The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

[bosk1]

That doesn't change the point, though, that a glaring omission does cast doubt on a statement, does it not?

Yes, it does change the point.  Because there is no "glaring omission."

[eric42434224]

If someone gives "an explanation of what happened", and does not include a very important part of "what happened", then that is an omission.

[bosk1]

Omitting anything, including the number of oxygen molecules present in the room, is technically "an omission."  That does not mean it is "a glaring omission" or one that suggests the person is being dishonest.  You are being unnecessarily pedantic.  People are certainly entitled to believe what they want to believe.  But to parse words and ignore context to the point of absurdity is rather pointless. 

[New World Rushman]

I have no horses in this race, nothing to add or side to take, in fact I'm a bit confused to what was being argued in the first place.
That said, if it helps, here is a link to MP's original post on his forum, which he entitled:

"Mike Portnoy Leaves Dream Theater - Official Press Release"
 

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2585154&mpage=1#2585154

[The Walrus]

 





 

[cramx3]

 

[bosk1]

I have no horses in this race, nothing to add or side to take, in fact I'm a bit confused to what was being argued in the first place.
That said, if it helps, here is a link to MP's original post on his forum, which he entitled:

"Mike Portnoy Leaves Dream Theater - Official Press Release"
 

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2585154&mpage=1#2585154

Exactly!  People should read what is actually said there before leaping to conclusions.  Thanks for posting that. 

[gmillerdrake]

I have no horses in this race, nothing to add or side to take, in fact I'm a bit confused to what was being argued in the first place.
That said, if it helps, here is a link to MP's original post on his forum, which he entitled:

"Mike Portnoy Leaves Dream Theater - Official Press Release"
 

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2585154&mpage=1#2585154

Lot's of comments and posts scrubbed from that thread. I only know because at the time I was literally the first person to post after his Press Release within a minute or two of his initial post.....and went on to participate in that conversation for many of the subsequent pages.

[emtee]

Sort of sucks to re-read that whole thread. I was bummed. Sad for everyone involved. It was the beginning of the end of MP's site so
many of us lost touch. I miss the place but in all honesty, I've been a zillion times more productive in my life since MP shut it down.

No going back now. There is only forward.

On a side note, I specifically remember calling attention to the time when MP gave the interview where he made the comments
about LaBrie. I knew right then that DT was headed for a big change. I remember Wey telling me I was making a big deal
out of nothing. But...I was RIGHT!

[gmillerdrake]

Sort of sucks to re-read that whole thread. I was bummed. Sad for everyone involved. It was the beginning of the end of MP's site so
many of us lost touch. I miss the place but in all honesty, I've been a zillion times more productive in my life since MP shut it down.

No going back now. There is only forward.

On a side note, I specifically remember calling attention to the time when MP gave the interview where he made the comments
about LaBrie. I knew right then that DT was headed for a big change. I remember Wey telling me I was making a big deal
out of nothing. But...I was RIGHT!

I remember there were a few of us on that forum that were calling attention to something was amiss just due to some of the comments and things he was posting at the time....and were warned by Wey many times......and when it happened it was almost like a moment of 'told ya so'....

[Stadler]

'Course there were issues with that too.  That led, in some form or fashion, to his not running the forum anymore.  I don't have all - or even most - of the details, but it was messy.

[eric42434224]

Omitting anything, including the number of oxygen molecules present in the room, is technically "an omission."  That does not mean it is "a glaring omission" or one that suggests the person is being dishonest.  You are being unnecessarily pedantic.  People are certainly entitled to believe what they want to believe.  But to parse words and ignore context to the point of absurdity is rather pointless.

I agree that omitting the number of oxygen molecules present is technically an omission, but the example is silly and unnecessary.   But when giving an “explanation of what happened” and omitting a very big part of what happened (and actually part of why it happened) is clearly not the same as the level of oxygen present in the room.
And I think you know that.
You may not think it is a big deal and that is fine.  Some may think that omission is leaving out something important in the “ explanation of what happened “, and that is an absolutely valid position to take.

[gzarruk]

On a side note, I specifically remember calling attention to the time when MP gave the interview where he made the comments
about LaBrie. I knew right then that DT was headed for a big change. I remember Wey telling me I was making a big deal
out of nothing. But...I was RIGHT!

