight. But unfortunately the problem with that is that it takes away from the bigger picture – and that is the band as a unit. And a lot of people have been commenting on that since we started out on this tour, saying ,,it feels more like I'm watching a band, with somebody up front singing and interacting, everybody else just back there and (makes drumming and guitar playing gestures). Everyone kind of assumes what they're doing. And then there's always moments in the night when there is the spotlight on these other members and it should be. But it creates more a balance. And we were talking about this, we were saying ,,you know, this is really cool" – it feels like a unit. So it's a lot better."

It's the only time* he's comparing a specific aspect of DT before and DT now and saying categorically that something about DT now is better and that there was a problem with something before, and explaining why that is. He wasn't calling MP annoying, liking comments that say MP sucks, saying that he had a bad personal relationship with him, saying that there was a time when he wanted MP to be replaces, and all that. So no, it doesn't compare.

*I can do a more comprehensive media analysis over the weekend, if anyone wants to see that.

Exactly! I'm tired of people saying, "Well James did it too!" which in anyone's wildest imagination was nowhere equal to the shots Portnoy took...and took...and took.

JLB: The band is much more balanced now
*MP goes on a facebook "liking" spree of comments saying James sucks*


Some weird fans opinion: "Dear god, JLB is just as bad, if not WORSE than Mike. For shame! How dare!"

King Postwhore

Here's the difference.   James apologized saying it was taken out of context.   I remember it distinctly.  Never said another bad word so it was a blip compared to MP and the apology lessens what he said. 

It's ok to admit there were issues between the 2.  99% on Mike's side.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Madman Shepherd

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 15, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
Here's the difference.   James apologized saying it was taken out of context.   I remember it distinctly.  Never said another bad word so it was a blip compared to MP and the apology lessens what he said. 

It's ok to admit there were issues between the 2.  99% on Mike's side.

James has also spoken highly of Mike's time in the band and shared some funny anecdotes. I think Mike hasn't even referred to James by name since the split either referring to him as "the singer" or "the Canadian"

King Postwhore

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Volante99

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on November 15, 2019, 04:19:18 PM
James did what? The most antagonistic bit in any of the big interviews that year was this one, when he responds to being called "the undisputed frontman of Dream Theater": "we, the guys in the band, we were talking about that everything is much more balanced, everybody is in their role or in their position. So it's where things should be on stage, where it's not somebody in the background trying to grab the limelight when maybe they should just be grooving or whatever. But I mean, that's just Mike's character, that's just his personality. He's big and he wants to be in the limelight. But unfortunately the problem with that is that it takes away from the bigger picture – and that is the band as a unit. And a lot of people have been commenting on that since we started out on this tour, saying ,,it feels more like I'm watching a band, with somebody up front singing and interacting, everybody else just back there and (makes drumming and guitar playing gestures). Everyone kind of assumes what they're doing. And then there's always moments in the night when there is the spotlight on these other members and it should be. But it creates more a balance. And we were talking about this, we were saying ,,you know, this is really cool" – it feels like a unit. So it's a lot better."

It's the only time* he's comparing a specific aspect of DT before and DT now and saying categorically that something about DT now is better and that there was a problem with something before, and explaining why that is. He wasn't calling MP annoying, liking comments that say MP sucks, saying that he had a bad personal relationship with him, saying that there was a time when he wanted MP to be replaces, and all that. So no, it doesn't compare.

*I can do a more comprehensive media analysis over the weekend, if anyone wants to see that.

That's not true; here is an interview from 2011 with Full Metal Jackie referencing the writing process of ADoTE

"So, we knew right away that we wanted to make it a unified venture from this moment on so that it wasn't one person calling the shots; it wasn't one person taking the responsibilities of the band because that just tends to kind of leave you out in the dark and there can be too many moments that can be somewhat surprising to you. "Oh, I didn't know we were doing that or I didn't know that, that was going on or how did this come about." So knew that we never wanted to be, maybe, in that situation ever again."

