The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

[MinistroRaven]

I Just read this interview and think i should share it here.

https://musicplayers.com/2019/04/mike-portnoy-the-complex-foundation-that-propels-the-neal-morse-band/

Interesting omissions when talking about bass players

Deliberated? Unconscious?

[El Barto]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

[Anxiety35]

I think he's moved on from DT and speaks about the bass players he's playing with now (George, Sheehan, LaRue). I don't take it as a slight on Myung. He's been complimentary of Myung in the past. The interview was focused on the NMB, the album, gear, tour, etc. so MP not harkening back to Myung doesn't mean he thinks anything negative.

[Stadler]

I think he's moved on from DT and speaks about the bass players he's playing with now (George, Sheehan, LaRue). I don't take it as a slight on Myung. He's been complimentary of Myung in the past. The interview was focused on the NMB, the album, gear, tour, etc. so MP not harkening back to Myung doesn't mean he thinks anything negative.

Levin isn't current.

I think it's more subtle than you might expect from Mike, but there's indirect evidence that he's grown apart from Myung over the years (and vice versa).  I recently burned all my DT to network drive, and part of that was extracting the audio from all the DVDs (that weren't also on CD).   As such I watched most (all?) of the documentaries that came along with the DVDs, and starting around the time of Octavarium or so, there seemed to be a growing... distance.   Little comments here and there that betrayed a separation.

Then - and I think el Barto may be alluding to this - shortly after the "break", he was asked about bass players and pointedly did NOT mention Myung, and at that point it was fresh enough where he didn't have the luxury of saying "oh, I only meant players I was playing with RIGHT NOW."  I know that as fans we want all our heroes to be best buds and friends for life, but I think it's not the case here, for better or worse.

[Nick]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

[El Barto]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

Haven't they lived down the street from each other for like 20 years?  Not arguing with you, as you'd probably know better than me, but it's just the impression I've gotten over the years.

[Stadler]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

But I thought there was a lot of chatter about "he lives down the street from me, but we might as well be 1000 miles apart."  I know for a fact that Mike complained at one point about JM hiding beneath a set of earphones more often than not.

[Anxiety35]

I think he's moved on from DT and speaks about the bass players he's playing with now (George, Sheehan, LaRue). I don't take it as a slight on Myung. He's been complimentary of Myung in the past. The interview was focused on the NMB, the album, gear, tour, etc. so MP not harkening back to Myung doesn't mean he thinks anything negative.

Levin isn't current.

I think it's more subtle than you might expect from Mike, but there's indirect evidence that he's grown apart from Myung over the years (and vice versa).  I recently burned all my DT to network drive, and part of that was extracting the audio from all the DVDs (that weren't also on CD).   As such I watched most (all?) of the documentaries that came along with the DVDs, and starting around the time of Octavarium or so, there seemed to be a growing... distance.   Little comments here and there that betrayed a separation.

Then - and I think el Barto may be alluding to this - shortly after the "break", he was asked about bass players and pointedly did NOT mention Myung, and at that point it was fresh enough where he didn't have the luxury of saying "oh, I only meant players I was playing with RIGHT NOW."  I know that as fans we want all our heroes to be best buds and friends for life, but I think it's not the case here, for better or worse.

Forgot about Levin.

I've revisited some documentary items also and I agree that it seems as if MP was growing distant after Octavarium. Maybe not as much relationally (it is in there) but more musically.

[Stadler]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

As an aside, I used to regularly drive from Philly to Erie, and my route took me through that part of the state and it's BEAUTIFUL there.

[bosk1]

I dunno.  I went into the article kind of assuming that people were overreacting to JM not being mentioned.  And when I got to the question, it really seemed that way, since the question had a particular focus.  But, yeah, the way Mike answered it, it seems REALLY odd to have not mentioned JM.  I hate to assume anyone's motivation, but it does kinda look like an intentional slight.

[MinistroRaven]

I dunno.  I went into the article kind of assuming that people were overreacting to JM not being mentioned.  And when I got to the question, it really seemed that way, since the question had a particular focus.  But, yeah, the way Mike answered it, it seems REALLY odd to have not mentioned JM.  I hate to assume anyone's motivation, but it does kinda look like an intentional slight.

