Author Topic: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)  (Read 240864 times)

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Offline gzarruk

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2905 on: October 27, 2022, 10:57:24 AM »
I meant to post about this earlier, but it's been a busy morning at work today :P

Mike's comment comes from World Prog-Nation's post on SFAM's anniversary. Derek own page replied to him there as well. There was some discussion at the DT facebook group and even Noxon was there responding to some peoople, including myself.

The thing here is that none of Derek's actual keyboard lines made it to the finished album. If we compare the demo to the actual SFAM, Jordan did his own thing even though some of the riffs were already composed beforehand. The same thing happened with Kevin and Derek for ACOS, and I don't see anyone complaining about Kev not getting credit for that...

Now, I know songwriting credits are a lot more than just writing the keyboard parts for a few sections here and there, and if Derek actually came up with some of the riffs, chord progressions, etc, then he should've been credited... except that he wasn't and Mike was a big player in the desicion making back then, so if anything, it's by his own doing; why try to play the good guy card here then?
This reminds me of the time they were promoting SOA's first album (2017-ish) where Mike tried to "rewrite history" by saying it was the other DT members really who wanted Derek replaced with Jordan and not really himself... but he's on record saying otherwise (just watch the Score documentary). There's no point in bringing this up 20+years later anyway...

So Derek's contributions to SFAM were either scrapped (the clear Derek-isms in the demo weren't included in the album anyway), rewritten or not big enough to be considered a songwriting credit anyway. If Metallica could release two albums with songwriting credits by Dave Mustaine, even when he was already out of the band and though they hated each other anyway, why couldn't DT credit the guy if he had contributed in some significant way? Unless there was a buyout back then, as Scotty says, but then Derek wouldn't be allowed to complain anyway, since he would've signed those rights away for some $$$.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline emtee

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2906 on: October 27, 2022, 11:10:29 AM »
Rock and roll drama. Very strange timing for such a comment. Perhaps Derek is going through something and this bubbled up.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2907 on: October 27, 2022, 11:26:41 AM »
Rock and roll drama. Very strange timing for such a comment. Perhaps Derek is going through something and this bubbled up.

Like the end of SOA?

Offline emtee

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2908 on: October 27, 2022, 11:28:55 AM »
Who knows. Maybe. Or something in his personal life. It just seems out of character based on their renewed friendship.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2909 on: October 27, 2022, 11:29:36 AM »
Who knows. Maybe. Or something in his personal life. It just seems out of character based on their renewed friendship.

A passive aggressive comment that half the fan base writes off as a joke is out of character?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2910 on: October 27, 2022, 11:30:51 AM »
Maybe he's just a jerk.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline emtee

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2911 on: October 27, 2022, 11:32:11 AM »
Based on their recent relationship I would say yes. Before the SOA formation it would seem par for the course.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2912 on: October 27, 2022, 11:33:25 AM »
Based on their recent relationship I would say yes. Before the SOA formation it would seem par for the course.

Well, maybe because MP is out of DT, he sees it as two ex employees bashing their former company? I dunno.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2913 on: October 27, 2022, 12:06:53 PM »
I always wondered how that worked.  I don't remember Kevin Moore getting a co-writing credit for A Change of Seasons even though it was written when he was in the band in the early 90s. I always assumed part of the leaving the band settlement covers anything like that, but I guess not.  Sherinian definitely has shown himself to be a big jerk in recent years, so lashing out this like publicly sounds about right.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2914 on: October 27, 2022, 12:10:54 PM »
TBF, it seems MP pointed it out first and DS doubled down on it.  Makes me wonder if MP was aware that DS was going to double down or not.  I can see it being the case that since MP is back to being on good terms with DT that maybe he started this to get DT to help out DS in some way.  But seriously, I kind of fall in line with Scotty that this likely was dealt with when the break up happened.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2915 on: October 27, 2022, 12:13:24 PM »
I always wondered how that worked.  I don't remember Kevin Moore getting a co-writing credit for A Change of Seasons even though it was written when he was in the band in the early 90s. I always assumed part of the leaving the band settlement covers anything like that, but I guess not.  Sherinian definitely has shown himself to be a big jerk in recent years, so lashing out this like publicly sounds about right.

