The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

[T-ski]

I’ve never had any issues with Mangini’s time in DT, but when I listen to the Portnoy era I find it a much more enjoyable listen. MP just has more ‘rock’ feel in his playing than MM. One isn’t better than the other, it’s just a different vibe.

[Mosh]

I would like to see MP back in Dream Theater before they retire, considering he is a founding member and was with them for the majority of their career. I don't have any illusions about Portnoy's presence in the band making a notable improvement on the material - JP and JR write most of the music so I imagine they would continue on the trajectory they're in now. But it would be cool to see the "classic" lineup be the one to close out the band's career, even if it's like that When Dream and Day Reunite concert where they play a few songs together. Have Mangini and Portnoy both play drums on something even.

I also agree that Mangini is an interesting character. I'll be honest I wasn't really expecting him to stay in DT that long. I figured he would do a few tours and then want to go back to teaching at Berklee as I had gotten the impression that he wasn't interested in the rigorous touring that DT does. It's clear now that he is in it for the long haul, but at the same time I would not be surprised if he decides he doeesn't want to do so much touring anymore. But then again, the other guys in the band are reaching the age where they could easily make that decision as a group.

[Cocopjojo]

That's an interesting question. Who would be the next person to leave DT? Probably Mangini for the reasons you said, in which case yeah, MP would probably rejoin.

After him, then I'd say Myung, as he seems like he gets fulfillment in life outside of the band and doesn't necessarily need it as a core part of his identity. Pure speculation, of course.

[goo-goo]

Jordan is getting up there in age...I believe he would be the one to retire first and just write in the studio with DT and not tour.

[Metro]

Honestly, maybe JR. Total baseless speculation on my part, but as he is the oldest member, I could see him wanting to go his own way and focus on his own projects in the late part of his career.

[Nekov]

don't get me wrong, i don't dislike mangini. but i gotta admit, he doesn't hit me with those unexpected moments like mike portnoy did, like with his surprise vocals at the end of a nightmare to remember. it's not about saying one's better than the other – it's about that element of surprise and sheer creativity. you might debate the quality of things like portnoy's singing, but you can't deny the sheer "whoa" factor - i don't feel that as much with modern dream theater. i don't know, i know some might say that's a good thing, but maybe i'm biased - that was one of the only dream theater songs my wife liked because of the heavier edge portnoy brought to the table.

I remember that the in last show I saw with MP they played Solitary Shell, one of my favorite song of theirs, and MP got down from the kit and started playing a "solo" hitting the drumsticks against the structure of the kit. Totally unexpected and kinda out of place, but it somehow fit the song. And you could tell he was just having fun. I went to a couple of shows with Mangini, but it just wasn't as fun and the energy wasn't there.
So I do agree with you. While the last records with MP weren't great, seeing them playing live with him was a very wholesome experience which I miss a lot.

[Stadler]

I would like to see MP back in Dream Theater before they retire, considering he is a founding member and was with them for the majority of their career. I don't have any illusions about Portnoy's presence in the band making a notable improvement on the material - JP and JR write most of the music so I imagine they would continue on the trajectory they're in now. But it would be cool to see the "classic" lineup be the one to close out the band's career, even if it's like that When Dream and Day Reunite concert where they play a few songs together. Have Mangini and Portnoy both play drums on something even.

I also agree that Mangini is an interesting character. I'll be honest I wasn't really expecting him to stay in DT that long. I figured he would do a few tours and then want to go back to teaching at Berklee as I had gotten the impression that he wasn't interested in the rigorous touring that DT does. It's clear now that he is in it for the long haul, but at the same time I would not be surprised if he decides he doeesn't want to do so much touring anymore. But then again, the other guys in the band are reaching the age where they could easily make that decision as a group.

I was of the same mind, and so certain I would have put money on it.  I'd've lost, to be sure, but that's what I thought.

[TAC]

I remember that the in last show I saw with MP they played Solitary Shell, one of my favorite song of theirs, and MP got down from the kit and started playing a "solo" hitting the drumsticks against the structure of the kit. Totally unexpected and kinda out of place, but it somehow fit the song.

I kind of disagree with this. Solitary Shell '09 might've been one of the most forced and cringey improv parts they ever did.

[cramx3]

I remember that the in last show I saw with MP they played Solitary Shell, one of my favorite song of theirs, and MP got down from the kit and started playing a "solo" hitting the drumsticks against the structure of the kit. Totally unexpected and kinda out of place, but it somehow fit the song.