You are right bosk1, plus saying that the interview was only about the "current" isn't totally true, because Dream Theater was mentioned A LOT on this interview, so, to me not mentioning JM was a slight at him, come on, that guy is a monster on his instrument just as much as the others he did mentioned.

[El Barto]

I dunno.  I went into the article kind of assuming that people were overreacting to JM not being mentioned.  And when I got to the question, it really seemed that way, since the question had a particular focus.  But, yeah, the way Mike answered it, it seems REALLY odd to have not mentioned JM.  I hate to assume anyone's motivation, but it does kinda look like an intentional slight.

And I recall this happening before. He talks about the grass bass players he's had the privilege of playing with and Myung is noticeably absent. And MP knows better than anybody that JMX is a "great" bass player (when allowed to be).

[Mladen]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Mike and JM see each other every now and then in local shops and stuff? Mike's reunions with Petrucci and Rudess were headlines online, but for all we know, Mike and JM might have bumped into one another and engaged in conversation plenty of times, there was just no talk about it.

[MinistroRaven]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Mike and JM see each other every now and then in local shops and stuff? Mike's reunions with Petrucci and Rudess were headlines online, but for all we know, Mike and JM might have bumped into one another and engaged in conversation plenty of times, there was just no talk about it.

Being as active in the social media as MP is, if that would have happened, I am sure he would have posted a picture of that.

[El Barto]

Has he ever brought up Myung when talking about the great players he's played with? I think it's a customary omission.

And this is just my uninformed opinion, but I don't think he's ever thought very highly of him.

FWIW I don't think that's accurate and believe they have a pretty good relationship. When Mike moved to my area John followed shortly behind and lives literally down the street from him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Mike and JM see each other every now and then in local shops and stuff? Mike's reunions with Petrucci and Rudess were headlines online, but for all we know, Mike and JM might have bumped into one another and engaged in conversation plenty of times, there was just no talk about it.

It'd be kind of sad if they didn't. Haven't these two known each other since they were teenagers? I think it would take some real animosity to not want to occasionally bullshit over a cup of coffee or something with somebody you've known more than half your life, even if neither has any interest whatsoever in a musical relationship.

[MirrorMask]

I dunno. I've basically stopped having contact with my 2nd degree cousin who still lives in the street two parallels from me, for no other particular reason than both being adults with jobs and having different social circles. I wouldn't be too much surprised that two world class musicians, often busy with projects when they aren't actually touring and both with families, would never meet each other even if they live so close.

[Mladen]

I was thinking more of an accidental encounter, like taking a glimpse of each other in the cereal section at the mall. And then, "Oh, hi! So, how's it going with the dozen bands?" 

[MirrorMask]

I was thinking more of an accidental encounter, like taking a glimpse of each other in the cereal section at the mall. And then, "Oh, hi! So, how's it going with the dozen bands?" 

I can totally imagine Myung, not out of spite or animosity but just for his introverted nature that probably makes him hate small talk (or any kind of talk really), pretending to be very concentrated on which brand of cereal to chose to make it look as if he didn't see him 

[bosk1]

  Who buys cereal at the mall?

[El Barto]

I dunno. I've basically stopped having contact with my 2nd degree cousin who still lives in the street two parallels from me, for no other particular reason than both being adults with jobs and having different social circles. I wouldn't be too much surprised that two world class musicians, often busy with projects when they aren't actually touring and both with families, would never meet each other even if they live so close.

Don't they live in a somewhat rural part of Penn? Dallas is huge, and I bump into one of my doctors buying groceries all the time. Former neighbors. Old buddies. If they're in a Walmart town then random encounters would come up from time to time.

[Nick]

I dunno. I've basically stopped having contact with my 2nd degree cousin who still lives in the street two parallels from me, for no other particular reason than both being adults with jobs and having different social circles. I wouldn't be too much surprised that two world class musicians, often busy with projects when they aren't actually touring and both with families, would never meet each other even if they live so close.

Don't they live in a somewhat rural part of Penn? Dallas is huge, and I bump into one of my doctors buying groceries all the time. Former neighbors. Old buddies. If they're in a Walmart town then random encounters would come up from time to time.

The area where we live is outside of Allentown, a reasonable city (500k-ish), but we are not anywhere near "rural" PA. Although you can be surrounded by nature in many areas here, and live in a relative woodsy setting in many places, the fact remains you're never more than 15 minutes from a shopping center or reasonable town of some sort.