I don't think there's any rule, and I don't think any settlement NEEDS to cover all issues (though I'd be surprised if any settlement doesn't have a release of claims clause). To my knowledge, Jake E. Lee is STILL chasing credits for the Bark At The Moon album (except for the title track).  I think it's pretty well known at this point that "Lennon/McCartney" is a pretty broad brush look at who wrote what. Some revisions to writing go the other way; isn't Michael Anthony now off a lot of the Van Halen songs he used to be credited on?  Gene Simmons famously gave his accountant a co-writing credit on the song "Charisma".   Kris Kristofferson gave Fred Foster half of his biggest song, "Me And Bobby McGee" for simple saying the title in the office one day. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2916 on: October 28, 2022, 06:30:43 AM »
I always wondered how that worked.  I don't remember Kevin Moore getting a co-writing credit for A Change of Seasons even though it was written when he was in the band in the early 90s. I always assumed part of the leaving the band settlement covers anything like that, but I guess not.  Sherinian definitely has shown himself to be a big jerk in recent years, so lashing out this like publicly sounds about right.

I don't think there's any rule, and I don't think any settlement NEEDS to cover all issues (though I'd be surprised if any settlement doesn't have a release of claims clause). To my knowledge, Jake E. Lee is STILL chasing credits for the Bark At The Moon album (except for the title track).  I think it's pretty well known at this point that "Lennon/McCartney" is a pretty broad brush look at who wrote what. Some revisions to writing go the other way; isn't Michael Anthony now off a lot of the Van Halen songs he used to be credited on?  Gene Simmons famously gave his accountant a co-writing credit on the song "Charisma".   Kris Kristofferson gave Fred Foster half of his biggest song, "Me And Bobby McGee" for simple saying the title in the office one day.

Yeah, songwriting credit can be a tricky thing.

Take Fleetwood Mac. Their rule apparently has always been that whoever came up with the original idea for the song got the full songwriting credit, no matter how much help anyone else gave, which explains why Mick Fleetwood receives almost no royalty checks and is always needing to tour again (because he spends his money faster than he gets it).

And then it feels like Dream Theater's rule for most of their career was everyone got credit since they'd all get together and jam it out and work out the songs as a group, although I know James was ousted from the credit inner circle for a while there in the 00s, IIRC.

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2917 on: October 28, 2022, 12:36:00 PM »
Knowing Derek's sense of humor and his relationship with MP, I look at that as Derek busting his balls in a sarcastic way and then expecting what happened to happen. A kind of bro response to his buddy and a troll effect on certain other people.
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2918 on: October 28, 2022, 01:07:46 PM »
I read Derek's response as "Cool that you finally acknowledge my contributions. But where was this acknowledgement when we were talking royalties some 20 years ago?" But what do I know?
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2919 on: October 28, 2022, 01:36:24 PM »
I expect DT to be above this level of nonsense . . . everyone knows Derek was in on those sessions; why in hell didn't they credit him? Lame.

Worth pointing out that the music on SFAM was credited to "Dream Theater."  Only the lyrics were credited to the individual band members.  Can't "Dream Theater" be interpreted to mean both the then-current members and Derek?  Should they have given the credit to "Dream Theater (including former member Derek Sherinian)"?


Why Derek decided to post is beyond me - he seems to still be salty over something that happened over 20 years ago. But I think it's a pretty safe bet that he was paid off for his contributions when they severed ties with him in 1999. If not, then you can be sure there would've been a lawsuit over this which would have been made public at some point before now. Even when they parted, in interviews of that time, Derek wasn't antagonistic - had he been screwed over, it would've come out then, not now.

Yup.