Not exactly antagonistic but definitely comparing new DT to old DT. We know who he is talking about.

And I wouldn't say it's necessary for you to spend your weekend doing complete "media analysis" on James LaBrie 2011-2013. I 100% agree with you that his comments aren't anywhere in the same league of negativity as Portnoy. I repeat, I want to make it clear that I don't think JLB "did it" too or stooped to the same level as Portnoy. I'm sure I could find some other instances of indirect digs but I don't really feel like spending my Friday looking for almost decades old articles  :P This was purely my perception at the time, and I concede my perceptions could have been wrong.




bill1971

Quote from: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 04:42:57 PM
Quote from: kingshmegland on November 15, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
Here's the difference.   James apologized saying it was taken out of context.   I remember it distinctly.  Never said another bad word so it was a blip compared to MP and the apology lessens what he said. 

It's ok to admit there were issues between the 2.  99% on Mike's side.

James has also spoken highly of Mike's time in the band and shared some funny anecdotes. I think Mike hasn't even referred to James by name since the split either referring to him as "the singer" or "the Canadian"

I don't think he ever mentioned Mangini by name either, other than the new drummer.

Volante99

Something I don't understand during that period when Portnoy split, and the fact that the lineup change moved so quickly (and Portnoy wanted back in) who owns the DT brand? It seems like Portnoy would have had to sell his financial stake to the remaining members (partners)? So it's odd to me he went through that only to backtrack. Or perhaps there's something in the contracts that say once you say you're out, then you are OUT. Since Portnoy has writing credits does he still have participation in publishing of the old music?

An example of this is Dave Ellefson, who owned part of the Megadeth "brand" prior to leaving the group and now is a salaried employee since he rejoined.

Maybe not an appropriate question but the business side of bands have always been fascinating to me, especially when it comes to lineup changes amongst "OG" founding members and the line between " "owner" and employee.

KevShmev

Quote from: bill1971 on November 15, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Quote from: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 04:42:57 PM
Quote from: kingshmegland on November 15, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
Here's the difference.   James apologized saying it was taken out of context.   I remember it distinctly.  Never said another bad word so it was a blip compared to MP and the apology lessens what he said. 

It's ok to admit there were issues between the 2.  99% on Mike's side.

James has also spoken highly of Mike's time in the band and shared some funny anecdotes. I think Mike hasn't even referred to James by name since the split either referring to him as "the singer" or "the Canadian"

I don't think he ever mentioned Mangini by name either, other than the new drummer.

And let's not forget a few years when he listed the best bass players he has had the fortune to play with and listed nearly all of them, with John Myung being the most obvious glaring one missing.  :lol :lol

gzarruk

Quote from: bill1971 on November 15, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Quote from: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 04:42:57 PM
Quote from: kingshmegland on November 15, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
Here's the difference.   James apologized saying it was taken out of context.   I remember it distinctly.  Never said another bad word so it was a blip compared to MP and the apology lessens what he said. 

It's ok to admit there were issues between the 2.  99% on Mike's side.

James has also spoken highly of Mike's time in the band and shared some funny anecdotes. I think Mike hasn't even referred to James by name since the split either referring to him as "the singer" or "the Canadian"

I don't think he ever mentioned Mangini by name either, other than the new drummer.

I remember this too. I read an MP interview where he was talking about DT and "their drummer". Again, that's not "bad" by itself, but MP and MM were friends for DECADES and Mangini always talked about Portnoy being a friend and wonderful drummer since he joined DT, so it definitely feels weird/suspicious when MP just refers to him as "their drummer".

I have to add that there's a track record of similar things happening and, while we definitely don't know all that happened behind the scenes, what has been said publicly (which is what we CAN discuss) doesn't make MP look too classy.

DarkLord_Lalinc

I think it goes without saying, without trying to sound too negative on MP and not make Volante think this place is full of MP haters ( :lol), that all five members of DT have been more intelligent and overall classier than MP in social media and interviews overall regarding the split.

