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The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

Started by Perpetual Change, December 13, 2010, 04:48:35 AM

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Lethean

Quote from: Zook on November 11, 2019, 08:18:02 AM
Well MP was ruining Dream Theater with his vocals so...

I probably wouldn't have gone so far as to say "ruin," but I pretty much feel the same way. 

Zook

Quote from: Lethean on November 11, 2019, 08:20:08 AM
Quote from: Zook on November 11, 2019, 08:18:02 AM
Well MP was ruining Dream Theater with his vocals so...

I probably wouldn't have gone so far as to say "ruin," but I pretty much feel the same way. 

Ruin is a strong word, but once he began to insert himself into the second lead vocalist role, the songs started suffering. I think his vocals on The Glass Prison are fine. Not much or anything else after that.

hefdaddy42

Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Samsara

To me, it's just another example of MP not controlling himself, and sticking his foot in his mouth.

It doesn't matter HOW he meant it. The fact he said it, even under the guise he was off-air, speaks volumes. Enough already. Grow the F up. Sure, depending on context you could take it as a joke (all those nutty sharp high notes, har har, etc.). But MP just never seems to get the big picture.  It's sad, really.

Trav86

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on November 11, 2019, 08:28:44 AM
Mike Portnoy: is Mike Portnoy again

Me: SMH
This. I understand that he was just speaking his mind, and apparently didn't think he was on-air. However, he's said douchey things quite purposefully in a public forum many times. He's allowed to have his opinions but at his age, he should have a little more class when speaking to media types or fans. It obviously wasn't a private setting. But then again, being classy has never really been his forte. His personality was fun and entertaining when I was 15, not so much when I'm 33.

Mebert78

#1125
MP taking a random jab at JLB is just plain wrong, especially since it was the addition of James' voice that helped propel DT into the mainstream and ultimately helped make MP a household name in prog and metal circles. :-\

cramx3

I'd kind of like if this just squashed the idea of a LTE follow up that he's talked about.  I'd hope JP and JR don't feel the need to do DT without the annoying vocals.


MirrorMask

Quote from: goo-goo on November 11, 2019, 11:22:33 AM
Just made it to Blabbermouth
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-says-liquid-tension-experiment-was-like-dream-theater-without-annoying-vocals/

Well, half agree with him in the comments  ::)

My "favorite" comment is the one that called LaBrie "the last guy in". Sure, back in 1992, but he's on all DT albums except one and has the longest tenure of anybody else (past members included) except the two Johns  :rollin

DarkLord_Lalinc

It doesn't matter if it was a tasteless joke, if it was meant to be off-air or if it was tiny slip; it was a very crappy thing to say but once again it's so in his character it's not surprising at all.

And also, expert people at missing the point: "ISN'T HE RIGHT THO? LOL". It's not about if you like JLB or you despise him, it's about MP behaving like a child who needs scolding to understand the impact of words and that comments like that don't make you sound "cool" at all, but the complete exact opposite.

Oh, it's kinda sad to see someone you admired so much falling from grace so quickly and harshly.


The Walrus

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 11, 2019, 12:13:14 PM
Oh, it's kinda sad to see someone you admired so much falling from grace so quickly and harshly.

I dunno about quickly, but yeah, in 9 years the dude has just lost almost all the respect I had for him, and there was a whole lot there. Still love the drumming he's done with DT but post-DT he just seems so salty

cramx3

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 11, 2019, 12:13:14 PM
It doesn't matter if it was a tasteless joke, if it was meant to be off-air or if it was tiny slip; it was a very crappy thing to say but once again it's so in his character it's not surprising at all.

And also, expert people at missing the point: "ISN'T HE RIGHT THO? LOL". It's not about if you like JLB or you despise him, it's about MP behaving like a child who needs scolding to understand the impact of words and that comments like that don't make you sound "cool" at all, but the complete exact opposite.

Oh, it's kinda sad to see someone you admired so much dig so deep.