I'm obviously not privy to the specifics of DT's band agreements, but there are two possibilities.  First, upon joining the band, Derek may have signed off on a band agreement that governed the members' relationship with each other.  Upon leaving the band, there would have been negotiations about buying him out of his interest in the band and the various corporate entities through which the band conducts business.  The occurrence of these sorts of negotiations became public after MP left the band.  While MP was obviously a more longstanding and longer tenured member, the concept is the same.  A properly drafted band agreement dictates what happens if/when a member leaves the band.  Songwriting royalties may be within or outside the scope of a band agreement.  The second option is that, despite DS publicly being a "full member" of the band, he was, from a legal perspective, an employee who would have been entitled to nothing upon leaving the band (absent an employment agreement that entitled him to something.  If he thought he was entitled to credit and royalties, that's something that should have been dealt with through lawyers two decades ago.


I always wondered how that worked.  I don't remember Kevin Moore getting a co-writing credit for A Change of Seasons even though it was written when he was in the band in the early 90s. I always assumed part of the leaving the band settlement covers anything like that, but I guess not.  Sherinian definitely has shown himself to be a big jerk in recent years, so lashing out this like publicly sounds about right.

As with SFAM, the music for ACOS is credited to "Dream Theater," with the lyrics being credited to MP.  The same pattern of crediting the music to "Dream Theater" and the lyrics to the individual band members continued until SDOIT, with that album and TOT crediting the music to everyone other than JLB (except for Vacant) and the lyrics to the particular members.  They returned to crediting the music to "Dream Theater" on Octavarium and then went back to the individual member credits starting with BC&SL (except for TA, of course).


Yeah, songwriting credit can be a tricky thing.

It's not so much a tricky thing as it is something for which there are no legal or industry standard rules, so it's whatever each group decides among itself (and may or may not be memorialized in a written contract).
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2920 on: November 01, 2022, 07:14:46 AM »
Anyone have a link to the original post? I have my popcorn ready but the link seems dead.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2921 on: November 01, 2022, 08:17:28 AM »
Anyone have a link to the original post? I have my popcorn ready but the link seems dead.
Yeah, it's nothing but a white picture for me.

I started a thread a while back asking about writing credits, and honestly it just seems silly to me. I get that each band determines it on their own, but it seems to always turn problematic for somebody.
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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2922 on: November 01, 2022, 10:17:21 AM »
Anyone have a link to the original post? I have my popcorn ready but the link seems dead.
Yeah, it's nothing but a white picture for me.

I started a thread a while back asking about writing credits, and honestly it just seems silly to me. I get that each band determines it on their own, but it seems to always turn problematic for somebody.

When money is involved and contributing to a song isn't always so black or white, it's no surprise to see these things becoming problematic.  I've got to give props to bands who just credit the whole band.  That's kind of a big sacrifice from the main writer to help out the rest of the band.  I've read before about how Mastadon does this so it helps keep the band from having issues. 

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2923 on: November 01, 2022, 11:26:32 AM »
Anyone have a link to the original post? I have my popcorn ready but the link seems dead.

Does this work? https://m.facebook.com/2112prognation/photos/a.1416292662012608/2935392356769290/

Then you have to scroll through to find Mike's comment and Derek's reply.

Offline ytserush

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2924 on: November 12, 2022, 05:35:45 PM »
Knowing Derek's sense of humor and his relationship with MP, I look at that as Derek busting his balls in a sarcastic way and then expecting what happened to happen. A kind of bro response to his buddy and a troll effect on certain other people.

Without having read any off it, this would be the conclusion I'd come with. Derek Being Derek.

Offline noxon

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2925 on: November 20, 2022, 09:51:44 AM »
1: What's in the credits in the booklet is of absolutely no consequence, as that's not what decides who retains any rights to the music whatsoever. The band licenses their music in two ways; the mechanical rights (the written music) are signed off to publishing company, while the performance rights (the recorded music) are typically kept with the label.