I remember there were a few of us on that forum that were calling attention to something was amiss just due to some of the comments and things he was posting at the time....and were warned by Wey many times......and when it happened it was almost like a moment of 'told ya so'....

What kind of comments was he making? This is very interesting and new to me, I was never a member of his forum.

[gborland]

The shit hit the fan on the MP forum when the lawsuit surfaced.

[El Barto]

'Course there were issues with that too.  That led, in some form or fashion, to his not running the forum anymore.  I don't have all - or even most - of the details, but it was messy.

I believe that was more of a quiet annoyance at the whole situation that he toughed out.

The shit hit the fan on the MP forum when the lawsuit surfaced.

That's when he publicly rage-quit for about 4 hours or so. 

[Herrick]

Then Herrick is reading something into those quotes that isn't there.

No.  Semantics over whether something is or is not an official "press release" does not make the stories inconsistent.  You are ignoring the context of each statement to grasp at an inconsistency that isn't there.

.

Which you are too.

Not at all.  I am reading both statements, taking them at face value, and giving both sides the benefit of the doubt that they are both telling the truth unless and until circumstances present themselves that necessarily raise doubts about whether or party or the other is not being truthful.

I quoted your reply to Ben_Jamin because I think you and I are talking about two different things.

One quote posted by gborland taken from the 14:35 of the recent interview has Portnoy saying he didn't put out a press release. Portnoy mentioned "a post I made on my website". The other quote posted by gborland is someone(s) from A7X saying Portnoy told them he put out a press release. Then New World Rushman posted link to a thread Portnoy made on his forum which is titled "Mike Portnoy Leaves Dream Theater - Official Press Release".

There is an inconsistency there. That does not mean Portnoy or A7X are lying or trying to hide anything. Maybe Portnoy was talking about another post he made before the official press release thread. Or maybe that was the only thread/post Portnoy made about leaving Dream Theater and the "Official Press Release" was added later on. I've no idea where gborland got that A7X quote from, so that could be completely incorrect.

I'm just replying to the possibility that Portnoy said/posted something that was inconsistent with what A7X said/posted. I think you're looking at it as people accusing Portnoy of lying. I agree with you. I don't think Portnoy or A7X are lying.

I'm Robert Herrick of the Clan MacHerrick and I approve this message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-epMv1f3Yc

Edit: gzarruk, what's up mang? 

[gmillerdrake]

On a side note, I specifically remember calling attention to the time when MP gave the interview where he made the comments
about LaBrie. I knew right then that DT was headed for a big change. I remember Wey telling me I was making a big deal
out of nothing. But...I was RIGHT!

I remember there were a few of us on that forum that were calling attention to something was amiss just due to some of the comments and things he was posting at the time....and were warned by Wey many times......and when it happened it was almost like a moment of 'told ya so'....

What kind of comments was he making? This is very interesting and new to me, I was never a member of his forum.

Man.....it was so long ago.....the thing that stuck out was the social media posts saying how much fun he was having  with A7X. Lots of pics with them doing all sorts of things like water skiing and getting tats together......whereas most mentions of DT the last few years were about how busy they were or how much he had to do.

It’s tough to recall all of the instances where he’d say or post something that just seemed ‘off’. Always something small. I remember he posted a vid of him, JLB and JMX’s kid eating backstage and he made a comment along the lines of “Ive spoken more with Johns kid these past few days than I have to John in 5 years”. Was an interesting insight.

Maybe emtee can recall more....I just remember the feel of his forum prior to the split more than specific things

[Stadler]

Weren't there comments about a band meeting and trying to talk to someone (the implication was Myung) with headphones jammed in their ears?

[SystematicThought]

I had made a thread a few weeks prior to MP leaving here called: Which Member Is Most Likely to Pull a Kevin Moore” and by that I just meant which member would up and leave suddenly. Well, we got that answer a few weeks later. I remember a lot of people here said it was a dumb thread and made jokes, then the thread just got sad. I felt bad posting it and remember I felt like everyone was mad at me and kept apologizing. Someone finally and thankfully told me to shut up and stop apologizing. . I always have to remember I made that thread 10 years ago when I was 15 and treated this forum like high school and didn’t want to be the unpopular one.