Agreed.  It's really not a huge deal, just kind of shows some of his true feelings on JLB.  Which is pretty much known, but at the same time, you don't need to say it even if the mic isn't hot.  Sometimes it's best to keep that shit to yourself, something he hasn't learned.  But since this is nothing new, it hardly changes how I feel towards MP although I do kind of hope the rest of the DT guys take notice and don't work with him on LTE or really anything and stick up for their singer and his annoying vocals. 

I mean, now that I am thinking about it, how the hell is JLB annoying but he'll tour with Ross Jennings or JSS singing DT?  It makes no sense other than being personal.

DarkLord_Lalinc

Quote from: Kattelox on November 11, 2019, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 11, 2019, 12:13:14 PM
Oh, it's kinda sad to see someone you admired so much falling from grace so quickly and harshly.

I dunno about quickly, but yeah, in 9 years the dude has just lost almost all the respect I had for him, and there was a whole lot there. Still love the drumming he's done with DT but post-DT he just seems so salty
Yeah, I know there's a lot of wisdom in the "separate the art from the artist" statement but sometimes I find it hard to support (with money, of course) an artist who personally I don't feel attached to in any sort of  emotional way but the nostalgia that lingers from the days in which he was one of the musicians that I looked up to the most.


TheGreatPretender

Look in the mirror,
What do you see?
The source of annoying vocals in DT songs.

wolfking

Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.  I'm sure if he knew they were on air he wouldn't have said it.  Don't know why he wouldn't think they were on air though.

Northern Lion

I know this whole JLB is good/bad/used to be good singer thing has been around for a long time.  I know he can struggle a little (or a lot) live some times, but imho opinion I think he still sounds great on the albums.

I like JLB's voice and I think he has oodles of talent.  But I know not everyone feels that way.  I honestly don't care what MP thinks.  I just care about how I feel about his performance as a fan, and I give him an "A"  :).

rumborak

Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

wolfking

Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

I think at the time, James was the perfect singer for I&W and Awake.  It would have been interesting however to see if he was fired if MP got his way after his voice declined and they replaced him with an Allen type.  If that then would have helped them get even further with their success or hinder them.  I love James' voice and as Lion said, love listening to him on the albums.  I'm happy with James and DT.

It's just funny the success they are having now so late into their career that to them Mike's comment would really be invalid to them.

Madman Shepherd

It's funny to think about all the bands that have broken up or changed members and so many have far more drama than Dream Theater. Take Motley Crue, I don't know much about them but I'm pretty sure every single member hates each other and yet they still reunited.

Of course, there are two things at play. First, they had millions of dollars behind their "reconciliation" and second, their drama was so great it was almost meaningless. It got so big where I doubt they even remembered why they hated each other so it was easier to put that stuff behind them, and the millions didn't hurt.

With a band that is Dream Theater's size, a reunion won't do much more than a temporary pay bump, and they would have to confront their very real differences. Mike would actually need to humble himself and give a real apology which I can't see him ever doing and DT aren't desperate enough for what would amount to a small increase in popularity.

And that is why there will never be a reunion with Portnoy.

cramx3

There is very little payday for a DT reunion with MP.  DT is just not that widely appealing to all of the sudden bring in more sales because of that.  I'd imagine it would sell a bit better than currently, but I can't imagine much to make it worth it (from a money standpoint). 

When I saw Aerosmith earlier at their Vegas residency, I was chatting with a security guard and he told me the entire band hates each other and they all stay somewhere different and get driven to the venue separately, basically only seeing each other on stage for the performance.  Now, a band as big as them can do that, I can't imagine DT having the funds to be able to shuffle everyone around privately so they don't have to deal with each other.  Just doesn't seem worth it.

wolfking

Besides Mike, the other guys aren't the kind of guys to chase the big bucks, if there was any on offer anyway.  They seem happy and content and can live very comfortably.  They also don't seem greedy to turn everything upside down to reunite.