2: Kevin Moore did get writing credits 100% for A Change of Seasons. https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/330664385

3: Derek did NOT get writing credits for the songs that came from the Metropolis pt2 demo. Jordan did: https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/491112168
https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/340790989
https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/904615184
https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/450309247

And don't tell me the keyboard parts for overture 1928 wasn't more or less lifted directly from the demo.

Why didn't Derek do anything about it before? Well, complex issue. He might not have wished to spend the amount of money a lawsuit actually requires... And burning bridges in the small prog metal community might not be the smartest thing to do either...

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2926 on: November 23, 2022, 03:27:15 PM »
Quote
MP NEW RELEASE ALERT!!
During the 2020/2021 Lockdowns, I recorded some songs for my friends in the band fuzzbubble who were reunited after 20 years and rebranding themselves as Cult Stars From Mars. Well, they’ve decided to go back to their original name of Fuzzbubble and compile all of their latest recordings into an album called…you guessed it, Cult Stars From Mars!

No matter which way you slice it, they are one of my favorite power-pop bands and I am honored to play drums on 4 tracks on their new album! (‘Dragonfly Pt 2’, a cover of ‘Blinded By The Light’ and two previously unreleased songs ‘ I Like That Song!’ & ‘The Window’)

If you are a power-pop fan like I am and dig stuff like Jellyfish, Lickerish Quartet, Redd Kross, Cheap Trick, Imperial Drag, etc etc this is mandatory listening! #YeahYeahYeah

Get your CD now here:
https://swagg66.bigcartel.com/


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Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2927 on: November 23, 2022, 04:39:12 PM »
I just downloaded it from Bandcamp  :metal

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2928 on: November 23, 2022, 06:15:05 PM »
reminds me of Cats in Space.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2929 on: November 23, 2022, 09:00:33 PM »
The Blinded by the Light cover is fun (even with JSS).

Offline emtee

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2930 on: December 30, 2022, 07:21:38 AM »
Wondering if I missed MP's 2022 best-of list this year. I always like to see what he's been listening to.

Offline frogprog

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2931 on: December 30, 2022, 10:16:33 AM »
Great song, great cover!

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2932 on: December 30, 2022, 12:28:52 PM »
Wondering if I missed MP's 2022 best-of list this year. I always like to see what he's been listening to.

Here ya go!

Quote

MP’s 2022 Year End Wrap-Up

Well after the one-two punch of 2020 & 2021, it was nice to finally be back to “normal” in 2022!!

And there was no shortage of great music, film & TV all year…so here’s my annual year end wrap-up:

MP’s Fav Albums Of 2022:
(In no particular order):
* Porcupine Tree - Closure / Continuation
* Slipknot - The End, So Far
* The Lickerish Quartet - Threesome Vol. 3
* Sloan - Steady
* Jack White - Fear Of The Dawn
* Charlie Griffiths - Tiktaalika
* Fuzzbubble - Cult Stars From Mars
* Dave Grohl / Foo Fighters - Dream Widow
* Tallah - The Generation Of Danger
* Queensryche- Digital Noise Alliance

Top 20 Honorable Mentions:
* Slash (feat. Myles Kennedy & The Conspirators) - 4
* Imperial Triumphant - Spirit Of Ecstasy
* Kirk Hammett - Portals
* Lamb Of God - Omens
* Vein.fm - This World Is Going To Ruin You
* Motor Sister - Get Off
* Klassik ‘78 - Phantoms
* Talas - 1985
* OU - one
* Mommyheads - Genius Killer

MP’s Fav Films Of 2022:
(In no particular order):
* Babylon
* Bardo: False Chronicle of a Handful of Truths
* X / Pearl
* Everything Everywhere All At Once
* The Northman
* Apollo 10 1/2: A Space Age Childhood
* Nope
* Elvis
* Blonde
* Men

And here’s a few films that were released at the end of the year that I’m looking forward to seeing but haven’t yet at the time of making this list…(but I have faith a few of them will end up here as well):