As for what you said Stadler, I believe it was dinner before a show where members trickled in and out and there was an implication that a band member (which I always perceived to be JM) came in, sat down with earbuds in and ate dinner talking to no one. MP said that was a moment that stuck out that things needed to change. Because A7X always hung out and talked and DT didn’t feel that way. Which in retrospect, I’m sure bands don’t talk to each other all the time or eat dinner in silence and kind of tune out a bit. I’m sure A7X does that too. It’s a bit unfair of a comparison for MP to do(if he even did, I don’t remember). Of course A7X was close at that time, their best friend had just died, they probably leaned on each other a lot that tour.

[Moor]

Just to make things clear: my original post that started all this has nothing to do with the "press release" thing.

My post was FULLY understood by eric42434224 and El Barto and which I clarify as follows:

In his latest interview MP mentioned being burnt out as the reason of his decision to quit DT and did NOT mention anything about the A7X issue.

IMO this omission affects the credibility of his statement in this interview, especially that we know for a fact that (i) he tried to join A7X and was rejected, and (ii) he tried to go back to DT thereafter with no success.

This issue has always been compared to a marital relationship and from that perspective if I agree with Bosk that the above omission does not affect the truth, I would then have to agree with the following scenario: imagine a husband that applied for divorce and when asked about the reason behind his request during his court cross-examination, he goes through all the house and wife problems without mentioning that in fact he has plans to marry another women (plans that are confirmed by this latter) and when this point is raised the court considered such omission as irrelevant and does not affect his statement. Not to mention that later on and when such women refused his proposal he went back to his wife asking to return as if the original problems have vanished.

Does not that affect his statement? Does not that affect (especially by asking his wife to come back) the credibility of the house and wife problems he listed as the reason of his divorce request?

That is how I see it and how I felt when listening to this interview. With my total respect to anyone that do not agree with the above.

[cramx3]

It’s tough to recall all of the instances where he’d say or post something that just seemed ‘off’. Always something small. I remember he posted a vid of him, JLB and JMX’s kid eating backstage and he made a comment along the lines of “Ive spoken more with Johns kid these past few days than I have to John in 5 years”. Was an interesting insight.

It's funny how I recently met someone who know's John's son and he said the kid speaks A LOT 

As for what you said Stadler, I believe it was dinner before a show where members trickled in and out and there was an implication that a band member (which I always perceived to be JM) came in, sat down with earbuds in and ate dinner talking to no one. MP said that was a moment that stuck out that things needed to change.

Occassionally my coworker comes into our shared office and will just keep his headphones on and work.  To me, it means he's probably got something personal going on and doesn't want to talk.  I let him be.  Usually even if we aren't actively talking to each other, we won't have our headphones on in the office together.  I do think it's a bit awkward if that's how they always ate dinner, but if it were on occassion, I wouldn't personally put too much stock into it.  But then again, these types of awkward moments maybe do add up to make a relationship sour. 

[Stadler]

Look, it's all a matter of taste and perspective.   The idea that all bands are best friends and a "gang of four/five/whatever", went out for me around the time of "Dynasty" by Kiss.  Our friend here related a story - that I've heard variations on as well - that Aerosmith hate each other and don't even go in the same room unless on stage.   There are far more bands like that, than Dream Theater that always seemed to be a group friends, first and foremost.   I can't really blame Mike - given that he's largely made a career out of playing with his "bros" (I mean that in a good way) - for wanting that, and/or lamenting it's loss.  There are people that operate comfortably in conflict zones - as Cram said, "let him be" - and those that prefer not to.  No harm, no foul, Mike strikes me as a guy that prefers not to. 

[Architeuthis]

Something to be said for band members being best friends.  The guys in Rush always said they are best friends and consider each other family,  which is a huge factor contributing to their longevity. They only lasted forty years plus.. 

[cramx3]

Something to be said for band members being best friends.  The guys in Rush always said they are best friends and consider each other family,  which is a huge factor contributing to their longevity. They only lasted forty years plus.. 

Yea, it's certainly rare but I think it makes the fans like a band even more when they know that the band members have a good relationship and the band never changes personnel. 311 is the same way, same 5 guys who are best friends and it feels like it brings the fan base together as there is no drama around them.  Life is not always so perfect though.

[Stadler]

Something to be said for band members being best friends.  The guys in Rush always said they are best friends and consider each other family,  which is a huge factor contributing to their longevity. They only lasted forty years plus.. 

Rolling Stones? 

