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The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

Started by Perpetual Change, December 13, 2010, 04:48:35 AM

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King Postwhore

Meeting Hef in person is even better.  It really is.


Anytime you bash someone publicly not about the type of person he or she is but talk in a negative fashion about a person it's not very tactful.  It opens up debate on your comments.  I think it was worse when he publicly criticized James vocals when you're in the band.  Those are for private, locker room moments.  not publicly for all to see.   
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Volante99

Quote from: Stadler on November 13, 2019, 11:26:33 AM
Quote from: Samsara on November 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
Can we stop with people trying to call "psychoanalysis" foul? (Sorry Stads, not just you.)

No offense taken; it's a legit point (even if I respectfully disagree with it). 

EDIT:  I just read Bosk's post, and to be clear, I'm not trying to "shut down" conversation.  And any interpretation that speculates I'm telling anyone what do to or how to do it is flat out wrong.  I think it's far more appropriate to say that I'm just trying to inject a component into the conversation that considers the sensitivity of speculating on a third party's mental state, or at the very least leaves the door open to the fact that the speculation may be incomplete or wrong.  Saying "it's my opinion" doesn't excuse people from being insensitive or inaccurate.  People are (or can be) complicated, and may (or may not) be consistent or rational in their statements or feelings.  Someone implied in a previous post (might be another thread here) that Mike was a "hypocrite" based on his actions in light of the words of the 12-Step Suite, yet I'm pretty sure the majority of people here have at least one interaction or involvement with Mike that does comport with humility and kindness. I know I have, and I've only met him once for a matter of minutes.

If no one wants to talk about that, so be it.  I'm not going to lose a minute's sleep over that, and amazingly, we'll probably find out that life goes on. 

Quote
What are people supposed to do on a message board, and a thread, dedicated to a famous musician who can't stop putting his foot in his mouth? Just smile and nod? People examine what is said, what happens, and draw their own conclusions as to things. And there is nothing wrong with that -- AT ALL. There is nothing I've personally posted in this thread about MP that I wouldn't (if he felt so inclined, and no, I don't think he ever would) sit down and ask him if given the opportunity.

It's called speculation, and trying to understand the situation. And that's the very point of a message board. MP speaks, we talk about it, try to understand why he does and says things, and then come to our own conclusions about it.

I am sure, at home, off tour, on a Tuesday night, Mike Portnoy is just the same middle age old fart (with a few more toys) like the rest of us. But he's a famous old fart with tons of fans -- fans that actually give a shit about his music, his career, and his life (all of us fit into that in some manner). Why is trying to figure out his motivations something taboo among some of you? Stads, I'm lookin' at you, kid. And a few others. LOL.

It is the very point (well, once among many) of message boards.

It's a hard point to make in any general way, but to me there's a line there somewhere.  And I think the premise isn't about "speculation" as much as it is reciprocity.  Mike is taking guff for, in simplified manner, his negative opinions regarding the performance of a person in his (former) band.  I'm just struggling to understand how his (negative) opinion, based on one or more performances that said singer may have given, and conversations that NONE of us were privy to between the two is negative (childish, immature, etc.) but our (negative) opinions, based on speculation, innuendo and admittedly incomplete information, is beyond reproach?

More specific to your comment, I don't classify some of the statements I'm reacting to as "trying to figure out his motivations"; there are some statements here that leave little doubt that there's no "figuring" intended.  If it was just "figuring out", I don't think I would have posted.

I get that message boards are speculative in nature, and believe me, I love that part of it as much as the next guy.   But when we're talking about a specific human being aren't there boundaries?  Aren't there limits?  Especially toward someone that I know for a fact some of you would walk up to, shake hands and accept that signed poster from?  We're doing a lot to criticize his decorum, manners, and Where do our obligations for same begin?  Or don't they? 

These are honest questions; I'm not making a rhetorical point here, and I'm not trying to be overly critical; many of you (most? I hope?) are my friends and none of this is personal, and I've already said that I don't actually disagree with all of the substantive points here.  I'm just throwing out the idea that there may be boundaries to the "consequences" that we mentioned above.   I'm not perfect, but I try not to do it in the P/R threads, and I think the same thing applies here.   Maybe it's a matter of semantics, I don't know.

For what it's worth, I'm with you Stadler. I think everyone has the right to post their feelings about Portnoy, and MOST of the negativity is justified, because Portnoy does, indeed, say stupid things. But I can't help saying something when I see reactions get a bit overblown or...ugly, for lack of a better word.

