Author Topic: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)  (Read 317949 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online DTA

  • Posts: 2485
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1470 on: November 18, 2019, 03:04:09 PM »


I'd often be pissed that Des Moines or wherever got a song I wanted and my city ended up with the song I didn't want.
And why would that piss you off? You clearly are not someone who checks "setlists after each show."



I used to. Haven't had to with DT since 2011 though. As long as the set changes from leg to leg, there's really no issues. I'm aware they're doing the same set again, but I'm guessing it's due to being in different markets. I agree that it's lame to keep it the same though. I know we've argued this before and will never agree on this. Changing setlists are pointless to the 99% of fans who will never go to multiple shows. Bootlegs are a different story, but uh, listen to live versions from older tours where James probably sounded better anyway  ;)

Offline zappafrank2112

  • Posts: 396
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1471 on: November 18, 2019, 10:12:41 PM »

NO ONE did it in real time like Dream Theater, and I deeply, deeply respect that.   



Marillion is the standard bearer, IMO

And maybe The Grateful Dead (live stuff)

And Zappa (whose estate is SILL continuing to do it, and will for a few lifetimes probably, hah)

Offline Lynxo

  • It hurts when I poo
  • Posts: 1616
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1472 on: November 19, 2019, 02:07:49 AM »
I feel like one important thing is missing from the rotating set list discussion - Dream Theater did the rotating set lists not only to play different songs in different cities but also to also make sure that the same city on multiple tours didn't get repeats. Didn't catch Root Of All Evil on the Octavarium tour? Then there might be a high chance it would be played on the tour after that.

That, to me, was always super cool and encouraged going to see them on every single tour.
Lynxo cured my bad breath with his penis.

Online MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13550
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1473 on: November 19, 2019, 02:26:22 AM »
But that still happens.

Look at the concerts I've seen since Mangini joined:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2012/mediolanum-forum-di-assago-assago-italy-3bde8464.html

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2014/mediolanum-forum-di-assago-assago-italy-2bc5f85a.html

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2016/teatro-degli-arcimboldi-milan-italy-43f0374f.html

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2017/mediolanum-forum-di-assago-assago-italy-3bf8243c.html

I see a lot of variety there. And I missed the anniversary tour where they played some more different songs. And please don't spoil me the current setlist but I got hints here and there that they've changed it up once again.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43942
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1474 on: November 19, 2019, 06:42:59 AM »

NO ONE did it in real time like Dream Theater, and I deeply, deeply respect that.   



Marillion is the standard bearer, IMO

And maybe The Grateful Dead (live stuff)

And Zappa (whose estate is SILL continuing to do it, and will for a few lifetimes probably, hah)

IN REAL TIME.   

But yeah, Marillion is probably the closest.   The Dead and Zappa are both posthumous, and both take heat for that very fact.   There's a LOT of Deadheads that have crusty, bong-water soaked cassettes of Cornell 5/8 that are m*****f*****g David Lemiuex for monetizing that show in the recent "May '77" box set.  Or the recent Albuquerque show (I think that was the one).   I disagree with that (since the shows are usually released with new sources, in most cases original sources, since a bag of Betty's reels were found and bought by the Archive) but it's a criticism nonetheless. 

I remember the Fan Club CDs were going for like 2, 3 bills on eBay, then the Ytsejam stuff came out and I asked "are the versions on the Ytsejam stuff the same as the Fan Club disks?" and I got a wink and a "no, the Ytsejam stuff is remastered".  I thought that was cool - preserving the value of the Fan Club CDs for those diehards, but making the material available for the new(er) fans who missed the Fan Club boat the first time.   Sharon ought to be taking notes (though I guess she's busy on the View and making sure Ozzy's hair stylists are men). 

I'm still put out by the fact that both Phil Collins* and Peter Gabriel have refused to put out a comprehensive b-side compilation.    Gabriel has probably a five-disk box set worth of b-side and soundtrack material, and some of that stuff ought to see the light of (digital) day.   

* Phil did, because of demand, add a digital-only release "The Other Sides", which is a fairly complete b-side collection, but it's digital-only, which is a bummer for me.