I kind of disagree with this. Solitary Shell '09 might've been one of the most forced and cringey improv parts they ever did.

I remember liking it, but honestly, don't remember anything about how it sounded or what they did.

[Samsara]

I would like to see MP back in Dream Theater before they retire, considering he is a founding member and was with them for the majority of their career. I don't have any illusions about Portnoy's presence in the band making a notable improvement on the material - JP and JR write most of the music so I imagine they would continue on the trajectory they're in now. But it would be cool to see the "classic" lineup be the one to close out the band's career, even if it's like that When Dream and Day Reunite concert where they play a few songs together. Have Mangini and Portnoy both play drums on something even.

I also agree that Mangini is an interesting character. I'll be honest I wasn't really expecting him to stay in DT that long. I figured he would do a few tours and then want to go back to teaching at Berklee as I had gotten the impression that he wasn't interested in the rigorous touring that DT does. It's clear now that he is in it for the long haul, but at the same time I would not be surprised if he decides he doeesn't want to do so much touring anymore. But then again, the other guys in the band are reaching the age where they could easily make that decision as a group.

I was of the same mind, and so certain I would have put money on it.  I'd've lost, to be sure, but that's what I thought.

Same here.

re: who might be the "next" to leave DT.

I think it's going to be MM still. The romantic in me is pining for the SFAM-Black Clouds lineup to unite to end the band, so that is coloring it, but as many burned bridges have been rebuilt, I think at some point everyone will come to the conclusion that the era with MP is probably the right one to close it all out. How long will DT be able to go on, ya know? The Pirate has admitted he can't sing like he used to, it is mega expensive to tour now (and getting more difficult), and DT only plays seated rooms nowadays, and if they stick to that, costs will likely go up. My guess is, DT probably has 12 years of life left. 50th anniversary (Christ, we are all OLD AS F) might be the wrap-up. The 40th is in 2025, and frankly, I'd like to see MP return for that, and stay on. I really would. It's just...time for it...in my mind.

[cramx3]

I can't imagine MP wanting to rejoin if JLB is in his current state.  I know those two made up, and that's great, but that doesn't mean they will be able to work together.  I'm basing this on the fact MP wasn't happy with JLB vocals 20 years ago and things have only gotten worse.  Do a special show or even a final tour, sure, but to officially join back as a full member and continue on, I don't know.  I'm kind of skeptical on that at this point.

[Stadler]

I can't imagine MP wanting to rejoin if JLB is in his current state.  I know those two made up, and that's great, but that doesn't mean they will be able to work together.  I'm basing this on the fact MP wasn't happy with JLB vocals 20 years ago and things have only gotten worse.  Do a special show or even a final tour, sure, but to officially join back as a full member and continue on, I don't know.  I'm kind of skeptical on that at this point.

I think you're largely right, but one thing I have been considering, since Morsefest, actually, is that he seems less... not engaged, but maybe "invested"? I think the Mike from 1995 saw a path to everything he dreamed of as a kid, and knew he had the wherewithal, drive, and colleagues to get there. And he was ready to run through walls to get it.   I think, more or less, he did; he either got there or, like many of us do, came to grips with how close he was ever going to get. They went through singer hell, and it's pretty clear from Lifting Shadows that they were concerned that the lack of a singer would derail all their dreams.  1995 was not even five years removed from that. 2000 was only ten.  Now we're almost 35 years down the road, and there's nothing, so to speak, to derail.

I wonder very much if the old demons would arise, or, if like many bands that have gone through fire and came out the other side, they are done and buried.

[Samsara]

Honestly, while MP was very critical of JLB's vocals, I think time, maturity and where everyone is, financially and personally would temper all of that. JLB cannot be rangy any longer. It's pretty obvious. And MP is a smart guy, he knows that, and I think it wouldn't matter. Just my .02.

[Grappler]

I don't think anything will change unless Mangini quits the band.  The DT guys seem happy with the current lineup.  Petrucci plays or played with Portnoy on his solo record/tour and on LTE3 - he can still have some creative fun with him outside of DT and I don't see them rocking the boat unless Mangini rocks it himself.

[Ben_Jamin]

I would laugh so hard if after this controversy...JM ends up being the one leave.

[nobloodyname]

What controversy?

[lordxizor]

I'd love to see a farewell tour with MP in a decade or so. But I can't see them kicking MM to the curb in order to do that.