Maybe it's because we're KISS fans, where members will write ENTIRE books dedicated burying their former bandmates.  :laugh:

bosk1

Quote from: Volante99 on November 13, 2019, 12:46:37 PMFor what it's worth, I'm with you Stadler. I think everyone has the right to post their feelings about Portnoy, and MOST of the negativity is justified, because Portnoy does, indeed, say stupid things. But I can't help saying something when I see reactions get a bit overblown or...ugly, for lack of a better word.

Well, now see, I can't really disagree with ANYTHING in that post.

Quote from: Volante99 on November 13, 2019, 12:46:37 PMMaybe it's because we're KISS fans

You know, I just knew there was something off-kilter about you, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what it is before this post.  :biggrin:


Northern Lion

This whole thing has been very interesting and entertaining to read.

Here's my take:  I became a fan just after Mike left so I don't have as much invested in him as maybe some others.  I'm not sure what Mike meant by what he said, but it sure sounded like a dis if taken at face value.

Before I became a member of DTF I lurked a lot, including during the time right after Mike left and the new Mike joined.  It seems to me that MP may have a little (or a lot) of narcisism.  Considering he does struggle with OCD, maybe narcisism goes part and parcel?

I worked with a lady a couple of years ago that was a narcisist (in the real sense) and she had to have control over everything including the direction discussions went in meetings.  She was a headache for everyone who had to work with her.

But at the same time, I knew she couldn't help it and I felt sorry for her.  I kind of feel the same way about Mike.

I'm not saying this should excuse his behavior at all, but at least for me, it helps me understand why he behaves the way he does.

King Postwhore

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

TAC

Quote from: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
This whole thing has been very interesting and entertaining to read.

Here's my take:  I became a fan just after Mike left so I don't have as much invested in him as maybe some others.  I'm not sure what Mike meant by what he said, but it sure sounded like a dis if taken at face value.

Before I became a member of DTF I lurked a lot, including during the time right after Mike left and the new Mike joined.  It seems to me that MP may have a little (or a lot) of narcisism.  Considering he does struggle with OCD, maybe narcisism goes part and parcel?

I worked with a lady a couple of years ago that was a narcisist (in the real sense) and she had to have control over everything including the direction discussions went in meetings.  She was a headache for everyone who had to work with her.

But at the same time, I knew she couldn't help it and I felt sorry for her.  I kind of feel the same way about Mike.

I'm not saying this should excuse his behavior at all, but at least for me, it helps me understand why he behaves the way he does.

That's interesting.


And I bolded the part about how I think the band also felt. Bosk says that "calling his bluff" is not accurate, but I do feel there's a part of them that felt relieved.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Stadler


eric42434224

Quote from: TAC on November 13, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
This whole thing has been very interesting and entertaining to read.

Here's my take:  I became a fan just after Mike left so I don't have as much invested in him as maybe some others.  I'm not sure what Mike meant by what he said, but it sure sounded like a dis if taken at face value.

Before I became a member of DTF I lurked a lot, including during the time right after Mike left and the new Mike joined.  It seems to me that MP may have a little (or a lot) of narcisism.  Considering he does struggle with OCD, maybe narcisism goes part and parcel?

I worked with a lady a couple of years ago that was a narcisist (in the real sense) and she had to have control over everything including the direction discussions went in meetings.  She was a headache for everyone who had to work with her.

But at the same time, I knew she couldn't help it and I felt sorry for her.  I kind of feel the same way about Mike.

I'm not saying this should excuse his behavior at all, but at least for me, it helps me understand why he behaves the way he does.

That's interesting.


And I bolded the part about how I think the band also felt. Bosk says that "calling his bluff" is not accurate, but I do feel there's a part of them that felt relieved.

Similar to many divorces one would think.  There is still love, respect, history....but also a sense of relief when its over, cause it aint' workin'.

Don't know personally from experience, but I will ask my wife when she has finally had enough of me, and get back with you.

Volante99

On a note unrelated to "Brazilgate";

I finally sat down and listened to the new Flying Colors release today at work. Haven't been a fan of their work in the past, just seemed very generic/forgettable, like a watered down version of Transatlantic, but I'm really digging "Third Degree". Sonically, the album sounds great. Vocals and Portnoy's drums, specifically. Such a good snare sound, natural and punchy, but not too forward in the mix. Arguably his most balanced sound (at least in a long long time). His playing is relatively tasteful here too.