Offline goo-goo

  • Posts: 3177
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1475 on: November 19, 2019, 07:15:26 AM »


I'm still put out by the fact that both Phil Collins* and Peter Gabriel have refused to put out a comprehensive b-side compilation.    Gabriel has probably a five-disk box set worth of b-side and soundtrack material, and some of that stuff ought to see the light of (digital) day.   

* Phil did, because of demand, add a digital-only release "The Other Sides", which is a fairly complete b-side collection, but it's digital-only, which is a bummer for me.

Ahem....some of it is out. It was just released last week...A lot of nice stuff. Let me know your thoughts on what he released.

https://petergabriel.bandcamp.com/music

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43942
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1476 on: November 19, 2019, 07:19:17 AM »


I'm still put out by the fact that both Phil Collins* and Peter Gabriel have refused to put out a comprehensive b-side compilation.    Gabriel has probably a five-disk box set worth of b-side and soundtrack material, and some of that stuff ought to see the light of (digital) day.   

* Phil did, because of demand, add a digital-only release "The Other Sides", which is a fairly complete b-side collection, but it's digital-only, which is a bummer for me.

Ahem....some of it is out. It was just released last week...A lot of nice stuff. Let me know your thoughts on what he released.

https://petergabriel.bandcamp.com/music

You just made my day, amigo.  I had no idea that was coming.

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75227
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1477 on: November 19, 2019, 07:21:45 AM »
Peter Gabriel...bandcamp?
Does not compute.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15771
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1478 on: November 19, 2019, 10:45:04 AM »
I feel like one important thing is missing from the rotating set list discussion - Dream Theater did the rotating set lists not only to play different songs in different cities but also to also make sure that the same city on multiple tours didn't get repeats. Didn't catch Root Of All Evil on the Octavarium tour? Then there might be a high chance it would be played on the tour after that.

That, to me, was always super cool and encouraged going to see them on every single tour.

Another reason I say Dream Theater fans were spoiled with the set lists.

I will always say it. You east coast guys are fortunate to get 2 legs at not-so-distant venues, and choose which one to attend.

I enjoyed that Portnoy decided to do this with the sets. But currently, I'm enjoying the sets DT are churning out.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5246
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1479 on: November 19, 2019, 11:16:27 AM »
Also rotating setlists, that absolutely no post-DT MP band has ever had, but I guess the complaints only apply to DT.
You forgot one detail: in none of those post-DT bands has MP been the band leader that he was in DT, aside from SoA. And in the case of SoA, they were touring behind their debut album, so they didn't have any material to swap in and out of the setlist. Of course, they could've mixed up the covers that they included in the set, but I think it's fair to give them a pass on this first tour. Let's see how things go with their tour next year.

Yes and no. I think you're forgetting Mike always takes pride in "look how many bands I formed, I write the music, I call the shots, I pick the setlists, etc etc". Don't know if this is still happening, but I remember reading that Mike was in charge of the setlists for the Neal Morse tours around the Momentum era, and Neal's prog catalog was quite lenghty and the band quite skilled to do the rotating setlists thing (IIRC, he also picked the songs for the encore medley they were doing on TGA tour).

Sure, most of the bands he's in nowadays only have one or two albums out, but he's always playing covers, rarities, etc, not to count he's in 3 bands with Neal Morse and 2 with Billy Sheehan, there's some potential crossover there. My point here is not to criticize Mike with this, but to point out that the people complaining about DT not rotating setlists anymore and praising Mike for it don't seem to care that none of his other bands have done this, ever. FC played mostly the same songs on this tour thant they played the last time, still no one seems to care. Just my opinion, not a dig on Mike at all.

PS: I'm writing this on the fly, so forgive me if my sentences don't make a lot of sense :lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4560
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1480 on: November 19, 2019, 11:31:05 AM »
Yes and no. I think you're forgetting Mike always takes pride in "look how many bands I formed, I write the music, I call the shots, I pick the setlists, etc etc". Don't know if this is still happening, but I remember reading that Mike was in charge of the setlists for the Neal Morse tours around the Momentum era, and Neal's prog catalog was quite lenghty and the band quite skilled to do the rotating setlists thing (IIRC, he also picked the songs for the encore medley they were doing on TGA tour).
MP taking pride in being in many bands at the same time doesn't mean he said "look how many bands I formed, I write the music, I call the shots, I pick the setlists, etc etc" or anything like that - far from it. While he may have been involved in the forming of these bands, he has *always* made it clear that they were completely collaborative, or in some cases, he was basically a session member not having any say at all.

