Author Topic: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)  (Read 313274 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 30004
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2800 on: April 02, 2022, 11:08:00 AM »
I was testing negative within 10 days, hopefully he has a similar experience, really hopeful he's clear by the 19th.

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1237
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2801 on: April 02, 2022, 11:09:41 AM »
I wonder what studio albums Mike will be part of this year. Aside from a potential Winery Dogs, which will likely come out in 2023 inly, I haven't heard of anything else.
He said in that video that he has a few things in the works that he can't talk about yet.  I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

Don't think so, Simen Sandnes tracked drums for it, as far as I know.
OK good info, didn't know.

Offline HOF

  • Posts: 8721
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2802 on: April 02, 2022, 12:21:40 PM »
Poor Mike, he seems like he’s been really cautious this whole time. He just posted about getting his hair done for the first time since the pandemic, now he’s positive. He should be clear in less than two weeks I’d think though.

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1237
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2803 on: April 02, 2022, 01:02:48 PM »
Poor Mike, he seems like he’s been really cautious this whole time. He just posted about getting his hair done for the first time since the pandemic, now he’s positive. He should be clear in less than two weeks I’d think though.
Yes, he has been pretty careful.  My wife tested positive a month ago or so, and tested negative about 9 days later - so hopefully he should be good by the 15th when the tours starts.

Online nobloodyname

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 1987
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2804 on: April 02, 2022, 04:12:36 PM »
He'll be fine.

It's everywhere here in the UK. Astonished neither my nor my (ex-)partner have contracted it yet while we're still here together. Just 'hoping' I get it before the vaccines really wear off.
Paul
Gamer, rocker, humanist, womble
Leicestershire, UK
Getting right out of my comfort zone: www.youtube.com/@paulplayspoorly Go on, you can do it, too! (24/3/2024: Now playing on Paul Plays Poorly!, The Answer Lies Within by Dream Theater)

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30686
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2805 on: April 02, 2022, 05:40:09 PM »
Well, fuck.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Mladen

  • Posts: 15234
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2806 on: April 03, 2022, 11:55:06 AM »
It not just about making it before the tour - there is probably some pre-production and rehearsals that need to be attended. But given Mike's OCD, he'll figure something out.  :tup

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5195
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2807 on: April 03, 2022, 12:25:53 PM »
I think he (and the tour) will be just fine :tup
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1237
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2808 on: April 03, 2022, 12:53:17 PM »
It not just about making it before the tour - there is probably some pre-production and rehearsals that need to be attended. But given Mike's OCD, he'll figure something out.  :tup
Remember, Mike is famous for having an incredible memory and not needing to practice the songs.  Neal Morse joked that he, and the rest of the band, would practice their parts for weeks before a tour - and Mike would come in and say he hasn't even listed to the material.  It's apparently all in his mind and he can nail it from memory.  Pretty incredible actually..

Online The Letter M

  • Posts: 15556
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2809 on: April 03, 2022, 02:22:14 PM »
It not just about making it before the tour - there is probably some pre-production and rehearsals that need to be attended. But given Mike's OCD, he'll figure something out.  :tup
Remember, Mike is famous for having an incredible memory and not needing to practice the songs.  Neal Morse joked that he, and the rest of the band, would practice their parts for weeks before a tour - and Mike would come in and say he hasn't even listed to the material.  It's apparently all in his mind and he can nail it from memory.  Pretty incredible actually..

I think he remembers general grooves and song structures, but his fills might be a little bit difference. I remember in the documentary for the Whirld Tour, just before the show they would record at Shepherd's Bush for the official live album, he had to listen to the album version of "The Whirlwind" to get some fills right for the recorded show because he wanted them to be just right. I'm not sure about DT music he played live, but considering he lived and breathed DT for over two decades, I think he didn't NEED to try and re-learn all of those specific fills.

For something like Transatlantic that only tours once every 6-8 years, he probably needs a refresher on some of the more particular parts. He may have "The Whirlwind" down by now, but I'm sure learning all of The Absolute Universe might be a bit of a slog, especially if they do the 98-minute Ultimate version.