I would rank this very very high on the post-DT Portnoy albums.

MrBoom_shack-a-lack

We have a saying in Sweden "Klart som korvspad", you can google it but basically I think it's pretty clear that MP miss being in DT.

Dedalus

Quote from: Stadler on November 13, 2019, 10:53:14 AM
And for the record, lumping Mike in with Lennon/McCartney is ludicrous on every level, and that's no disrespect to Mike.  I love Neal Morse, but honestly, I think even having him in the conversation is a stretch.

Of course, I don't disagree. But at least NM is really a songwriter.

Northern Lion

Quote from: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: TAC on November 13, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
This whole thing has been very interesting and entertaining to read.

Here's my take:  I became a fan just after Mike left so I don't have as much invested in him as maybe some others.  I'm not sure what Mike meant by what he said, but it sure sounded like a dis if taken at face value.

Before I became a member of DTF I lurked a lot, including during the time right after Mike left and the new Mike joined.  It seems to me that MP may have a little (or a lot) of narcisism.  Considering he does struggle with OCD, maybe narcisism goes part and parcel?

I worked with a lady a couple of years ago that was a narcisist (in the real sense) and she had to have control over everything including the direction discussions went in meetings.  She was a headache for everyone who had to work with her.

But at the same time, I knew she couldn't help it and I felt sorry for her.  I kind of feel the same way about Mike.

I'm not saying this should excuse his behavior at all, but at least for me, it helps me understand why he behaves the way he does.

That's interesting.


And I bolded the part about how I think the band also felt. Bosk says that "calling his bluff" is not accurate, but I do feel there's a part of them that felt relieved.

Similar to many divorces one would think.  There is still love, respect, history....but also a sense of relief when its over, cause it aint' workin'.

Don't know personally from experience, but I will ask my wife when she has finally had enough of me, and get back with you.

I think you're probably right. However I hope it doesn't happen to you though :)

eric42434224

Quote from: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 07:35:59 PM
Quote from: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: TAC on November 13, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
This whole thing has been very interesting and entertaining to read.

Here's my take:  I became a fan just after Mike left so I don't have as much invested in him as maybe some others.  I'm not sure what Mike meant by what he said, but it sure sounded like a dis if taken at face value.

Before I became a member of DTF I lurked a lot, including during the time right after Mike left and the new Mike joined.  It seems to me that MP may have a little (or a lot) of narcisism.  Considering he does struggle with OCD, maybe narcisism goes part and parcel?

I worked with a lady a couple of years ago that was a narcisist (in the real sense) and she had to have control over everything including the direction discussions went in meetings.  She was a headache for everyone who had to work with her.

But at the same time, I knew she couldn't help it and I felt sorry for her.  I kind of feel the same way about Mike.

I'm not saying this should excuse his behavior at all, but at least for me, it helps me understand why he behaves the way he does.

That's interesting.


And I bolded the part about how I think the band also felt. Bosk says that "calling his bluff" is not accurate, but I do feel there's a part of them that felt relieved.

Similar to many divorces one would think.  There is still love, respect, history....but also a sense of relief when its over, cause it aint' workin'.

Don't know personally from experience, but I will ask my wife when she has finally had enough of me, and get back with you.

I think you're probably right. However I hope it doesn't happen to you though :)

LOL Thanks Man....me too :)

KevShmev

Quote from: Volante99 on November 13, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
On a note unrelated to "Brazilgate";

I finally sat down and listened to the new Flying Colors release today at work. Haven't been a fan of their work in the past, just seemed very generic/forgettable, like a watered down version of Transatlantic, but I'm really digging "Third Degree". Sonically, the album sounds great. Vocals and Portnoy's drums, specifically. Such a good snare sound, natural and punchy, but not too forward in the mix. Arguably his most balanced sound (at least in a long long time). His playing is relatively tasteful here too.

I would rank this very very high on the post-DT Portnoy albums.

While you could argue that there are albums where his drums are too high in the mix, I think most of us would agree that he always does a great job of getting his drums to sound great on record.  I never come away from an album where he plays the drums and think, "I wish the drums sounded better."

Volante99

#1379
Quote from: KevShmev on November 13, 2019, 07:49:34 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 13, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
On a note unrelated to "Brazilgate";

I finally sat down and listened to the new Flying Colors release today at work. Haven't been a fan of their work in the past, just seemed very generic/forgettable, like a watered down version of Transatlantic, but I'm really digging "Third Degree". Sonically, the album sounds great. Vocals and Portnoy's drums, specifically. Such a good snare sound, natural and punchy, but not too forward in the mix. Arguably his most balanced sound (at least in a long long time). His playing is relatively tasteful here too.