And he even commented in early interviews about SoA that he wasn't necessarily game to be in another band if he wasn't going to be the one taking the lead like he used to in DT. He made it clear that this was something that he missed and wanted to do once again. So with those other bands, even if he wrote the setlists for each tour, it wasn't like he was able to call the shots the way he did in DT or is doing in SoA. 
 
 
FC played mostly the same songs on this tour thant they played the last time, still no one seems to care. Just my opinion, not a dig on Mike at all.
Point taken, but again, do we know that MP was the one that was calling the shots in making the setlist, or did the rest of the guys have an equal say in creating it? If it was the latter, it could easily be explained that the other guys were the ones pushing to play the same songs again that had been featured on the previous tour. If it was strictly up to MP, I highly doubt that would've been the case.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43942
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1481 on: November 19, 2019, 11:41:16 AM »
It's also a different matter to have rotating setlists with a band that does ten live shows a cycle as opposed to 150 like DT did in the day.   I'm a "rotating setlist" guy but I see absolutely ZERO merit to the "why don't you cry for Flying Colors rotations", because I'm not really a fan of the "87" bands approach either.  I think he's running himself too thin.  I'd rather have the ONE MAIN BAND, with official releases, fan club releases, "Ytsejam-style" releases, and the odd project, than what we have now.   The beauty of DT was it was a band with prog, metal, pop, whatever influences.  Now he's got the "trad prog" project, the "new prog" project, the "pop" project, the "hard rock" project, the "metal" project, the "prog metal" project.... and all the cliches and stereotypes that go along with it. 

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12832
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1482 on: November 19, 2019, 12:06:43 PM »
The only bands he has been in that toured AFTER his time in Dream Theater that had enough material and enough tour dates to arguably justify rotating set lists would be Neal Morse's band, and maybe Transatlantic.  With TA, you have set lists chock full of LONG epics, and not really enough tour dates that rotating would make much sense.  And in NMB, Mike doesn't call the shots and has never claimed to.  So, yeah, I have to agree with Scotty's take here. 
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline v_clortho

  • Keymaster of Gozer
  • King of DTF
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1483 on: November 19, 2019, 12:08:51 PM »
Not trying to argue on either side here but I could've sworn I saw an interview where Neal talked about Mike coming up with the setlist for the NMB shows.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12832
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1484 on: November 19, 2019, 12:20:07 PM »
I think Mike has been involved in that, yes.  But that still isn't the same as Neal giving him free rein to rotate the set lists.  I don't think he and the rest of the band buy into that, for various reasons.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42049
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1485 on: November 19, 2019, 12:31:53 PM »
Rotating on the last two NMB tours would have been nearly impossible since the regular sets featured entire (double) albums played from start to finish.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

  • Posts: 2687
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1486 on: November 19, 2019, 05:15:07 PM »
Not trying to argue on either side here but I could've sworn I saw an interview where Neal talked about Mike coming up with the setlist for the NMB shows.

Neal talks about that in one of the interviews I did with him: https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/life-and-times-an-inspired-neal-morse-discusses-his-new-solo-album-and-his-other-endeavours-for-2018

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1487 on: November 20, 2019, 12:20:06 AM »

Well, that's a personal quirk of Mike's and I agree with you - it was cool and I liked a lot of that about him too.  But is that really so big as to make you like the band less now that he's not there? The other band members can't make themselves be Mike's version of "OCD" and they shouldn't. 

Yeah, actually, for me, it is.  And while you can say "well, Stadler, that's YOU", and I agree, but it's no different than losing faith in a band becuase the keyboard player is more douchey than you'd prefer leading up to an album release. 