[gzarruk]

Edit: gzarruk, what's up mang? 

Herrick made a friend


About the "this guy had headphones on the whole time" vs "A7X were hanging 24/7 like best pals", I don't think it's a big deal, honestly. By 2010 they had been a band for 25 years, that's a long time. In my experience, relationship dynamics often change through time, we "get used" to the same people being around us and it becomes ordinary in a way, it's not that we don't appreciate the other person, it's just that we spend so much time with each other that we usually crave some "me" time. Mike, on the other hand, had been in a completely new environment, meeting and interacting with new people and that's always exciting and fresh, so I don't blame him for making that contrast, I just guess he was too burnt out with DT to realize how these things work. Now, if he wasn't that big of a control freak, micromanaging everything (we're all guilty of that on some degree) things could've played out differently.

[SystematicThought]

Rolling Stones are a good example of being honest with each other

Still love the story of Mick Jagger referring to Charlie Watts as his drummer on a phone call with him. Charlie dressed up, shined his shoes, marched down to Mick’s room. Mick answers the door, Charlie punches him in the face. “I’m not your drummer. You’re MY singer!” Just walked away

[Architeuthis]

 

[The Walrus]

Rolling Stones are a good example of being honest with each other

Still love the story of Mick Jagger referring to Charlie Watts as his drummer on a phone call with him. Charlie dressed up, shined his shoes, marched down to Mick’s room. Mick answers the door, Charlie punches him in the face. “I’m not your drummer. You’re MY singer!” Just walked away

 

[Stadler]

Edit: gzarruk, what's up mang? 

Herrick made a friend


About the "this guy had headphones on the whole time" vs "A7X were hanging 24/7 like best pals", I don't think it's a big deal, honestly. By 2010 they had been a band for 25 years, that's a long time. In my experience, relationship dynamics often change through time, we "get used" to the same people being around us and it becomes ordinary in a way, it's not that we don't appreciate the other person, it's just that we spend so much time with each other that we usually crave some "me" time. Mike, on the other hand, had been in a completely new environment, meeting and interacting with new people and that's always exciting and fresh, so I don't blame him for making that contrast, I just guess he was too burnt out with DT to realize how these things work. Now, if he wasn't that big of a control freak, micromanaging everything (we're all guilty of that on some degree) things could've played out differently.

The implication with "control freak" and "micromanaging" is negative, though.  I fully believe that the person with the issue (here, Mike) is the one that either accepts or changes.   But I don't think the value judgments are really relevant.  I think the very best bands all have an element of "control" or "manage"; Springsteen, Joel, U2 (Clayon, business, Edge, music, Bono, stage), I think it's an incredible part of DT's success and a fair reason why they achieved a level of success above their peers.   He is who he is, and always was.  Myung, same.   But in a band - as in a sports team or any unit that needs cooperation, interaction, communication - "introspection" is as much an issue to be dealt with as "control" and "micromanagement".  There's no "value" to them, they are just issues to be dealt with. 

[ProfessorPeart]

https://nextmosh.com/supergroup-bpmd-signs-to-napalm-records/

According to Demmel from a different interview story, they each picked 2 classic songs from the 70's to cover and a wild card tune. There's 10 songs total, covering Ted Nugent, Aerosmith, ZZ Top, Skynyrd, Blue Oyster Cult, James Gang, Mountain, Cactus and Van Halen. So, all these classic tunes with these souped-up, modern-day technology sounds.

[Adami]

https://nextmosh.com/supergroup-bpmd-signs-to-napalm-records/

According to Demmel from a different interview story, they each picked 2 classic songs from the 70's to cover and a wild card tune. There's 10 songs total, covering Ted Nugent, Aerosmith, ZZ Top, Skynyrd, Blue Oyster Cult, James Gang, Mountain, Cactus and Van Halen. So, all these classic tunes with these souped-up, modern-day technology sounds.

Hmm pass. I'll check out a song if I'm familiar with it on youtube, but that's just not very interesting, given the artists being covered and the artists covering them.

[Stadler]

I'm not really down with this either. I might go see them when they inevitably play the Elks Lodge in town, but that's it.

[cramx3]

So a cover band now?  No interest for me on this

[emtee]

If he's happy and pumped about, good for him.

I have no interest in it. Frankly, I'm wondering if MP will ever
be involved in something I will buy.