El Barto

Quote from: cramx3 on November 11, 2019, 02:03:42 PM
There is very little payday for a DT reunion with MP.  DT is just not that widely appealing to all of the sudden bring in more sales because of that.  I'd imagine it would sell a bit better than currently, but I can't imagine much to make it worth it (from a money standpoint). 

Yep. It's a fixed market. The people who are going to see them are likely going to see them anyway. Some of us might make a point to catch multiple shows, and some people might be willing to travel a bit further to see them, but it's not enough to move them out of the venue class they currently reside within.

El Barto

Quote from: KevShmev on November 10, 2019, 06:05:35 PM
Quote from: El Barto on November 10, 2019, 02:01:33 PM
And this is different than the 400 pound man. That would be deliberately hurtful to the guy. JLB doesn't give a damn what MP's opinions about him are, and they are just opinions.

Okay, now that is something with which I can agree.  If JLB saw that video, he'd probably laugh to himself and think, "What a sad, bitter little man our ex-drummer has become."
Yep, I agree completely. I'd also call it an equally shallow and petty interpretation.

gmillerdrake

Quote from: Madman Shepherd on November 11, 2019, 01:59:31 PM
And that is why there will never be a reunion with Portnoy.

DT has zero reason to reunite with MP. Their music and musicianship has been dramatically better than it was in the final years of MP. I love listening to and watching MP play BUT for as good as he is he still sped up and slowed down songs unintentionally with the way he 'performed'. MM and the click track have eliminated that....and for me and my ears....it's been great.

They have no incentive to allow MP the privilege of playing with them again...nor does he deserve that privilege based off his behavior after he left them high and dry. Although I know they won't....I'd LOVE for JP to allow JLB to pen lyrics to a song that lambasted MP for being the spoiled, bratty baby that he's been since the split. Sure, he's reconciled with JP and JR but IMO that has more to do with the human beings that JR and JP are and less to do with MP 'changing' for the better. His recent comments just lend more evidence to what many suspect of him.

MirrorMask

Quote from: El Barto on November 11, 2019, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: cramx3 on November 11, 2019, 02:03:42 PM
There is very little payday for a DT reunion with MP.  DT is just not that widely appealing to all of the sudden bring in more sales because of that.  I'd imagine it would sell a bit better than currently, but I can't imagine much to make it worth it (from a money standpoint). 

Yep. It's a fixed market. The people who are going to see them are likely going to see them anyway. Some of us might make a point to catch multiple shows, and some people might be willing to travel a bit further to see them, but it's not enough to move them out of the venue class they currently reside within.

Case in point: I'm mere days away from the 20th anniversary of the beginning of my DT live experience, and in these 20 years I've always see them in the same venue, the one Iron Maiden play (and sell out within days). So from SFAM until now, with the odd exception (a festival, a theatre for The Astonishing, a totally equivalent venue basically as big as the same one once in 2002), they've always played the same place no matter what. And early next year they're still gonna play that arena. A Portnoy reunion wouldn't change that (well, to the point that they'd sell out that arena, I don't think they ever completely have a sold out even though at times it was pretty packed)

DarkLord_Lalinc

Quote from: cramx3 on November 11, 2019, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 11, 2019, 12:13:14 PM
It doesn't matter if it was a tasteless joke, if it was meant to be off-air or if it was tiny slip; it was a very crappy thing to say but once again it's so in his character it's not surprising at all.

And also, expert people at missing the point: "ISN'T HE RIGHT THO? LOL". It's not about if you like JLB or you despise him, it's about MP behaving like a child who needs scolding to understand the impact of words and that comments like that don't make you sound "cool" at all, but the complete exact opposite.

Oh, it's kinda sad to see someone you admired so much dig so deep.