I don't agree - that it's "no different."  If you were to say that SoA's music is bad because of a douchey keyboard player, then yeah - that's kind of an issue.  If you were to simply not be interested in investing in it (not making a judgment on how good it is), I'd say that's normal.  It's also normal not to care at all, or something in between.  But the Mike thing, I don't know.  I get that you don't find following them as interesting because they're not Mike, but to be less interested in their music because of it...?  Presumably you already liked their music in the first place.  We're all different so I'm sure there's the possibility of someone genuinely just not liking the songs on the last 4 albums (or the reverse, genuinely only liking the MM material), but I think that would be really really rare.

 
Quote
The point isn't the specific issue, but the general premise that being "Team Mike" (I'm being facetious) is an irrational position to take.   There's a LOT of negative nonsense about Sharon Osbourne, and I could care less about most of it.  What bugs me?  The releases of the catalogue that are incomplete, that leave out songs (in all the re-releases of Blizzard and Diary, "You Said It All" and the live material from 1980 with Randy has never been re-released since the original Mr. Crowley EP, except for "YSIA" on a very rare, very expensive promo CD for Crazy Babies).  That to me is a "fuck you" to the fans.   

Um, I'm not at all up on any of that, but I've heard enough comments to at least ask - isn't Sharon somehow part of leaving that stuff out? 

Quote
I LOVED the Ytsejam releases.  No, I'm not a huge Metallica fan, and so "Master Of Puppets" is sort of a dud in that respect, but it's OUT there, and they DID it.  It's MUSIC.  Not everything has to be for me, specifically, but I can tell you, of my other favorite bands  - Beatles, Zeppelin, Kiss, Maiden, Genesis - there's nothing like it.   The Beatles are now starting to flesh out their catalogue with the "50-year" releases, Zeppelin has been great about putting everything out there, Kiss is, well, Kiss, Maiden is getting there (STILL haven't released the full Soundhouse Tapes, though), Genesis, with fits and starts has finally got most of their stuff out (still waiting for an unredacted live Lamb, and the full tapes from the '76 In Concert) but NO ONE did it in real time like Dream Theater, and I deeply, deeply respect that.   

No arguments there, about the DT stuff anyway.  I think that stuff was super cool, and I own some of it.

Quote
Quote
But there's a lot more than just "let's rawk" posts.  Jordan posts a lot of himself playing live - yes, sometimes using an iPad app, but at lot of times on the piano.  I don't watch every time, but but I when I do it's cool and imo very intimate - to just record yourself playing whatever and let people watch it live.  Maybe it's not him talking about his emotions, but I get the feeling that his expresses those through music anyway.  (Also, you'll get to see a cool cat pic every so often. :))  JP posts a lot of pictures - at one of the venues in Canada, you can see a huge Rush starman which is backstage and fans wouldn't otherwise have known, and he makes a comment about the home of his heroes.  He recently posted a very nice thank to everyone who supported them this tour - including braving the weather which resonated with me having to drive through snow for that last show (both ways, probably up hill too!).  Probably none of it would fill the void of how MP was on the forum, but I think you'd find stuff there to be engaged with - on some level at least.

And I'm not an animal.  I like the Jordan stuff.  I like that connection.  He's long said he speaks through his music, and fair enough.  I actually ripped one of the fan club DVDs, and separated out some of the Jordan material that he recorded specifically for the Fan Club and put it on my iPod.   
Of course you're not - even if you *didn't* like the Jordan stuff.  I'm just saying they're doing stuff, and if you're not on social media, you may not realize it or might easily overlook it.  Another thing they're doing is having fan club activity where fans get together before the show and I've recently read that sometimes band members drop-in, which is super cool, and sometimes people win meet and greet passes or merch, which is also really cool.  I think they're really making an effort.

Quote
Yeah, fair is fair; James sang his ass off in the show I saw.   I was really impressed with the performance, and in hindsight, I view it for what it was - an opera - not a "Dream Theater concert" (that's not a bad thing, by the way, its a positive).  I think you're right, I should give them another shot.

Cool beans.  Next time they tour, we're seeing a show.  :P

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1488 on: November 20, 2019, 12:30:08 AM »
Because of James? I've never heard that. They have been pretty clear n their reason on the static setlists from the get go.