[cramx3]

I don't think anything will change unless Mangini quits the band.

I agree.  Of course everything I'm stating is hypothetical.  I don't see the band kicking Mangini out.

[Samsara]

I don't think anything will change unless Mangini quits the band.

I agree.  Of course everything I'm stating is hypothetical.  I don't see the band kicking Mangini out.

Agreed. The only way MM leaves is of his own volition. DT won't punt him to the curb. I could see MP and MM sharing some drumming duties for anniversary gigs though.

[TAC]

I could see MP and MM sharing some drumming duties for anniversary gigs though.

This would signal an end to MM in the band.

[Mosh]

We've seen this sort of thing time and time again in Rock history. Once a beloved former member starts making special appearances with the band, a full reunion often becomes inevitable. Seeing MP gradually appear with the band members more often, attend Dream Theater concerts, and participate in side projects makes me feel like things are eventually going to head in that direction. Even MP's involvement with the Lost Not Forgotten series is a tell, being in a position where he's able to participate on the business side of DT again is not something that would've been imaginable a decade ago. I agree that if MP actually appears on stage with DT even to share the stage with MM, it's not going to be long before he is back in the band. I don't think MM would be dismissed necessarily, but I could see them reaching a mutual agreement to part ways. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if before long Mangini decides he's had enough of the touring life. He's made that decision before.

I don't think JLB's vocals would prevent MP from returning. He complained about JLB in and out of the band but it has never been publicly revealed as a factor in his departure. He clearly wants to play in DT again and if it really bothers him he can ask the sound guy to take JLB out of his monitor mix (which I think he might have already been doing).

IMO the biggest roadblock to MP returning is actually MP himself. I don't know if he is going to be welcomed back into the band in the same capacity as when he left, making creative decisions and being the public 'face' of the group. I wonder if he would rejoin the band without assuming a leadership role. I also wonder about his drumming and ability to play songs from the Mangini era. The more albums they make with Mangini, the more difficult it's going to be to avoid playing songs from those albums with MP. I guess they've already started to avoid that era themselves - we're starting to see a pattern of MM era songs being retired immediately after their tour debuts, but there are a few songs (mainly from ADTOE) that have become staples. Portnoy himself has said that Mangini is a better drummer and he would probably have to rework a lot of the parts, not sure if he wants to come into DT as a comparative weak link.

Overall though the fact that we're talking about this in context of MM's status in the band more than anything else makes me feel like a reunion is more realistic now than it has ever been previously. There was a pretty long stretch where he wasn't even on speaking terms with a lot of the band. That is a much larger hurdle to overcome.

[The Letter M]

We've seen this sort of thing time and time again in Rock history. Once a beloved former member starts making special appearances with the band, a full reunion often becomes inevitable. Seeing MP gradually appear with the band members more often, attend Dream Theater concerts, and participate in side projects makes me feel like things are eventually going to head in that direction. Even MP's involvement with the Lost Not Forgotten series is a tell, being in a position where he's able to participate on the business side of DT again is not something that would've been imaginable a decade ago. I agree that if MP actually appears on stage with DT even to share the stage with MM, it's not going to be long before he is back in the band. I don't think MM would be dismissed necessarily, but I could see them reaching a mutual agreement to part ways. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if before long Mangini decides he's had enough of the touring life. He's made that decision before.

I don't think JLB's vocals would prevent MP from returning. He complained about JLB in and out of the band but it has never been publicly revealed as a factor in his departure. He clearly wants to play in DT again and if it really bothers him he can ask the sound guy to take JLB out of his monitor mix (which I think he might have already been doing).

IMO the biggest roadblock to MP returning is actually MP himself. I don't know if he is going to be welcomed back into the band in the same capacity as when he left, making creative decisions and being the public 'face' of the group. I wonder if he would rejoin the band without assuming a leadership role. I also wonder about his drumming and ability to play songs from the Mangini era. The more albums they make with Mangini, the more difficult it's going to be to avoid playing songs from those albums with MP. I guess they've already started to avoid that era themselves - we're starting to see a pattern of MM era songs being retired immediately after their tour debuts, but there are a few songs (mainly from ADTOE) that have become staples. Portnoy himself has said that Mangini is a better drummer and he would probably have to rework a lot of the parts, not sure if he wants to come into DT as a comparative weak link.