Agreed.  It's really not a huge deal, just kind of shows some of his true feelings on JLB.  Which is pretty much known, but at the same time, you don't need to say it even if the mic isn't hot.  Sometimes it's best to keep that shit to yourself, something he hasn't learned.  But since this is nothing new, it hardly changes how I feel towards MP although I do kind of hope the rest of the DT guys take notice and don't work with him on LTE or really anything and stick up for their singer and his annoying vocals. 

I mean, now that I am thinking about it, how the hell is JLB annoying but he'll tour with Ross Jennings or JSS singing DT?  It makes no sense other than being personal.

Agreed in all accounts. JLB hasn't had a perfect vocal career, as it has had more ups and downs than probably any other metal singer I'm aware of, but his voice defined, defines and will continue to define DT. I find it, for some reason, very heart-warming to see all current members support and love him.

Stadler

Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

If Russell Allen sang for DT I wouldn't be a fan.   I'm in because of James.   

I just don't really see how all the vitriol is justified when we can't even agree what he meant.  Apparently few of you are fans of Floyd, Oasis, the Stones, KISS, The Black Crowes, The Kinks, Van Halen, Iron Maiden... it's between them. 


TAC

Quote from: Stadler on November 11, 2019, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

If Russell Allen sang for DT I wouldn't be a fan.   I'm in because of James.   

I have always felt and said MP is in a conundrum. His band (when he was in DT) really owes a ton to James, and he knows that, and that is what burns him the most.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

rumborak

Quote from: Stadler on November 11, 2019, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

If Russell Allen sang for DT I wouldn't be a fan.   I'm in because of James.   

A perfectly valid opinion, and dare I say, good for you. But, I think you will agree that it is a minority opinion.

wolfking

Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Stadler on November 11, 2019, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: rumborak on November 11, 2019, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: wolfking on November 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Meh.  He's bitter and that's fine, although DT may not have gotten the success they had without James.

Nobody will ever know of course, but my personal thought is that with somebody with a voice anywhere near Russell Allen, I think they could have gone really, really big. I have never met a person who wasn't impressed with their musical skill and yet good songwriting, but I know a lot of people who say "yeah, but that singer..."

(In now way am I defending MP, who is trying to resuscitate his career with this kind of stuff)

If Russell Allen sang for DT I wouldn't be a fan.   I'm in because of James.   

A perfectly valid opinion, and dare I say, good for you. But, I think you will agree that it is a minority opinion.

Minority opinion in liking James or sticking with the band because of him?  Really?  I enjoy DT as a whole but a lot of the reason is because of James too.  Couldn't imagine anyone else singing on the albums.

Peter Mc

I don't think he sees it that way. I think he's always felt that JLB held them back from being more commercially successful. I'm sure he actually said this even when he was in the band. Basically said, in so many words "we know his voice is annoying but we're stuck with him as he is the voice of DT".

Agree with Stadler about Russell Allen, would hate him to be the singer in DT. Such a generic cheese metal singer. La Brie is a much classier singer imo and gives DT a much more unique recognisable sound. I remember listening to AMob and ADTOE side by side when those albums came out and there was no comparison between the two performances.

wolfking

Allen would be cool, but wouldn't be able to cover the vast types of music DT has done IMO.

The Walrus

LaBrie in his prime > Allen in his prime imo. I also agree with what Kade just said.

TAC

James can convey emotion. He can make you feel stuff. I don't think Russ Allen could match that. Sure, if you like Russ Allen, fine, but I just would not be able to connect to Dream Theater they way I have had it not been for James.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

bosk1

Not sure whether MP had a benign meaning or not.  He either realized that he did not, or he realized that whatever he said was likely to be taken poorly.  So either way, he should have not opened his mouth in the first place.  Either way, he shouldn't have said what he said to begin with.  This is just one more in a LONG list of examples where he proved that, even in the BEST case scenario, he severely lacks in judgment and maturity.  So at the end of the day, as was said above, it doesn't really matter what he meant.  He continues to alienate fans by acting the way he does, and he is foolish to fail to realize that.