Well, but their "interview" answer was always more official sounding - "we think it makes for a better/more consistent show" blah blah.  But that could leave room for speculation, and I've read/heard people thinking it was to make things easier for James.  And actually I also read speculation that MM didn't want to do it.  And maybe they all just like it better this way because it's less work on them, but I found it interesting to learn that it was specifically JP who is pretty adamant about this being the best way. 


Anyhow, on the rotating set lists thing:  Personally, I don't see the need for that.  It was really cool back when they did it.  But them not rotating now doesn't take anything away from how solid the shows have been.  But that said, I personally feel that going back to an A/B format where they have a steady rotation of just a small number of songs like they did on the ADTOE tour would be a nice happy medium.  They kind of have that going on this tour, where they rotate Paralyzed with Fall Into the Light.  But with it only being a single song spot that rotates, it doesn't feel all that different.  If it were 3 songs or so, it would feel a lot more varied, even though in reality, it isn't.  And what I feel even more strongly about is: I also think that keeping the exact same set list when they come back for a second "B market" tour leg is a mistake.  They are trying to make sure all fans in different markets get the same experience.  But I don't think they accept that, overall, they are probably losing ticket sales because people DO travel to see shows, and those markets aren't really that far apart, and they would get more repeat views if they changed things up a bit on subsequent tour legs.  Honestly, I know this is going to come across as kinda arrogant, but I wish they would make me, or Kim, or someone like us their unofficial tour consultants whenever they are putting set lists together.  I think we could point out a lot of things that, from a fan perspective, they just don't realize. 

I see a need for rotating setlists - a lot of fans (ok me) want them! :)  But I also agree 100% with you that it doesn't take away from how great the shows have been, because they really have been.  I also agree that rotating at least 3 songs would be a good middle ground.  I think you're totally right about the B markets though. At Wit's End was enough for me to come back, but maybe not enough for other fans. 

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12832
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1489 on: November 20, 2019, 07:45:28 AM »
Because of James? I've never heard that. They have been pretty clear n their reason on the static setlists from the get go.

Well, but their "interview" answer was always more official sounding - "we think it makes for a better/more consistent show" blah blah.  But that could leave room for speculation, and I've read/heard people thinking it was to make things easier for James.  And actually I also read speculation that MM didn't want to do it.  And maybe they all just like it better this way because it's less work on them, but I found it interesting to learn that it was specifically JP who is pretty adamant about this being the best way. 

James was talking a little bit about that in Reno after the show, and he seemed pretty open to rotating things a bit.  So, at least within reason, I don't think "making it easier for him" is much of a factor.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34640
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1490 on: November 20, 2019, 07:50:02 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

Online MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13550
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1491 on: November 20, 2019, 08:11:04 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

Yeah, it definitively takes less work to re-learn the lyrics to Octavarium than how to play the whole damn song.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5246
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1492 on: November 20, 2019, 08:29:46 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

Yeah, it definitively takes less work to re-learn the lyrics to Octavarium than how to play the whole damn song.

Funny that you mention OV, because James said a few years ago that he definitely wants them to play that one again sometime. I really hope they get to do it.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15771
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1493 on: November 20, 2019, 08:34:47 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

You know, thats probably why JP likes the static set-lists. He would have to take time to re-learn things, while on the road/hotel/venue when MP decided to play a certain song in a certain place.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34640
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1494 on: November 20, 2019, 08:47:35 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

You know, thats probably why JP likes the static set-lists. He would have to take time to re-learn things, while on the road/hotel/venue when MP decided to play a certain song in a certain place.

I've always been amazed how they used to do this.  I never understood how they could just play some of these songs with all the solos and be pretty much perfect and then switch it up the next day.  It boggled my mind they were that talented to be able to do that.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12832
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1495 on: November 20, 2019, 08:48:22 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

You know, thats probably why JP likes the static set-lists. He would have to take time to re-learn things, while on the road/hotel/venue when MP decided to play a certain song in a certain place.

Yup.  Although they completely faked me out on the first leg of the tour when they ran through an entire song that is NOT in the set during sound check.  I hadn't looked at the set list because I wanted to be somewhat surprised, so I had no idea what was actually going to be played.  There was actually another visual fake-out in the sound check as well, so I ended up being wrong about two songs (and really confused by the time the show ended).
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5246
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1496 on: November 20, 2019, 09:00:43 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

You know, thats probably why JP likes the static set-lists. He would have to take time to re-learn things, while on the road/hotel/venue when MP decided to play a certain song in a certain place.