-Marc.
ATTENTION - HAKEN FANS! The HAKEN SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1237
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2810 on: April 03, 2022, 02:37:41 PM »
It not just about making it before the tour - there is probably some pre-production and rehearsals that need to be attended. But given Mike's OCD, he'll figure something out.  :tup
Remember, Mike is famous for having an incredible memory and not needing to practice the songs.  Neal Morse joked that he, and the rest of the band, would practice their parts for weeks before a tour - and Mike would come in and say he hasn't even listed to the material.  It's apparently all in his mind and he can nail it from memory.  Pretty incredible actually..

I think he remembers general grooves and song structures, but his fills might be a little bit difference. I remember in the documentary for the Whirld Tour, just before the show they would record at Shepherd's Bush for the official live album, he had to listen to the album version of "The Whirlwind" to get some fills right for the recorded show because he wanted them to be just right. I'm not sure about DT music he played live, but considering he lived and breathed DT for over two decades, I think he didn't NEED to try and re-learn all of those specific fills.

For something like Transatlantic that only tours once every 6-8 years, he probably needs a refresher on some of the more particular parts. He may have "The Whirlwind" down by now, but I'm sure learning all of The Absolute Universe might be a bit of a slog, especially if they do the 98-minute Ultimate version.

-Marc.
Probably.  But if anybody can pull it off with little to no practice, it's him.

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5195
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2811 on: April 03, 2022, 06:12:27 PM »
I remember Jordan's Patreon chat with Neal Morse (I watched the first 15 minutes, which are available on his FB and YT pages) where they talked about Mike's incredible memory and their nightmares of him pulling obscure songs out of nowhere for them to play suddenly on tour. Jordan mentioned them playing entire classic albums and Neal mentioned telling Mike "you know we don't just play the rhythms, you know? there's a bunch of notes we need to learn as well" :rollin
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19231
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2812 on: April 04, 2022, 01:52:07 PM »
I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

I love MP's drumming and I'm sure it'd be neat but I really hope not. I hope....IF.....Eric and Diego are working together which it seems like they are.....that it's their 'own' drummer and it's an all new band. Would love for it to be killer music and then a 'new' band to get into and see tour etc etc.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline Fritzinger

  • Posts: 2556
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2813 on: April 05, 2022, 04:00:28 AM »
I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

I love MP's drumming and I'm sure it'd be neat but I really hope not. I hope....IF.....Eric and Diego are working together which it seems like they are.....that it's their 'own' drummer and it's an all new band. Would love for it to be killer music and then a 'new' band to get into and see tour etc etc.

Diego once said he'd love to work with Eric and Baard Kolstad. I would love to see this combination.

I wonder what monster is playing bass. One of my favorites would be Amos Williams  :o

I also hope that this project is not an instrumental band.
any rock can be made to roll

Online MinistroRaven

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3834
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2814 on: April 05, 2022, 05:29:34 AM »
Is not an instrumental album.

Eric shared this on his FB 5 days ago:

Quote
Working on arranging background vocals for the new band that I can’t wait to tell you all about!! 😁

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5195
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2815 on: April 05, 2022, 09:39:53 AM »
I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

I love MP's drumming and I'm sure it'd be neat but I really hope not. I hope....IF.....Eric and Diego are working together which it seems like they are.....that it's their 'own' drummer and it's an all new band. Would love for it to be killer music and then a 'new' band to get into and see tour etc etc.

Diego once said he'd love to work with Eric and Baard Kolstad. I would love to see this combination.

I wonder what studio albums Mike will be part of this year. Aside from a potential Winery Dogs, which will likely come out in 2023 inly, I haven't heard of anything else.
He said in that video that he has a few things in the works that he can't talk about yet.  I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

Don't think so, Simen Sandnes tracked drums for it, as far as I know.

Since apparently nobody read or cared about that post, I have some links to share here :P

Here's Eric tracking guitars for that secret project: https://www.facebook.com/EricGilletteMusic/videos/4880315675347487/
And here's Simen at home with a caption "last day of preparations" just before heading to the studio to record a secret project, coincidentally at the same time Diego was visiting Norway: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ0CpdFgieo/

Sounds familiar?

Here's another clip from Simen at the actual recording: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaIOZAcgXp9/
Different track but definitely the same vibe/style as the other one, and those sounds just scream Diego to me.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19231
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2816 on: April 05, 2022, 11:32:33 AM »
I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

I love MP's drumming and I'm sure it'd be neat but I really hope not. I hope....IF.....Eric and Diego are working together which it seems like they are.....that it's their 'own' drummer and it's an all new band. Would love for it to be killer music and then a 'new' band to get into and see tour etc etc.