Overall though the fact that we're talking about this in context of MM's status in the band more than anything else makes me feel like a reunion is more realistic now than it has ever been previously. There was a pretty long stretch where he wasn't even on speaking terms with a lot of the band. That is a much larger hurdle to overcome.

Regarding MP coming in and playing MM's parts, I think MP once said that if he did come back, he probably wouldn't play MM's parts (though I don't think he said the songs, so he probably would make his own parts up), using the analogy of asking Derek Sherinian to come in and play Jordan's parts. Now, I don't think Portnoy is to Mangini as Sherinian is to Rudess, but Portnoy is definitely humble enough to know that Mangini does have skills he couldn't possibly replicate.

I've seen drummers online play MP-esque parts to MM-era songs and I think Portnoy could do it, but it would change the feel on more than a few songs, so IDK how fans of the MM-era songs would react.

-Marc.

[Samsara]

I agree with Mosh. There are a lot of signs. And when that happens, inevitably, it leads to something. Not always what we think, but something. We'll see what happens in DT. The band calling it quits without Portnoy...wouldn't seem right. But it's not right to dump MM either, and I doubt anyone in the band would be okay with that. So we'll see how it all transpires. I'm just glad that MP seems to be on good terms with all of them, and back to being brothers with JP.

[Trav86]

I really don’t see them going to a 50th anniversary. James and Mangini will be over 70 and Jordan well into his 70’s. I don’t think James or Mangini can physically handle a DT at that age. I could be totally wrong though.

My guess is one more album and tour cycle. Then a farewell tour with Portnoy sharing drum duty or something.

[bosk1]

I think the answer is likely somewhere in between.  Yeah, 50th is a long time.  But there are bands around today that have done it.  Metallica are only 8 years from that (less, actually).  Def Leppard are 4 years away.  U2 are 3 years.  Maiden are 2.  Rush made it to 50.  Bands like Aerosmith, Y&T, and the Stones are past 50.  Again, not sure DT will hang around that long, but they could.  There is certainly precedent.  3 bands that are major influences on DT are on that list above.  Whether or not they make it to 50 years, I think it will be closer to 50 than to just "one more album and tour cycle."  They are not showing ANY signs of wanting to wind it up after the next album and tour (which will take them past 40 years), despite that people have been saying "just one more album and tour cycle" since Octavarium.  That day will come, but I don't think we are close to it yet.

[Kram]

I agree with bosk, definitely more than one album and tour cycle left. 

I've got to say, I was listening to Train of Thought this morning for the first time in a long time - and boy do MP's drums "pop" on that album!  They sound amazing, and there's just an energy that has been missing since his departure (and I'm a big Mangini fan).  DT will always be JP, JM and MP for me.  I do hope he rejoins at some point before they call it quits!

[The Letter M]

I really don’t see them going to a 50th anniversary. James and Mangini will be over 70 and Jordan well into his 70’s. I don’t think James or Mangini can physically handle a DT at that age. I could be totally wrong though.

My guess is one more album and tour cycle. Then a farewell tour with Portnoy sharing drum duty or something.

As of today, the band members' ages are:
JR - 66
JLB - 60
MM - 60
JM - 56
JP - 56
MP - 56

I could see JM, JP, and MP reaching a Dream Theater 50th Anniversary in 2035 where they'll all be around 68 years old. I wouldn't count on them doing "The Glass Prison", "This Dying Soul", "A Nightmare To Remember" or more than one epic, but they might make it there! As for JR, he'd be 78 and I'm just not sure he'd still want to be touring extensively by then. Same for JLB and MM.

I agree with Trav86 - we may get one more album, and a tour to support it in 2024, but then do a 40th Anniversary Tour in 2025/2026 and then call it a day officially. Maybe do a reunion tour later down the line but I could see them going their separate ways once JM/JP hit 60 or 65.

Are any of them grandparents yet? I know most of them have adult children, but I think once they become grandparents, they might want to take it easy and enjoy life and grandchildren and what not. I doubt they'll retire from music permanently, as they all seem to be in fairly good shape, but I could see them not wanting to tour as extensively as they have been in the last decade or so.

-Marc.