I've always been amazed how they used to do this.  I never understood how they could just play some of these songs with all the solos and be pretty much perfect and then switch it up the next day.  It boggled my mind they were that talented to be able to do that.

I remember reading somewhere (maybe DTF) recently that someone asked JP if it was eash for him to remember the songs from the catalog or if he actually had to sit and re-learn all the stuff. He said some of it is muscle memory, but he DOES have to sit through it and re learn all the chalenging material.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1497 on: November 20, 2019, 09:08:41 AM »
I don't think the band had to be able to play any song in the catalog at any given show.  I remember reading interviews with MP where he would give everyone a master list of possible songs before the tour, and everyone had to be able to play those.  I don't remember how many songs it was, but it was a defined list rather than anything goes.

Online MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13550
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1498 on: November 20, 2019, 09:12:07 AM »
I don't think the band had to be able to play any song in the catalog at any given show.  I remember reading interviews with MP where he would give everyone a master list of possible songs before the tour, and everyone had to be able to play those.  I don't remember how many songs it was, but it was a defined list rather than anything goes.

Yeah, you remember right, there definitively was a master list of 25-30 songs and only those songs had a chance of finishing in the actual setlist, as one can surely verify by checking the statistics of a given tour. There were changes but there was a definite roster of songs that were "playing" and songs that were "on the bench", with a song not getting into a setlist if it wasn't  capped first to keep on the sport analogy.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34640
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1499 on: November 20, 2019, 09:19:21 AM »
I don't think the band had to be able to play any song in the catalog at any given show.  I remember reading interviews with MP where he would give everyone a master list of possible songs before the tour, and everyone had to be able to play those.  I don't remember how many songs it was, but it was a defined list rather than anything goes.

That makes sense, but it's still doesn't change my opinion on how difficult it must be just because those maybe 30 songs are all so difficult and challenging.  Billy Corgan's tour right now is up to 65 different songs played, but it's solo acoustic.  It's probably much easier for him to pick up some of these songs and swap them in/out.  311 played over 100 songs on their 2016 tour, that I'm still trying to wrap my head around.  They aren't difficult like DT, but they aren't as simple as Billy's but also that's just a crazy large amount.  I don't know how these bands do it sometimes and I can only say it's because they are extremely talented and dedicated.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43942
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1500 on: November 20, 2019, 09:25:24 AM »
I don't agree - that it's "no different."  If you were to say that SoA's music is bad because of a douchey keyboard player, then yeah - that's kind of an issue.  If you were to simply not be interested in investing in it (not making a judgment on how good it is), I'd say that's normal.  It's also normal not to care at all, or something in between.  But the Mike thing, I don't know.  I get that you don't find following them as interesting because they're not Mike, but to be less interested in their music because of it...?  Presumably you already liked their music in the first place.  We're all different so I'm sure there's the possibility of someone genuinely just not liking the songs on the last 4 albums (or the reverse, genuinely only liking the MM material), but I think that would be really really rare.

Well, that's me, at least to a degree, and it's not unusual for me.  I'm a HUGE Michael Schenker fan. BUT, if it's not Gary Barden or Graham Bonnet singing, I'm out.   Literally do not own one MSG record that doesn't have either of those two guys singing.   Deep Purple; the Tommy Bolin years do not exist for me (though, oddly, I do really like the Steve Morse years).   Dio; I have all the Viv Campbell records and the Craig Goldie records.  Couldn't care less about Gus G or Tracy G or whoever is playing (though I will likely give the Doug Aldritch album a go at some point; waiting for the two-CD remasters to be released).  Allman Brothers; if it doesn't have Duane or Warren Haynes on it, I'm out.  Fleetwood Mac; with few exceptions (adequately covered on the four CD box I have) if it doesn't have Buckingham/Nicks, I'm out.  No Scorpions after Herman Ze German left (though that doesn't really have to do with his drumming, it's more a vibe thing). 