Diego once said he'd love to work with Eric and Baard Kolstad. I would love to see this combination.

I wonder what studio albums Mike will be part of this year. Aside from a potential Winery Dogs, which will likely come out in 2023 inly, I haven't heard of anything else.
He said in that video that he has a few things in the works that he can't talk about yet.  I wonder if he's a part of that new project that Eric Gillette is working on purportedly with Diego?

Don't think so, Simen Sandnes tracked drums for it, as far as I know.

Since apparently nobody read or cared about that post, I have some links to share here :P

Here's Eric tracking guitars for that secret project: https://www.facebook.com/EricGilletteMusic/videos/4880315675347487/
And here's Simen at home with a caption "last day of preparations" just before heading to the studio to record a secret project, coincidentally at the same time Diego was visiting Norway: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ0CpdFgieo/

Sounds familiar?

Here's another clip from Simen at the actual recording: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaIOZAcgXp9/
Different track but definitely the same vibe/style as the other one, and those sounds just scream Diego to me.

I think it's a fairly safe bet to presume Simen is the drummer of Eric and Diego's band  :lol   Can't wait for more info to be shared.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Online The Letter M

  • Posts: 15556
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2817 on: April 05, 2022, 06:58:31 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/525311352296874/

Quote
OMG this is absolutely hilarious!! I can’t believe somebody took the time to put this together  (and I’d bet there’s even more too!) I guess you can never have too much of a good thing  *ding*

Someone compiled, I believe, every time Mike has used a cymbal bell hit in the middle of a song - you know, when the groove stops and there's little to no music by the band, he hits the cymbal bell and then they launch into a new part or continue the previous groove/section.

I knew he did it a lot but not THAT much!  :rollin

Twitter link for those without Facebook-
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1511501288218972162?t=xNvt_Gq5XmteZufmIGyAxg&s=19

-Marc.
ATTENTION - HAKEN FANS! The HAKEN SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline HOF

  • Posts: 8721
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2818 on: April 05, 2022, 07:05:07 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/525311352296874/

Quote
OMG this is absolutely hilarious!! I can’t believe somebody took the time to put this together  (and I’d bet there’s even more too!) I guess you can never have too much of a good thing  *ding*

Someone compiled, I believe, every time Mike has used a cymbal bell hit in the middle of a song - you know, when the groove stops and there's little to no music by the band, he hits the cymbal bell and then they launch into a new part or continue the previous groove/section.

I knew he did it a lot but not THAT much!  :rollin

Twitter link for those without Facebook-
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1511501288218972162?t=xNvt_Gq5XmteZufmIGyAxg&s=19

-Marc.

That is tremendous. I knew exactly what you meant before I clicked the link.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41966
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2819 on: April 05, 2022, 07:07:15 PM »
When do we get the SNL skit of this (similar to the cowbell for BOC)? :P

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15721
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2820 on: April 05, 2022, 07:32:39 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/525311352296874/

Quote
OMG this is absolutely hilarious!! I can’t believe somebody took the time to put this together  (and I’d bet there’s even more too!) I guess you can never have too much of a good thing  *ding*

Someone compiled, I believe, every time Mike has used a cymbal bell hit in the middle of a song - you know, when the groove stops and there's little to no music by the band, he hits the cymbal bell and then they launch into a new part or continue the previous groove/section.

I knew he did it a lot but not THAT much!  :rollin

Twitter link for those without Facebook-
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1511501288218972162?t=xNvt_Gq5XmteZufmIGyAxg&s=19

-Marc.

The best is that he goes on to suggest more of them that he forgot. :rollin
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Online nick_z

  • Posts: 3718
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2821 on: April 05, 2022, 07:33:05 PM »
I was about to come here to post it. Very funny indeed  :lol

(including the "other Mike" nugget at the very end)

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5195
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2822 on: April 05, 2022, 07:49:49 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/525311352296874/

Quote
OMG this is absolutely hilarious!! I can’t believe somebody took the time to put this together  (and I’d bet there’s even more too!) I guess you can never have too much of a good thing  *ding*

Someone compiled, I believe, every time Mike has used a cymbal bell hit in the middle of a song - you know, when the groove stops and there's little to no music by the band, he hits the cymbal bell and then they launch into a new part or continue the previous groove/section.