As far as bumping into each other, no idea how often it happens, though I was there once when it happened after the split, but won't go into details past that.

[Stadler]

Well, certain places play "big", and certain places play "small".  I lived in the city of Philadelphia and ran into peopel ALL the time. I live in a semi-rural part of Connecticut, and live in the next town over from my cousin (in fact, I have to drive through that town to get to the highway I rail about all the time in the "left lane" threads) and we eat occassionally at the same restaurant, and yet I have not run into him even once in the four years I've been in this area.  I would venture, though, that if you expand out to the wives and kids, the equation changes (not at all being sexist, only noting that neither Marlene nor Ms. Myung are, to my knowledge, in touring bands at this point). 

[El Barto]

As far as bumping into each other, no idea how often it happens, though I was there once when it happened after the split, but won't go into details past that.

Yeah, that's definitely provocative enough that you probably shouldn't have even brought it up in the first place. 

[gzarruk]

I dunno.  I went into the article kind of assuming that people were overreacting to JM not being mentioned.  And when I got to the question, it really seemed that way, since the question had a particular focus.  But, yeah, the way Mike answered it, it seems REALLY odd to have not mentioned JM.  I hate to assume anyone's motivation, but it does kinda look like an intentional slight.

And I recall this happening before. He talks about the grass bass players he's had the privilege of playing with and Myung is noticeably absent. And MP knows better than anybody that JMX is a "great" bass player (when allowed to be).

I remember this too, I think it was during one of the Twitter Q&As he used to do a few years back, after the DT split. I clearly remember MP being asked about the best guitarists, bassists, keyboardists and singers he's played/been in bands with. JP and JR were listed in their respective instrument lists, but guess what? There was no sign of Myung or LaBrie anywhere there. If he was only citing people he was currently (at the time) working with, why did he bother to mention Petrucci and Rudess? That's what made the omissions even more noticeable.

Now, of course he can name whoever he wants on his own lists, but we're discussing whether he didn't include Myung (and LaBrie) on purpose or not, and I think he did (based on what I explained before).

[Nick]

As far as bumping into each other, no idea how often it happens, though I was there once when it happened after the split, but won't go into details past that.

Yeah, that's definitely provocative enough that you probably shouldn't have even brought it up in the first place. 

To be clear, I'm not indicating any positive or negative reactions of that meeting, it was simply at a time and for a reason that I don't want to pry into it further. I will say that they absolutely did not seem hostile towards one another.

[Stadler]

As far as bumping into each other, no idea how often it happens, though I was there once when it happened after the split, but won't go into details past that.

Yeah, that's definitely provocative enough that you probably shouldn't have even brought it up in the first place. 

To be clear, I'm not indicating any positive or negative reactions of that meeting, it was simply at a time and for a reason that I don't want to pry into it further. I will say that they absolutely did not seem hostile towards one another.

Respect what you said, but... .questions, questions, thousands of questions!   

[Mladen]

  Who buys cereal at the mall?

Sorry, I couldn't come up with a better example. 

[DTA]

I remember MP giving some condescending remarks to JM on the WDADRU DVD commentary when JM suggested they go back to writing in a jam/basement type setting that's less structured and "corporate" for lack of a better word. MP basically shot it down even though JM had some legitimate points. I feel like it became noticeable around that time that a little animosity formed from both sides and it's no secret that JM also seems happy to have MP gone by mentioning in interviews about how happy he is with the new rhythm section. Basically you have an extremely overbearing/extroverted personality with MP and a quiet/introverted with JM so it's no wonder they don't really get along. They probably never truly did have a great relationship but more or less a suitable working relationship. I believe Anthony Kiedis and Chad Smith are the same way in RHCP. Good bandmates with very little in common.

[ProfessorPeart]

I see MP talking/not talking about DT as a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation.

Say something about DT and it will be dissected for a deep hidden meaning or a nugget or a cheap shot, even if it was something positive.

Say nothing and he's disrespecting his old band and it's members.

I know this is a stretch, but JP has gone on record that he is up for another LTE record so talking about Levin as a member could fit. Yeah, it's a stretch.

Whatever, it's a no win situation for him. People say he talks too much and then when he holds his tongue he gets over-analyzed.

[bosk1]

Whatever, it's a no win situation for him. People say he talks too much and then when he holds his tongue he gets over-analyzed.

