The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

Started by Perpetual Change, December 13, 2010, 04:48:35 AM

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The Walrus


cramx3

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
James can convey emotion. He can make you feel stuff. I don't think Russ Allen could match that. Sure, if you like Russ Allen, fine, but I just would not be able to connect to Dream Theater they way I have had it not been for James.

Agreed. Tastes and all but I can't see Russell Allen being the one to lift the band over what JLB did. Just my opinion. Maybe there is someone who would have made them bigger but I really doubt it. The music just isn't meant for the masses, no singer would have changed that.

Destiny Of Chaos

It's like they know it's time for an album cycle...time.to rev up the controversy

IDontNotDoThings

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
James can convey emotion. He can make you feel stuff. I don't think Russ Allen could match that.

The Sacrifice would like to have a word with you.

gzarruk

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
James can convey emotion. He can make you feel stuff. I don't think Russ Allen could match that. Sure, if you like Russ Allen, fine, but I just would not be able to connect to Dream Theater they way I have had it not been for James.

Well, Russ CAN convey great emotion when he wants to. Paradise Lost (the song) is one of my favorite songs with his vocals because of that very thing. Unfortunately, he seems to really be into the "tough guy vocals" mindset and he's been using that approach for most of the albums he's done in the past decade. Mike P seems to like that approach, as he did some stuff with AMOB and then recruited poor man's Russell for SOA (JSS).

However, I agree that Allen wouldn't be a very good fit for DT, as their most famous and loved material calls for that operatic approach Russ doesn't do really. Someone like Fabio Lione would be a much much better fit for DT imo.

Volante99

#1160
Meh, Portnoy is only human. It was a stupid thing to say but I think people come down on him pretty hard. In the past decade he's said maybe a handful of negative things about his former band. It's easy to say that DT has acted with perfect class in all this when they are the ones doing the world tours and getting charting albums using the b(r)and which Portnoy played a very large role in building a grass roots fan base for, meanwhile Portnoy is wallowing in super group hell on the cruise ship circuit. Regardless whether you think it was the right thing or deserved or not, the band burned him. Obviously there's bad personal feelings on Both sides.

So, again, stupid thing to say but I shudder to think of the things I've said that I regretted about former coworkers for example. You and i just have the luxury of not having a microphone/recording device on us at all times.

TAC

Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM
Regardless whether you think it was the right thing or deserved or not, the band burned him.


How on Earth has the band burned him?
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

gmillerdrake

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM
Regardless whether you think it was the right thing or deserved or not, the band burned him.


How on Earth has the band burned him?

They didn't. The idea that they did is crazy. And the suggestion that MP has only said a 'handful' of things this past decade is just as crazy. He said a handful of things in the first week after the split.

MP is where he is Playing the cruise ship circuit in super group hell directly because of his choices.

KevShmev

I get that many have said "I'd like Dream Theater more if they had a different singer," but so what?  You are not going to please everyone, and LaBrie, despite his live struggles over the years, has earned his rep as one of the best and most iconic rock singers in the prog/prog metal genre. 

And yeah, it is laughable to suggest that the band burned Mike Portnoy.  Not just laughable, but myopic and biased.  He left, they moved on. End of story.

King Postwhore

Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

I think most said that because they broke at a time where most hair metal bands had operatic singers with high voices.

Grunge was becoming popular so people were rebelling against that style of singing. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

bosk1

Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PMRegardless whether you think it was the right thing or deserved or not, the band burned him.

What a bizarre thing to say.  Even MP doesn't believe this.  That really isn't supported by, well, anything.

King Postwhore

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

KevShmev

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 11, 2019, 04:58:04 PM

I think most said that because they broke at a time where most hair metal bands had operatic singers with high voices.

Grunge was becoming popular so people were rebelling against that style of singing.

And yet here we are decades with James still doing well as the lead singer of the band, while most grunge bands sucked ass and had the shelf life of a carton of milk. :coolio :hat

King Postwhore

Every genre goes though the next generation fighting to make their own mark. The good bands play through generations. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Volante99

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM
Regardless whether you think it was the right thing or deserved or not, the band burned him.


How on Earth has the band burned him?

They basically called his bluff after the whole "I want a break situation" and before the ink was dry (less than 2 months by estimation) would not let him back in band. Now you can say he left first, they had a commitment with Mangini, Mike screwed himself, and that's fine. I agree they had ZERO obligation to work things out or let him back in. But, in my opinion, it's a bit cold to close the door on a 25 year relationship because a founding member (who we ALL know is hot headed) had a few week lapse in judgement. That, to me, is a cold burn.

Again, I want to be clear I'm not saying DT acted wrongly, it is what it is, and I'm sure, at the time it was a shitty situation for all involved. And it's true, Portnoy opened that can of worms, but it appears DT was VERY eager to drop him like a hot potato.