It's not that I don't like Mangini; but Portnoy is on my drumming Mt. Rushmore (Bonham, Peart, Collins, Portnoy).  I've written this before: I love how Mike makes 27/14 sound like 4/4, and for me, I don't know if it's the playing or the sound, or what, but the drumming on the last four records just seems so... jarring.   There are songs I like, and the albums are very good, they just don't trigger like some of the MP records.

Quote
Um, I'm not at all up on any of that, but I've heard enough comments to at least ask - isn't Sharon somehow part of leaving that stuff out? 

Well, yeah; I was referring to the stuff about Sharon controlling who Ozzy talks to in media (Ed Trunk always whines about this), demanding that Ozzy get a cut of the Sabbath name (Iommi owned it, but had to rename the Dio band "Heaven And Hell" after the lawsuit; I'm grossly generalizing here), and her part in the Bill Ward thing.  All that is behind the scenes and between Oz, Tony, Geezer, Bill, Ronnie, et al.  Not my business.  But if it's really about the music, don't fuck around with the music, regardless of who is playing it.  When I'm working on my car, or cooking, or driving for work, and I have music on, the lawsuits do not matter, even a little bit. Nor do ambiguous (or not; not looking to re-start something here) tweets.  It's about the notes and words and rhythms. 

Quote
Of course you're not - even if you *didn't* like the Jordan stuff.  I'm just saying they're doing stuff, and if you're not on social media, you may not realize it or might easily overlook it.  Another thing they're doing is having fan club activity where fans get together before the show and I've recently read that sometimes band members drop-in, which is super cool, and sometimes people win meet and greet passes or merch, which is also really cool.  I think they're really making an effort.

See, that to me would be really cool.  I like that kind of stuff.  "Touches" I call them. 

Quote
Cool beans.  Next time they tour, we're seeing a show.  :P

I told you; it's GOING to happen.  Just a matter of when.  :)

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43942
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1501 on: November 20, 2019, 09:26:44 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

Yeah, it definitively takes less work to re-learn the lyrics to Octavarium than how to play the whole damn song.

With a teleprompter, sure.  :)

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34640
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1502 on: November 20, 2019, 09:29:11 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

Yeah, it definitively takes less work to re-learn the lyrics to Octavarium than how to play the whole damn song.

With a teleprompter, sure.  :)

 :lol since that was brought up and I just brought up how it's probably easier for Billy Corgan to do 65 different songs.... he uses an ipad with all the lyrics.  You can clearly see the lyrics in my videos.  I wonder how much he actually reads them though.  Also, Aerosmith had a teleprompter at the Vegas residency show I went too.  I thought that was kind of ridiculous considering how many times has Aerosmith played the same songs.  I captured a shot of the teleprompter in my video as well.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43942
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1503 on: November 20, 2019, 09:29:37 AM »
As long as they aren't rotating in the vocally challenging songs, I'd think he has it easiest in terms of adjusting to rotating setlists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think pulling out crazy solos you don't normally play would be harder than to remember the words and melody to the same song.

You know, thats probably why JP likes the static set-lists. He would have to take time to re-learn things, while on the road/hotel/venue when MP decided to play a certain song in a certain place.

I've always been amazed how they used to do this.  I never understood how they could just play some of these songs with all the solos and be pretty much perfect and then switch it up the next day.  It boggled my mind they were that talented to be able to do that.

I'm with you.  I've been trying to learn Hallowed Be Thy Name by Maiden, and it's not the most difficult song on the planet, but it's fast, and if you have to think even a second in between the sections, the whole thing falls apart.  DT has plenty of songs like that, so it's not like you can take a bar or two off and get back into the synch of the song. 

I have a pretty good memory, but I can't do it; there must be some programming or training to do that (though I imagine writing the songs helps in that regard). 

Online MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13550
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1504 on: November 20, 2019, 09:33:51 AM »
I found that, while generally I'm quite good at remembering many lyrics, my problem is mainly with specific songs. There are songs that, no matter what, I could never get into my head, while other songs I learn the lyrics basically on the fly.

For example I don't think I could be able to ever remember the lyrics from the songs off the Twelve Steps Suite, but I guess I could go through the entire Scenes from a Memory album without losing a beat.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!