[Trav86]

I think the answer is likely somewhere in between.  Yeah, 50th is a long time.  But there are bands around today that have done it.  Metallica are only 8 years from that (less, actually).  Def Leppard are 4 years away.  U2 are 3 years.  Maiden are 2.  Rush made it to 50.  Bands like Aerosmith, Y&T, and the Stones are past 50.  Again, not sure DT will hang around that long, but they could.  There is certainly precedent.  3 bands that are major influences on DT are on that list above.  Whether or not they make it to 50 years, I think it will be closer to 50 than to just "one more album and tour cycle."  They are not showing ANY signs of wanting to wind it up after the next album and tour (which will take them past 40 years), despite that people have been saying "just one more album and tour cycle" since Octavarium.  That day will come, but I don't think we are close to it yet.

Agree on some. For the record though, Rush ended on their 40th anniversary. 41 actually lol. I could see DT making it to 40. 

But DT’s music is more physically demanding than all of those bands mentioned. For every member.

[TAC]

As of today, the band members' ages are:
JR - 66
JLB - 60
MM - 60
JM - 56
JP - 56
MP - 56

DT is a 6 piece??

[The Letter M]

As of today, the band members' ages are:
JR - 66
JLB - 60
MM - 60
JM - 56
JP - 56
MP - 56

DT is a 6 piece??

They're a 10 piece once you count everyone who has been in the band!

But I included MP's age because we are talking about him here in a thread dedicated to him and his chances of rejoining the band. Not everyone might know he's the same age as JP and JM so I figured I'd include his age anyway.

-Marc.

[Glasser]

I’ve never had any issues with Mangini’s time in DT, but when I listen to the Portnoy era I find it a much more enjoyable listen. MP just has more ‘rock’ feel in his playing than MM. One isn’t better than the other, it’s just a different vibe.

I feel exactly the same. The funny thing is he would have to learn the Mangini albums, which sounds kind of funny. I would hope he would do his thing with the songs... I hope one day we have this debate for real but I just doubt it ever happens and who would break that news to Mangini and have a good reason?

[TAC]

As of today, the band members' ages are:
JR - 66
JLB - 60
MM - 60
JM - 56
JP - 56
MP - 56

DT is a 6 piece??

They're a 10 piece once you count everyone who has been in the band!

But I included MP's age because we are talking about him here in a thread dedicated to him and his chances of rejoining the band. Not everyone might know he's the same age as JP and JM so I figured I'd include his age anyway.

-Marc.

I know. I was just busting your chops.

[HOF]

As of today, the band members' ages are:
JR - 66
JLB - 60
MM - 60
JM - 56
JP - 56
MP - 56

DT is a 6 piece??

They're a 10 piece once you count everyone who has been in the band!

But I included MP's age because we are talking about him here in a thread dedicated to him and his chances of rejoining the band. Not everyone might know he's the same age as JP and JM so I figured I'd include his age anyway.

-Marc.

Charlie Dominici - 72!

[ReaperKK]

I think the answer is likely somewhere in between.  Yeah, 50th is a long time.  But there are bands around today that have done it.  Metallica are only 8 years from that (less, actually).  Def Leppard are 4 years away.  U2 are 3 years.  Maiden are 2.  Rush made it to 50.  Bands like Aerosmith, Y&T, and the Stones are past 50.  Again, not sure DT will hang around that long, but they could.  There is certainly precedent.  3 bands that are major influences on DT are on that list above.  Whether or not they make it to 50 years, I think it will be closer to 50 than to just "one more album and tour cycle."  They are not showing ANY signs of wanting to wind it up after the next album and tour (which will take them past 40 years), despite that people have been saying "just one more album and tour cycle" since Octavarium.  That day will come, but I don't think we are close to it yet.

Crazy, it doesnt feel that long ago they were celebrating 20 years.

[jammindude]

I think the answer is likely somewhere in between.  Yeah, 50th is a long time.  But there are bands around today that have done it.  Metallica are only 8 years from that (less, actually).  Def Leppard are 4 years away.  U2 are 3 years.  Maiden are 2.  Rush made it to 50.  Bands like Aerosmith, Y&T, and the Stones are past 50.  Again, not sure DT will hang around that long, but they could.  There is certainly precedent.  3 bands that are major influences on DT are on that list above.  Whether or not they make it to 50 years, I think it will be closer to 50 than to just "one more album and tour cycle."  They are not showing ANY signs of wanting to wind it up after the next album and tour (which will take them past 40 years), despite that people have been saying "just one more album and tour cycle" since Octavarium.  That day will come, but I don't think we are close to it yet.

Your post has me wondering about an “end of tour” 40th celebration with a one night only “evening with” format. One set for each drummer, then an encore with both.

EDIT - …and then Jordan announcing retirement.