Zook

Russell Allen is my favorite singer and I don't think he'd fit in DT. He just has a different style. That being said, anyone judging his abilities based on Adrenaline Mob is being completely unfair to him.

King Postwhore

When one guy in the band pushes his agenda bands push back.  (Perry, DeYoung)

Even if they are the driving force a band is a team.  Sometimes the other just can't deal with that person anymore. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

DragonAttack

Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM

So, again, stupid thing to say but I shudder to think of the things I've said that I regretted about former coworkers for example. You and i just have the luxury of not having a microphone/recording device on us at all times.

But he knew he had a mic in front of him at that time, and chose to say what he said, and then sheepishly acted innocent.  I didn't hear a retraction or a 'oh, c'mon, man, I was just frickin' kidding' line that followed.  I'm not angry or up in arms or disappointed at what he said, and then did not say.  It was the same old tiring line from him that I've grown accustomed to.
Quote from: frogprog on January 05, 2023, 05:45:48 PM...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen discography thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!
QUEEN Discography  [url="https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=57201.0"]https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=57201.0[/url]

TAC

Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 05:12:11 PM
Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM
Regardless whether you think it was the right thing or deserved or not, the band burned him.


How on Earth has the band burned him?

They basically called his bluff ..... And it’s true, Portnoy opened that can of worms, but it appears DT was VERY eager to drop him like a hot potato.

Yes, I agree with all of this, actually, and it's exactly as I see it. I said at the time the band called his bluff.

He was done with them, and obviously they were done with him.

Listen, I loved MP, and he was by far my favorite member of the band, but I cannot support the opinion that he was burned.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

gmillerdrake

Quote from: DragonAttack on November 11, 2019, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM

So, again, stupid thing to say but I shudder to think of the things I've said that I regretted about former coworkers for example. You and i just have the luxury of not having a microphone/recording device on us at all times.

But he knew he had a mic in front of him at that time, and chose to say what he said, and then sheepishly acted innocent.  I didn't hear a retraction or a 'oh, c'mon, man, I was just frickin' kidding' line that followed.  I'm not angry or up in arms or disappointed at what he said, and then did not say.  It was the same old tiring line from him that I've grown accustomed to.

Yep. MPs bravado and ego and narcissism and arrogance and everything associated with it is just expected now. At one time I'd hoped for more from him....maybe a tad bit of humility and humbleness but I know that's wishful thinking.

I like watching the guy drum and enjoy the heck out of TNMB and Transatlantic....but have given up hope on his behavior and/or thoughtless comments.

bosk1

Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 05:12:11 PMThey basically called his bluff after the whole "I want a break situation"

That's not accurate at all.  From what we heard from both DT and MP, the band said they wanted him to stay involved and to work with them on the next album.  That isn't "calling his bluff."  Again, even MP doesn't see it that way.  So there is no basis for fans to revise history in that regard.

King Postwhore

Asking 4 other bandmates to take a 5 year break is asking a lot.

Mike made it about himself and I suspect they had a lot of that over the years.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Madman Shepherd

Quote from: DragonAttack on November 11, 2019, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 04:32:10 PM

So, again, stupid thing to say but I shudder to think of the things I've said that I regretted about former coworkers for example. You and i just have the luxury of not having a microphone/recording device on us at all times.

But he knew he had a mic in front of him at that time, and chose to say what he said, and then sheepishly acted innocent.  I didn't hear a retraction or a 'oh, c'mon, man, I was just frickin' kidding' line that followed.  I'm not angry or up in arms or disappointed at what he said, and then did not say.  It was the same old tiring line from him that I've grown accustomed to.

Yeah, we've all said things we regret but I'd like to think if we truly regretted them we would retract what we said. Maybe even apologize. If not, it's safe to assume we still believe those things.

Quote from: Stadler on November 11, 2019, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

If Russell Allen sang for DT I wouldn't be a fan.   I'm in because of James.   


...and people take for granted his amazing range, even to this day. Sure he struggled more now that he's in his 50s but shit, he can still do a lot of things other vocalists can't and while I'm not too familiar with Russell Allen, I think Russell would have to make some SERIOUS adjustments to most of the DT catalog to get through a show. James makes minimal adjustments and can typically stay about 90-95% loyal to some of the more challenging songs.

Jamesman42

It's amazing that we are on the cusp of a new decade, and Portnoy is still Portnoying as always.

Yes I signed back in to write this. See you in 2030.

bosk1

When James comes in like a bosk to drop some knowledge, you can take it to the bank.  ;)

Adami

Quote from: Jamesman42 on November 11, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
It's amazing that we are on the cusp of a new decade, and Portnoy is still Portnoying as always.

Yes I signed back in to write this. See you in 2030.