I remember clearly the James thing, and I cannot imagine first of all how it was taken out of context and how that might've upset some people. As much as I loved the MP-era DT, the scales felt (to me, at least) pretty uneven back then with MP being the one to call the shots in so many things. It's easily arguable that that's not always a bad thing and that the rest of the guys were on board with the way things were handled back then, but when James said that things were much balanced back then it's basically a statement of the band feeling more like a band and not have one dominant personality calling most of the shots regarding so many things. That's not a bad thing to say by any means nor it's disrespectful to MP in any way, as far as I see it. DT functioned under MP's direction, and when he left the band found a way to keep things going and that's it. MP, on the other hand, as honest and transparent as he's always tried to be with the media and his fans, has said and done plenty to upset his fanbase. This ongoing conversation is proof of that. I'm sure he's meant no harm whatsoever, but that's the way things are I guess.

True, the MP-DT era gave us so many wonderful things like the official bootlegs, the varied setlists, the documentaries, etc. I'll remember those years and things so dearly and with so much nostalgia, but definitely something about DT these days feels healthier. They all seem so in tune with everything that's going on that I can't help but think that MP was a time bomb. If for any means the split wouldn't have happened in 2010, I think it would've eventually happened.

MirrorMask

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 15, 2019, 09:40:01 PM
If for any means the split wouldn't have happened in 2010, I think it would've eventually happened.

Yeah, one of those "alternate history" scenarios for DT would surely contemplate this. "What if Jordan Rudess joined immediately in 1995", "What if they were allowed to do FII as a double album"... "What if MP would have capitulated and would have been talked into sticking with the band and do the 2011 album as originally planned" is surely another intriguing question, considering what could have happened afterwards.

Zook

Quote from: MirrorMask on November 16, 2019, 01:52:05 AM
Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 15, 2019, 09:40:01 PM
If for any means the split wouldn't have happened in 2010, I think it would've eventually happened.

Yeah, one of those "alternate history" scenarios for DT would surely contemplate this. "What if Jordan Rudess joined immediately in 1995", "What if they were allowed to do FII as a double album"... "What if MP would have capitulated and would have been talked into sticking with the band and do the 2011 album as originally planned" is surely another intriguing question, considering what could have happened afterwards.

Not that I think OTBOA is Grammy worthy, but they wouldn't have even been nominated if MP was still in the band, based on the direction he was steering them.


You know there would have been a song with Portnoy "growling" the whole time.

MoraWintersoul

Quote from: Volante99 on November 15, 2019, 04:53:48 PM
This was purely my perception at the time, and I concede my perceptions could have been wrong.
I don't think we're on the same page here and that's fine. I just don't see any of that as an indirect dig, more of an explanation what was going on before Mike left, that doesn't pass a character judgment on Mike in any way, Mike talked much worse about his own control freak tendencies. I also don't see MP's explanations of how he felt boxed in and how he feels much freer now as a dig, because that doesn't imply DT guys are boring and controlling and boxed in - it's just an explanation and the truth of what was happening. I apologize if I came off too strongly in my post towards you, wasn't my intention.  :heart

Stadler

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 15, 2019, 09:40:01 PM
I think it goes without saying, without trying to sound too negative on MP and not make Volante think this place is full of MP haters ( :lol), that all five members of DT have been more intelligent and overall classier than MP in social media and interviews overall regarding the split.

Take it for what it's worth - i.e. nothing, one man's opinion (who disagrees with you) - but you can SAY you're not trying to be all negative on MP, but it comes through pretty clear.  Now we're questioning his INTELLIGENCE because he didn't react the way you think he should have?  C'mon.   

The Walrus

Methinks the word they were looking for is 'tactful.'

Stadler

Quote from: Kattelox on November 16, 2019, 08:16:23 AM
Methinks the word they were looking for is 'tactful.'

Maybe, but he said "intelligent".   We're criticizing Mike for not watching his words carefully enough, but saying whatever comes to mind? I know, I know, celebrity, Twitter, yada yada, but since we're parsing every word and expression that Mike says (and attributing a speculative take at what he meant) I'm not really out of line in taking his words at face value, I don't think.   

Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".   

The Walrus

Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:23:45 AM
Quote from: Kattelox on November 16, 2019, 08:16:23 AM
Methinks the word they were looking for is 'tactful.'

Maybe, but he said "intelligent".   We're criticizing Mike for not watching his words carefully enough, but saying whatever comes to mind? I know, I know, celebrity, Twitter, yada yada, but since we're parsing every word and expression that Mike says (and attributing a speculative take at what he meant) I'm not really out of line in taking his words at face value, I don't think.   

Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".

Not disagreeing at all. Just saying that's probably what he meant. The irony is not lost on me.

KevShmev

Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:23:45 AM


Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".

I know, right?  It is disappointing that no one in Dream Theater picked up the slack in certain areas like taking passive-aggressive swipes at their own lead singer and writing lyrics that criticize their own fans.

Volante99

Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2019, 08:27:58 AM
Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:23:45 AM


Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".

I know, right?  It is disappointing that no one in Dream Theater picked up the slack in certain areas like taking passive-aggressive swipes at their own lead singer and writing lyrics that criticize their own fans.

Haha Touché.

Honestly, I wasn't a fan of until about 2005 so I feel like I missed a lot of the cool fan stuff. And as a guitarist I'm pretty okay with Petrucci being the new mover and shaker of the band. I've gotten over the fact that I'm just not a big fan of Mangini (at least not his playing in this band, I thought he was solid, if unremarkable in Annihilator and Extreme). At this point, as a fan, the only thing I miss is the band's ability to create a decent hi fi, quality produced, mixed and mastered, good SOUNDING record. For whatever reason, that seems to be a skill that Portnoy took with him.

DTA

Quote from: Volante99 on November 16, 2019, 10:56:07 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2019, 08:27:58 AM
Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:23:45 AM


Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".

I know, right?  It is disappointing that no one in Dream Theater picked up the slack in certain areas like taking passive-aggressive swipes at their own lead singer and writing lyrics that criticize their own fans.

Haha Touché.

Honestly, I wasn't a fan of until about 2005 so I feel like I missed a lot of the cool fan stuff. And as a guitarist I'm pretty okay with Petrucci being the new mover and shaker of the band. I've gotten over the fact that I'm just not a big fan of Mangini (at least not his playing in this band, I thought he was solid, if unremarkable in Annihilator and Extreme). At this point, as a fan, the only thing I miss is the band's ability to create a decent hi fi, quality produced, mixed and mastered, good SOUNDING record. For whatever reason, that seems to be a skill that Portnoy took with him.

I think SC and BC&SL sound awful in a completely different way. Overly compressed with an overbearing drum sound and low keys. So I wouldn't say MP had any sort of producer's magic touch other than making sure his instrument was in the forefront. The Mangini albums sound pretty weird but at least there's balance and cohesion between the instruments (except the drums on ADToE).

Stadler

Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2019, 08:27:58 AM
Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:23:45 AM


Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".

I know, right?  It is disappointing that no one in Dream Theater picked up the slack in certain areas like taking passive-aggressive swipes at their own lead singer and writing lyrics that criticize their own fans.

Look, you either have an interest in being fair or you don't.  We've got pages and pages on the so-called passive-aggressiveness.  The band DID say this in specific response to questions about the rotating setlists, the special sets, the repeated QA's, the at-the-time vibrant personal website, the Ytsejam stuff, the behind the scenes stuff, the DVD bonus features, etc. etc.   Snark all you want, only a small fraction of this was (or is being) done. 

I clearly said it wasn't definitive, but it was a point that had to be acknowledged. 

Volante99

#1426
Quote from: DTA on November 16, 2019, 01:38:44 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 16, 2019, 10:56:07 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2019, 08:27:58 AM
Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:23:45 AM


Oh, and while I'm not at all suggesting that it's "equal", it's only fair to mention the "we're going to pick up the slack and do all the things Mike did" comments, that provably did not happen.  Doesn't change the actions of any one person, but I know for me, the changes were enough to drop DT from "one of the elite" in my "favorite bands" list to just "one of my favorites".