I would rank this very very high on the post-DT Portnoy albums.

While you could argue that there are albums where his drums are too high in the mix, I think most of us would agree that he always does a great job of getting his drums to sound great on record.  I never come away from an album where he plays the drums and think, "I wish the drums sounded better."

Sure. I didn't mean to imply he's sounded bad in the past (besides, maybe being mixed a bit too hot here and there). On the contrary, MP consistently gets a nice natural sound compared to a lot of modern metal/prog drum sounds (and I'm not just picking on Mangini era DT, here). And I think he sounds ESPECIALLY good on this album.

Evermind

Quote from: Train of Naught on May 28, 2020, 10:57:25 PMThis first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Moor

Quote from: Evermind on November 13, 2019, 08:38:12 PM
Quote from: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 13, 2019, 03:08:27 PM
We have a saying in Sweden "Klart som korvspad"

Is that one of the new Opeth songs? :neverusethis:

Don't think so... it does not have an "Usch!" in it  :biggrin:

Dedalus

Quote from: KevShmev on November 13, 2019, 07:49:34 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 13, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
On a note unrelated to "Brazilgate";

I finally sat down and listened to the new Flying Colors release today at work. Haven't been a fan of their work in the past, just seemed very generic/forgettable, like a watered down version of Transatlantic, but I'm really digging "Third Degree". Sonically, the album sounds great. Vocals and Portnoy's drums, specifically. Such a good snare sound, natural and punchy, but not too forward in the mix. Arguably his most balanced sound (at least in a long long time). His playing is relatively tasteful here too.

I would rank this very very high on the post-DT Portnoy albums.

While you could argue that there are albums where his drums are too high in the mix, I think most of us would agree that he always does a great job of getting his drums to sound great on record.  I never come away from an album where he plays the drums and think, "I wish the drums sounded better."

It's true. As a rule, it always sound great (except in I&W, but not MP's fault).

hefdaddy42

Quote from: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 11:49:58 AM
Hef, you don't really know me, but I was lurking back as far as 6DOIT, and I'm pretty sure it was a different board.  I don't always agree with you...well most of the time I do....but I must say I truly LOVE how you get your point across so effectively in such short and concise posts.

Strunk & White, Rule 13.  Omit needless words.

"Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell."


Quote from: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 11:49:58 AM
You are my favorite on DTF.org.

Sorry Bosk.....you ban me too much so you can't be my favorite.
*blushes*  Thanks, pal.

Quote from: lonestar on November 13, 2019, 11:53:45 AM
Seems someone else has been drinking that hefdaddy42 Kool aid.... And it's so delicious...
Likewise.   ;D

Quote from: bosk1 on November 13, 2019, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: lonestar on November 13, 2019, 11:53:45 AM
Seems someone else has been drinking that hefdaddy42 Kool aid.... And it's so delicious...

Hell, I eat the powder out da pouch Brah.  Drinking Hef-Aid is for lightweights.  Soon I will cooking it on a spoon and mainlining it.

Then you are almost ready to be inducted into our sacred order.  Almost...
:angel:

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 13, 2019, 12:31:22 PM
Meeting Hef in person is even better.  It really is.
:djhef:
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

MrBoom_shack-a-lack


DarkLord_Lalinc

Quote from: KevShmev on November 13, 2019, 07:49:34 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on November 13, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
On a note unrelated to "Brazilgate";

I finally sat down and listened to the new Flying Colors release today at work. Haven't been a fan of their work in the past, just seemed very generic/forgettable, like a watered down version of Transatlantic, but I'm really digging "Third Degree". Sonically, the album sounds great. Vocals and Portnoy's drums, specifically. Such a good snare sound, natural and punchy, but not too forward in the mix. Arguably his most balanced sound (at least in a long long time). His playing is relatively tasteful here too.

I would rank this very very high on the post-DT Portnoy albums.

While you could argue that there are albums where his drums are too high in the mix, I think most of us would agree that he always does a great job of getting his drums to sound great on record.  I never come away from an album where he plays the drums and think, "I wish the drums sounded better."
Agreed. MP and the people who have recorded him have really good grasp of how studio and live drums should sound. Incredible sound in almost every single release he's done.

noxon

These people are only human, and to hold them to a standard higher than we hold other people seems a bit unfair. Sometimes they say the wrong thing, that can be interpreted certain ways. It's not necessarily their full and whole intention or meaning, and it can be hard to communicate the right thing when everything you do become soundbites to be taken out of context.