Sometimes, yes.  But not in this situation.  Did you read the interview?  He was asked about bassists in a couple of specific projects.  Mike went out of his way to expand on that and mention just about every really talented bassist he has worked with...except the one he was in a band with for 25 years.  It's not overanalysis to point out the omission of a simple statement like, "...and, of course, John Myung."

[gzarruk]

Whatever, it's a no win situation for him. People say he talks too much and then when he holds his tongue he gets over-analyzed.

Sometimes, yes.  But not in this situation.  Did you read the interview?  He was asked about bassists in a couple of specific projects.  Mike went out of his way to expand on that and mention just about every really talented bassist he has worked with...except the one he was in a band with for 25 years.  It's not overanalysis to point out the omission of a simple statement like, "...and, of course, John Myung."

This. And like I said on my previous post, Mike is free to mention whoever he wants when talking about great musicians he's worked with, we're just pointing out that this omission seems to be on purpose, that's all.

[El Barto]

I remember MP giving some condescending remarks to JM on the WDADRU DVD commentary when JM suggested they go back to writing in a jam/basement type setting that's less structured and "corporate" for lack of a better word. MP basically shot it down even though JM had some legitimate points. I feel like it became noticeable around that time that a little animosity formed from both sides and it's no secret that JM also seems happy to have MP gone by mentioning in interviews about how happy he is with the new rhythm section. Basically you have an extremely overbearing/extroverted personality with MP and a quiet/introverted with JM so it's no wonder they don't really get along. They probably never truly did have a great relationship but more or less a suitable working relationship. I believe Anthony Kiedis and Chad Smith are the same way in RHCP. Good bandmates with very little in common.

This is what got me to paying attention to that dynamic originally. I'd take it a step past condescending, though. It struck me at the time as downright belittling. If I'm not mistaken Portnoy actually came back to it later in the commentary like "yeah, maybe we could start jamming your mom's basement again," or something like that. I found it really awkward, and somewhat sad since we know it's not within JMX to return fire. (And my comeback would have absolutely resulted in punches thrown  ) After that things like Myung no longer contributing to the writing, or "retreating into his headphones" made a lot more sense. I've said all along that two members of the band are thrilled that he's gone, and one of them stems from that.

What I don't get is why MP has such a lack of respect for the guy. I don't mean respect musically. As I said earlier, Portnoy's way too much of a musician and music fan to not respect Myung's talent. The omissions when listing great players are personal, and goes back further than the split. It really seems to me like he just doesn't like the guy and hasn't for a long while.

[TAC]

I think MP's vision of being in a band in those early days meant that you were in a gang. I mean, even in the Majesty In The Basement video, there's a point where they are all mugging for the camera and JM just has his head down ignoring everyone else.

[MirrorMask]

Well, maybe Mike should tell some little white lies here and there; it's the general assumption that James and Mike are not exactly the best of buddies, but in the occasional interview you see the casual remark from James about how Mike was doing a great job at creating setlists or whatever. It would stick out like a sore thumb if James would say "Petrucci is so great at writing setlists I can't imagine anyone else in the band doing it". The casual mention of his former bandmates, for Mike, should come easy as long as it's just a casual remark and not a detailed request to go very in depth.

[Stadler]

I think MP's vision of being in a band in those early days meant that you were in a gang. I mean, even in the Majesty In The Basement video, there's a point where they are all mugging for the camera and JM just has his head down ignoring everyone else.

I think there's a LOT of truth in this statement.  A LOT.   I've long had the belief - rarely voiced - that Mike was, for a while, if not "jealous" then maybe a little envious of Charlie Benante.  I have a strong suspicion that he wanted DT to be "his" Anthrax, where the drummer is the sort of catalyst - singer, arranger, lyricist, writer, spokesperson, all-around metal AF captain of the ship - with his guitar-player foil (Ian/Petrucci).   And the personalities aren't the same.  i'm not prepared to put all the blame on Mike on this - I don't believe silence is necessarily consent, but then again, we're talking about adults in a closed-loop system; if you don't like something say something.   "Hey man, we don't see eye-to-eye, I get that, but how 'bout a truce?  I'll participate in your fucking stupid commentaries, Michael Stephen Coppola, and if'n I throw out a bon mot or two, in return, you don't drag it through the sewer system? Comprende?"