Love you Jimmy.
[url="//www.fanticide.bandcamp.com"]www.fanticide.bandcamp.com[/url]

lonestar

Oh Mike.....you really should focus on developing that brain to mouth filter man.



Hi James :hearts:

Jamesman42

I like how my three biggest fans reply right away. Love you guys :*

bosk1

Quote from: Jamesman42 on November 11, 2019, 05:52:49 PM
I like how my three biggest fans reply right away. Love you guys :*

And in relative order of bigness too.

TAC

Quote from: bosk1 on November 11, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 05:12:11 PMThey basically called his bluff after the whole "I want a break situation"

That's not accurate at all.  From what we heard from both DT and MP, the band said they wanted him to stay involved and to work with them on the next album.  That isn't "calling his bluff."  Again, even MP doesn't see it that way.  So there is no basis for fans to revise history in that regard.

"Calling his bluff" is how I read the situation.

Are saying that they wanted MP to do the album, but they'd tour with a fill in drummer? Are you sure it's not a case of "We'd love for you to stay.....(not really).."

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Jamesman42

Quote from: bosk1 on November 11, 2019, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: Jamesman42 on November 11, 2019, 05:52:49 PM
I like how my three biggest fans reply right away. Love you guys :*

And in relative order of bigness too.

small, medium, and large

bosk1

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on November 11, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 05:12:11 PMThey basically called his bluff after the whole "I want a break situation"

That's not accurate at all.  From what we heard from both DT and MP, the band said they wanted him to stay involved and to work with them on the next album.  That isn't "calling his bluff."  Again, even MP doesn't see it that way.  So there is no basis for fans to revise history in that regard.

"Calling his bluff" is how I read the situation.

Are saying that they wanted MP to do the album, but they'd tour with a fill in drummer? Are you sure it's not a case of "We'd love for you to stay.....(not really).."

No, I'm saying they wanted MP to do the album and tour.  But he said no. 

Volante99

#1187
Quote from: bosk1 on November 11, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 05:12:11 PMThey basically called his bluff after the whole "I want a break situation"

That's not accurate at all.  From what we heard from both DT and MP, the band said they wanted him to stay involved and to work with them on the next album.  That isn't "calling his bluff."  Again, even MP doesn't see it that way.  So there is no basis for fans to revise history in that regard.

I guess I'm unaware of the historical inaccuracies. Portnoy left the band in September, asked to rejoin in December but the damage was done, by late 2010/early 2011 communications appear to be completely broken down and the door was shut to Portnoy. Auditions for a new drummer had began by November. My "calling his bluff" is more a read between the lines assessment of the situation. Again I won't claim that DT didn't try to work things out prior to the public announcements. What is certain is that the situation escalated rapidly and deteriorated even faster. I'm also sure that Portnoy is reluctant in admitting he was holding the band hostage with power plays. I'm actually amazed he admits, publicly, he wanted to rejoin DT almost immediately.

TAC

Quote from: bosk1 on November 11, 2019, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on November 11, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 11, 2019, 05:12:11 PMThey basically called his bluff after the whole "I want a break situation"

That's not accurate at all.  From what we heard from both DT and MP, the band said they wanted him to stay involved and to work with them on the next album.  That isn't "calling his bluff."  Again, even MP doesn't see it that way.  So there is no basis for fans to revise history in that regard.

"Calling his bluff" is how I read the situation.

Are saying that they wanted MP to do the album, but they'd tour with a fill in drummer? Are you sure it's not a case of "We'd love for you to stay.....(not really).."

No, I'm saying they wanted MP to do the album and tour.  But he said no.

So..

Band-"Even though you think the band should take a break, we don't think so, and we still want you to do the album and the tour"
MP-" I think we need a break"
Band-"Well we don't think so"
MP-"Then I have to leave"
Band-"Well we wish you wouldn't but if that's your choice so be it. We are going to continue."


I mean, if you are alluding that Dream Theater has told you differently, then by all means, please share, unless it was told to you confidentially. I believe JP has always said the right, positive spin responses publicly, and likely privately to you. There is no way that he will ever say that they were glad he left.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

bosk1

Quote from: TAC on November 11, 2019, 06:14:59 PMBand-"Even though you think the band should take a break, we don't think so, and we still want you to do the album and the tour"
MP-" I think we need a break"
Band-"Well we don't think so"
MP-"Then I have to leave"
Band-"Well we wish you wouldn't but if that's your choice so be it. We are going to continue."

No, I think that's fairly accurate in comparison to what has come out publicly.  But "calling a bluff" implies trying to manipulate the situation for a particular outcome that isn't apparent on its face.  This isn't that.  They wanted him to stay.  But they weren't about to sacrifice what they had all had planned and were, by all accounts, completely transparent about that.