I know, right?  It is disappointing that no one in Dream Theater picked up the slack in certain areas like taking passive-aggressive swipes at their own lead singer and writing lyrics that criticize their own fans.

Haha Touché.

Honestly, I wasn't a fan of until about 2005 so I feel like I missed a lot of the cool fan stuff. And as a guitarist I'm pretty okay with Petrucci being the new mover and shaker of the band. I've gotten over the fact that I'm just not a big fan of Mangini (at least not his playing in this band, I thought he was solid, if unremarkable in Annihilator and Extreme). At this point, as a fan, the only thing I miss is the band's ability to create a decent hi fi, quality produced, mixed and mastered, good SOUNDING record. For whatever reason, that seems to be a skill that Portnoy took with him.

I think SC and BC&SL sound awful in a completely different way. Overly compressed with an overbearing drum sound and low keys. So I wouldn't say MP had any sort of producer's magic touch other than making sure his instrument was in the forefront. The Mangini albums sound pretty weird but at least there's balance and cohesion between the instruments (except the drums on ADToE).

Agree to disagree.

It's true DT has always been hit or miss when it comes to production, but they've been on a pretty bad streak lately, IMO. SC and BC&SL are not good but I've never had a huge problem with them besides Portnoy's kick drum being the loudest instrument on those albums  :P.

If we're talking compression; yes they are compressed but D/T is easily the worst offender of their career (although I still need to listen to the blu-ray version which, apparently, isn't brickwalled to hell). DT12 is right up there as well on the compression level. All four Mangini releases have some serious issues that distract me from the listening experience. The Astonishing is the only album that is up to snuff. Unfortunately the sound quality is about the only thing I like about that album.

But I concede this is all subjective, and with the exception of what I feel like has been a pretty awful drum sound the past 4 albums, there's nothing about the production on these albums that I can TOTALLY attribute to Portnoy's absence.


KevShmev

DT has had issues with how their albums sounded as far back as 1999 (Scenes sounds mostly great, but there are at times where it could have sounded better), so it's not like their issues with sound was a new thing that kicked in post-2010.  Note that I am talking the overall sound, not the drum sound.  DT has definitely been a victim of the loudness wars, as have many other great bands. Heck, Rush's last few albums had major sound issues as well (relative to their albums in the 70's, 80's and 90's).

Quote from: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 02:53:15 PM
Look, you either have an interest in being fair or you don't.  We've got pages and pages on the so-called passive-aggressiveness.  The band DID say this in specific response to questions about the rotating setlists, the special sets, the repeated QA's, the at-the-time vibrant personal website, the Ytsejam stuff, the behind the scenes stuff, the DVD bonus features, etc. etc.   Snark all you want, only a small fraction of this was (or is being) done. 

I clearly said it wasn't definitive, but it was a point that had to be acknowledged.

I would imagine that it is clear that the band doesn't think certain things are necessary, which is why they aren't being done anymore.  Rotating set lists is a good example, as they have made it clear that a mostly static set list is their current preference lately, so they are going that route. As for special sets, no, they don't bust one random special set in the middle of a tour, but have smartly chucked the cover sets, and they have done a great job overall with the set lists in the Mangini era, from finally playing Space Dye Vest every night for an entire tour (as opposed to just one night, which you know would have been the case had it been played when Portnoy was in the band), to playing Don't Look Past Me (a big time obscure demo) at a dozen shows or so, to doing various anniversary sets for entire tours (all of Images and Words, all of Scenes, doing a chronological set featuring a song from every album), etc. I could go on and on, but I know, I know, every time it is pointed out the many great things the band has done this decade, a Portnoy fan always points to something they haven't.  "Great, they have done a-x, but what about y and z??"