* The Fablemans
* The Whale
* Decision To Leave
* The Banshees of Inisherin

Click on the "Diary" on my Letterboxd page to see a list of every film I watched/saw in 2022:
http://boxd.it/asPR

MP’s Fav TV Of 2022:
(In no particular order):
* Euphoria S2
* Better Call Saul S6 (RIP)
* Ozark S4 (RIP)
* Atlanta S3&4 (RIP)
* Severance
* Documentary Now! S4
* Pistol
* The Staircase
* Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story
* The White Lotus S2
* Super Pumped
* Better Things S5 (RIP)
* Pam & Tommy
* Barry S3

Unlike the past couple of years where I wasn’t able to tour, getting back on the road meant less studio output this year…in fact, it was the first time in over 25 years (since 1996) that I didn’t have a full-length studio album!! 😳

MP 2022 Releases:
* NMB - Morsefest 2021
* Fuzzbubble - Cult Stars From Mars

And finally, a tribute to some of the people we sadly lost this year…

MP’s 2022 RIP Section:
Taylor Hawkins
Alan White
Meat Loaf
Trevor Strnad
Gary Brooker
Jerry Lee Lewis
Christine McVie
Mark Lanegan
Vangelis
Burke Shelley
Ronnie Spector
Alec John Such
Brett Tuggle
Steve Grimmett
Coolio
Dino Dinelli
Terry Hall
Peter Bogdanovich
Sidney Poitier
Philip Baker Hall
Ray Liotta
James Caan
Tony Sirico
Paul Sorvino
Bob Saget
Howard Hesseman
Jon Zazula
William Hurt
Gilbert Gottfried
Julee Cruise
David Warner
Olivia Newton-John
Anne Heche
Queen Elizabeth II
Al Strobel
Angelo Badalamenti
Kirstie Alley
Eric Barbasso (friend)
Stephen Schimmel (friend)
Joe Dondero (family)
George Marshall (friend)
Mittens 😿
Mini 😿

---------------------------------------------------

And for all you "list enthusiasts", 
Click below to see my previous Year End Wrap-Ups:   

MP’s Best Of 2021:
https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/467440288083981/?d=n

MP’s Best Of 2020:
https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/5269005006450432/?d=n

MP's Best Of 10's (Decade End Wrap-Up):
https://www.facebook.com/579020077/posts/10162979133495078/?d=n

MP’s Best of 2019:
https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/3653524981331784?sfns=mo

MP's Best of 2018:
https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/2680383655312593?sfns=mo

MP's Best of 2017:
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/2030845370266428

MP's Best of 2001 - 2016:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/best-of/

-Marc.
ATTENTION - YES FANS! The YES SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2933 on: December 31, 2022, 08:36:11 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/pfbid02JbXwb5wR2UasNiooyh71ezhfv8nwjcKTj2txrwJxGJV3k56Sf573XkQxjt6sNqrgl/?mibextid=Nif5oz

Quote
Look who came to Camp Portnoy to celebrate New Year’s!! 🎊🎉 We were supposed to be just hanging out, but I guess you can’t keep these guys off their instruments!! We should have an album written and recorded by Midnight! 😂😜 Happy New Years everyone!!



-Marc.
ATTENTION - YES FANS! The YES SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline TAC

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2934 on: December 31, 2022, 08:37:01 PM »
Who is the guitar player?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2935 on: December 31, 2022, 08:39:19 PM »
Who is the guitar player?

Eric Gillette aka Petrucci Jr. from the Neal Morse Band.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline TAC

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2936 on: December 31, 2022, 08:42:19 PM »
Who is the guitar player?

Eric Gillette aka Petrucci Jr. from the Neal Morse Band.

Thank you.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2937 on: December 31, 2022, 08:53:58 PM »
Tim, he is an amazing guitarist. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2938 on: December 31, 2022, 09:00:47 PM »
I just find it strange that a guy named Gillette has a beard.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2939 on: December 31, 2022, 09:01:18 PM »
New Year’s Liquid Experiment