I know for a fact that MP tries VERY hard to stay away from the drama. I've witnessed it myself in my own interactions with him. Obviously the split itself was hard (and no, the full story of what went on during the split isn't public knowledge), but part of the problem is people are still going on about it a decade later. And bringing it up at every corner. And sometimes words slip out, or you hear something wrong (which i think was the case here) and you respond in a way that may be interpreted in a way worse way than you actually intended.

If MP hated James that much, would he go on a tour that essentially just copied what James did a short year previous? Obviously there are some unresolved issues, and some friendly and not so friendly jabs, but I think the whole "hate" situation is way overblown. Obviously I can't go into detail as it would betray personal trust, but in my experience this is more like a falling out between friends, where there's still a fair share of mutual respect but also some unresolved resentment which colors the relationship still. But the main gist I've gotten from both camps is nothing but love and respect.

Northern Lion

Quote from: noxon on November 15, 2019, 03:07:19 AM
These people are only human, and to hold them to a standard higher than we hold other people seems a bit unfair. Sometimes they say the wrong thing, that can be interpreted certain ways. It's not necessarily their full and whole intention or meaning, and it can be hard to communicate the right thing when everything you do become soundbites to be taken out of context.

I know for a fact that MP tries VERY hard to stay away from the drama. I've witnessed it myself in my own interactions with him. Obviously the split itself was hard (and no, the full story of what went on during the split isn't public knowledge), but part of the problem is people are still going on about it a decade later. And bringing it up at every corner. And sometimes words slip out, or you hear something wrong (which i think was the case here) and you respond in a way that may be interpreted in a way worse way than you actually intended.

If MP hated James that much, would he go on a tour that essentially just copied what James did a short year previous? Obviously there are some unresolved issues, and some friendly and not so friendly jabs, but I think the whole "hate" situation is way overblown. Obviously I can't go into detail as it would betray personal trust, but in my experience this is more like a falling out between friends, where there's still a fair share of mutual respect but also some unresolved resentment which colors the relationship still. But the main gist I've gotten from both camps is nothing but love and respect.

Very cool, thanks for your insight Noxon.  Could you elaborate on the bolded part a little?  I'm not on the up and up in regards to touring.

KevShmev

I've heard/read tibits about Portnoy and Myung getting into it over something family-related, as well as a rumor that Petrucci and Rudess were receptive to bringing him back a few years ago, but that JLB was very vocally against it, which could explain why Portnoy has such animosity towards him now.  Obviously, those here in-the-know cannot betray confidences by confirming anything, and who knows how true any of the above is, but I think it's been clear for a while that we've never gotten the full story.   And we probably never will.

TAC

Quote from: KevShmev on November 15, 2019, 06:38:12 AM
a rumor that Petrucci and Rudess were receptive to bringing him back a few years ago, but that JLB was very vocally against it, which could explain why Portnoy has such animosity towards him now. 

Wow, I've never heard that.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Northern Lion

Quote from: TAC on November 15, 2019, 06:40:40 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on November 15, 2019, 06:38:12 AM
a rumor that Petrucci and Rudess were receptive to bringing him back a few years ago, but that JLB was very vocally against it, which could explain why Portnoy has such animosity towards him now. 

Wow, I've never heard that.

I knew they both were working to repair their relationship with him (which is very admirable) but I never heard anything like that either.  In fact I thought JP was pretty solid on MM being their drummer for as long as he wanted.  I could be wrong though.

bosk1

I would put a LOT of emphasis on the word "rumor" in that quote.  Nothing like that has EVER been said by anyone in the band's camp.

bill1971

Quote from: KevShmev on November 15, 2019, 06:38:12 AM
I've heard/read tibits about Portnoy and Myung getting into it over something family-related, as well as a rumor that Petrucci and Rudess were receptive to bringing him back a few years ago, but that JLB was very vocally against it, which could explain why Portnoy has such animosity towards him now.  Obviously, those here in-the-know cannot betray confidences by confirming anything, and who knows how true any of the above is, but I think it's been clear for a while that we've never gotten the full story.   And we probably never will.

I hope not to bring him back for good. Maybe as a guest on a few songs.