I knew he did it a lot but not THAT much!  :rollin

Twitter link for those without Facebook-
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1511501288218972162?t=xNvt_Gq5XmteZufmIGyAxg&s=19

-Marc.

The best is that he goes on to suggest more of them that he forgot. :rollin

This :rollin
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online nobloodyname

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 1987
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2823 on: April 05, 2022, 11:06:07 PM »
Here's the one MP mentioned as "missing": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sta1NXW2uA

I'd never seen it before :lol
Paul
Gamer, rocker, humanist, womble
Leicestershire, UK
Getting right out of my comfort zone: www.youtube.com/@paulplayspoorly Go on, you can do it, too! (24/3/2024: Now playing on Paul Plays Poorly!, The Answer Lies Within by Dream Theater)

Offline Mladen

  • Posts: 15234
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2824 on: April 06, 2022, 12:50:26 AM »
That was such a funny video. It's so cool that Portnoy still addresses fan videos.  :lol

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43431
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2825 on: April 06, 2022, 06:45:36 AM »
I like the title:  "The Portnoy Manuever".   :)

(And by the way, that was something Neil Peart liked to do as well!)

Offline RodrigoAltaf

  • Posts: 2687
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2826 on: April 06, 2022, 10:33:20 AM »
I like the title:  "The Portnoy Manuever".   :)

(And by the way, that was something Neil Peart liked to do as well!)

Neil did it ONCE in Hemispheres, and that became a trademark of his.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43431
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2827 on: April 06, 2022, 10:41:37 AM »
I like the title:  "The Portnoy Manuever".   :)

(And by the way, that was something Neil Peart liked to do as well!)

Neil did it ONCE in Hemispheres, and that became a trademark of his.

I was thinking.... I think it's YYZ.

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1237
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2828 on: April 06, 2022, 12:04:58 PM »
Very funny! And to throw the Mangini one in there at the end was a nice touch haha.  But I kept thinking while listening, so many great songs MP's played on!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 01:03:32 PM by Kram »

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30686
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2829 on: April 07, 2022, 08:06:33 AM »
The update I've been waiting for.

Quote
Thank you everyone for your well wishes this past week 🙏 Day 6 and I finally feel like myself again! (and have my Mickey by my side! 🐶) Looks like we should be all systems go for the Transatlantic tour kicking off next week!
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline axeman90210

  • Official Minister of Awesome, and Veronica knows my name!
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13530
  • Gender: Male
  • Never go full Nick
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2830 on: April 07, 2022, 04:00:26 PM »
Whew. I'm still impatiently waiting for the Keswick to start selling single tickets in the pit, right now they're still only selling them in pairs.
Photobucket sucks.

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30686
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2831 on: April 07, 2022, 07:00:31 PM »
Whew. I'm still impatiently waiting for the Keswick to start selling single tickets in the pit, right now they're still only selling them in pairs.
Wow, I didn't even realize those were still for sale. I'd assumed they were all sold out.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59449
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2832 on: April 07, 2022, 07:05:48 PM »
Whew. I'm still impatiently waiting for the Keswick to start selling single tickets in the pit, right now they're still only selling them in pairs.

Find a chick you can mold young padawan.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline axeman90210

  • Official Minister of Awesome, and Veronica knows my name!
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13530
  • Gender: Male
  • Never go full Nick
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2833 on: April 08, 2022, 07:41:20 AM »
Whew. I'm still impatiently waiting for the Keswick to start selling single tickets in the pit, right now they're still only selling them in pairs.
Wow, I didn't even realize those were still for sale. I'd assumed they were all sold out.

There are still 6 or 8 seats right up front, but only sold in pairs for right now. I called the box office to see if I could buy a single and they said sometimes they'll split them up into singles if seats are unsold close to the show.
Photobucket sucks.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43431
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #2834 on: April 08, 2022, 07:45:58 AM »
Whew. I'm still impatiently waiting for the Keswick to start selling single tickets in the pit, right now they're still only selling them in pairs.

Find a chick you can mold young padawan.

Or buy the pair and put the other single up on Stubhub in case there is someone else in your situation. If I wasn't so goddamn lazy I'd do that myself.