Don't get me wrong, as good as 2011-2019 has been for the band in my estimation, I am in the camp of those who feel that DT will never equal or top their peak of 1992-2002, and I also prefer Portnoy as a drummer over Mangini.  Mangini's drumming might be better on a technical level, but it's a bit too stiff for me at times, and as I have said for years, as a professional air drummer :P, Portnoy's style, to me, is just more fun.  So, even though I think all four Mangini albums are better than the last three they did with Portnoy, I am not one of those "Portnoy bad/Mangini good" people.  This decade has just been a lot more fun as a fan than it was the last half decade with Portnoy.  Remember that outtake video we got with JLB and Petrucci?  We never would have gotten that in the 00's, because Portnoy had to dominate nearly every interview or promo with his overbearing personality, which got more and more grating over time.  I think most of us would agree that Dream Theater is either in the home stretch, or fast approaching it, and it's nice to see the band happy and the personalities of all of the members being allowed to shine and everyone just enjoying what they are doing now without any drama or any one member feeling like he has to always be the face of the band or the center of attention.

MoraWintersoul

#1428
Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2019, 04:28:59 PM
Don't get me wrong, as good as 2011-2019 has been for the band in my estimation, I am in the camp of those who feel that DT will never equal or top their peak of 1992-2002, and I also prefer Portnoy as a drummer over Mangini.  Mangini's drumming might be better on a technical level, but it's a bit too stiff for me at times, and as I have said for years, as a professional air drummer :P, Portnoy's style, to me, is just more fun.  So, even though I think all four Mangini albums are better than the last three they did with Portnoy, I am not one of those "Portnoy bad/Mangini good" people.  This decade has just been a lot more fun as a fan than it was the last half decade with Portnoy. 
I'm just gonna quote this next time we discuss anything related to Portnoy  :P

It's true that, under MP, there was a wide spectrum of things that were happening all the time - giving us the illusion that anything can happen - and these things just don't happen anymore. At the same time, it is clear now that there were some things that would have never happened under MP, like JM contributing more, JLB recording on his own in Canada, the band making setlists work for them instead of the other way around, the whole way they recorded D/T, and so on.

At some points, we were getting all of our official info on how DT was doing and what they were going through through MP, and as much as I loved him as DT's historian and advocate, we know he has his own perspective of things. I wish we would have gotten some things written or said by other guys over the years as well.

To close out with something I just thought of: as much I'd like for MP to think before he speaks sometimes, James and Mike have been friends for 25 years, and even though they likely haven't really talked in a while, as people in the know assure us, there's no big anger and major resentment hanging between them, just disagreements. James has talked to Mike in person thousands of times before, all these negative public statements fit into a tapestry of thousands of nice things Mike has told him over the years, the good things he's done for James, etc. The one who has really gotten the snub is Mike Mangini. Seriously, we went from the two of them being industry friends and MP mentioning MM's name as a good drummer and inviting him to play with DT, to MP only ever referring to him as "their drummer". I hope there's no bad feelings there.

KevShmev

To address just this...

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on November 16, 2019, 04:45:07 PM


It's true that, under MP, there was a wide spectrum of things that were happening all the time - giving us the illusion that anything can happen - and these things just don't happen anymore. 

I get it that some fans miss the aspect.  Heck, following the band's tours on the internet was more fun in the 00's than in the 10's because it was always like, "Okay, let's see what they played last night," as opposed to nowadays where once you see the set list and it is established what it is being rotated, if anything, you don't really have to check in again to see about any changes to the set list, but on the flip side, you get more consistency with the set lists nowadays.  For as much as some miss those special sets that popped up out of nowhere, there were more than a few times when I'd see a set list in the 00's and think, "Ugh, I am glad I wasn't at that show!"  :lol :lol  Long story short, in the 10's, if they bust out something special or different, you are probably gonna get it as long as you see them on that tour (or that leg, at the very least), Don't Look Past Me getting dropped after a dozen or so shows notwithstanding.  I will go back to Space Dye Vest.  Love it or hate it, that getting played was a live landmark event, and instead of it getting played at one show, it was played at every single show on that entire tour.  To quote one of our longtime members, that was especially special. ;)

Lethean

You know - I have to say that I really miss the setlists and the other cool things MP did.  There was never a show that left me disappointed when he was mixing it up.  (When I started to get disappointed was during the last few tours when he was mixing it up much much less.  I think people forget that - I forget it too, until just now when I was trying to recall being disappointed.)

There was a lot of excitement thinking that anything could be played on a given night, wondering if a Rush album would be the next one they covered in full, etc.  I have no problem saying I miss that and I appreciate very much that Mike did it in the first place.

I haven't forgotten those things.  But that doesn't prevent me from being disappointed when Mike makes his comments.  And I also can't deny that I'm enjoying DT a bit more these days than I was before he left.  There's something that's brought it up just a notch.  Maybe the lack of MP vocals - probably a big thing for me; maybe just that I like most of the new material better than some of the later MP stuff, maybe the connection the band seems to have with each other now.

I'd still love it if they decided to mix things up with the setlist again, but as much as I miss that, I really can't complain about it.  It's been pretty great being a DT fan lately.

Madman Shepherd

Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2019, 09:55:08 PM
  I will go back to Space Dye Vest.  Love it or hate it, that getting played was a live landmark event, and instead of it getting played at one show, it was played at every single show on that entire tour.  To quote one of our longtime members, that was especially special. ;)

People forget that it's actually a minority of people like us that look from day to day at what DT is doing. When they played Space Dye Vest, I knew it was coming. There was a dude next to me that was a pretty hardcore fan, singing along to everything, so I assumed he knew Space Dye Vest was coming. When they started playing it, he flipped out! He turned to me and said, "Oh my god, they've never played this! Are they seriously playing this?!" His entire night was made.

They didn't just play it at one show, they played it at every show and it was still a surprise to some, maybe the majority of people. That would not have happened had Portnoy still been in the band, either by not playing it at all, or deciding it would only be played in Lithuania or something.

MirrorMask

Well, same for me. I didn't check the setlist, I know all of Awake and basically the whole back catalogue inside out, and when it became apparent that they were playing the second half of Awake, I was dead sure they would stop with Scarred. Totally mindblown when I heard Space Dye Vest beginning. "Whaaaaaat? they're actually playing it??? whaaaa awesome!!!!"

Lethean

That was me too. :)  I also managed to be surprised by A Change of Seasons which was awesome. 

I don't think Space Dye Vest would have been played at just one show with MP, and I don't think the "only in Lithuania" thing is fair.  MP was against playing Space Dye Vest at all, but if he did somehow change his mind, it's quite likely that it would have been one of the songs played at every show.  If it wasn't, at the least it would have been played at multiple shows and you could have seen it by going to more than one.  Which I realize not everyone can (or even wants to), but just because some don't see a certain song, does that mean no one should?  I remember being bummed when they played The Necromancer and I wasn't there to see it, but I certainly don't wish they hadn't done it.  It was probably awesome for the people who were there (at least the Rush fans) and at least I can listen to a recording of it.

Madman Shepherd

Quote from: Lethean on November 17, 2019, 09:07:56 AM
That was me too. :)  I also managed to be surprised by A Change of Seasons which was awesome. 

I don't think Space Dye Vest would have been played at just one show with MP, and I don't think the "only in Lithuania" thing is fair.  MP was against playing Space Dye Vest at all, but if he did somehow change his mind, it's quite likely that it would have been one of the songs played at every show. 

Oh c'mon, this is the guy that decided they would only ever play Disappear once because he thought it would be cool if they had a song in their catalog they only ever played once. I think they did end up playing it a second time though but once was his original plan.  So either they would only play it once, because Kevin Moore finally agreed to make a cameo, or it would be Lithuania because that was the 22nd anniversary on the 22nd day of the 22nd hour or whatever gimmick he thought would be cool.

But more than likely they wouldn't ever play it with MP still in the band.