MinistroRaven

Quote from: Northern Lion on November 15, 2019, 06:13:57 AM
Quote from: noxon on November 15, 2019, 03:07:19 AM
These people are only human, and to hold them to a standard higher than we hold other people seems a bit unfair. Sometimes they say the wrong thing, that can be interpreted certain ways. It's not necessarily their full and whole intention or meaning, and it can be hard to communicate the right thing when everything you do become soundbites to be taken out of context.

I know for a fact that MP tries VERY hard to stay away from the drama. I've witnessed it myself in my own interactions with him. Obviously the split itself was hard (and no, the full story of what went on during the split isn't public knowledge), but part of the problem is people are still going on about it a decade later. And bringing it up at every corner. And sometimes words slip out, or you hear something wrong (which i think was the case here) and you respond in a way that may be interpreted in a way worse way than you actually intended.

If MP hated James that much, would he go on a tour that essentially just copied what James did a short year previous? Obviously there are some unresolved issues, and some friendly and not so friendly jabs, but I think the whole "hate" situation is way overblown. Obviously I can't go into detail as it would betray personal trust, but in my experience this is more like a falling out between friends, where there's still a fair share of mutual respect but also some unresolved resentment which colors the relationship still. But the main gist I've gotten from both camps is nothing but love and respect.

Very cool, thanks for your insight Noxon.  Could you elaborate on the bolded part a little?  I'm not on the up and up in regards to touring.

I think Noxon is talking about the shos that James did with Noturnal in Brazil and now MP has done the shows with them too.

Lethean

But Noxon - we are, or speaking for myself, I am, holding him to the same standard as other people.  If anything I've given him a pass a lot more often than I would other people because I am, or at least was, a fan.  If people hear something wrong or words slip out or whatever, you clarify or you apologize. You don't blame it all on blabbermouth or the fans. You certainly don't let the whole SoA thing happen the way it did.  And it's not just one of two "slip ups" - it's consistent.  It also seems to happen more often when he's about to release something or announce something..  I don't know that I think he's saying stuff to get attention (the no press is bad press angle), but I guess I do think it's a possibility. 

Either way, yes, people are human, but people who make honest mistakes apologize and try to not keep doing it.

Stadler

Quote from: noxon on November 15, 2019, 03:07:19 AM
(and no, the full story of what went on during the split isn't public knowledge)

A fact which, if true (even in part) renders most of the assertions to be just speculation, and have to be taken as such (that is, that they are likely wrong in whole or in part). 

QuoteObviously there are some unresolved issues, and some friendly and not so friendly jabs, but I think the whole "hate" situation is way overblown. Obviously I can't go into detail as it would betray personal trust, but in my experience this is more like a falling out between friends, where there's still a fair share of mutual respect but also some unresolved resentment which colors the relationship still. But the main gist I've gotten from both camps is nothing but love and respect.

Which tells me that statements like "will NEVER" are hyperbolic.  The Black Crowes are now on tour together, after both Rich and Chris said, on multiple occasions, that they will NEVER even SPEAK to each other again.  I don't really have a dog in the hunt of the members' personal lives, but it seems to me that if the stars aligned, the first step - requirement - would be to have a sit-down and resolve those unresolved issues.   Even if they don't "get the band back together", it might assuage some of what we perceive as drama.   

And by the way, it doesn't require that everyone be life-long friends again; that's sort of a fan pipe dream to begin with.  There are plenty of bands that are cohesive on stage but are acquaintances off.  Even the mighty Iron Maiden, who all seem to be easy-going, friendly guys, tend to scatter when the band is not in full flight. 

MoraWintersoul

Quote from: noxon on November 15, 2019, 03:07:19 AM
These people are only human, and to hold them to a standard higher than we hold other people seems a bit unfair. Sometimes they say the wrong thing, that can be interpreted certain ways. It's not necessarily their full and whole intention or meaning, and it can be hard to communicate the right thing when everything you do become soundbites to be taken out of context.

I know for a fact that MP tries VERY hard to stay away from the drama. I've witnessed it myself in my own interactions with him.
He probably does try very hard, but then the other DT guys must be trying even harder, because they are also humans held to a high standard and they never said a word out of step about MP.

Volante99

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on November 15, 2019, 01:16:40 PM
Quote from: noxon on November 15, 2019, 03:07:19 AM
These people are only human, and to hold them to a standard higher than we hold other people seems a bit unfair. Sometimes they say the wrong thing, that can be interpreted certain ways. It's not necessarily their full and whole intention or meaning, and it can be hard to communicate the right thing when everything you do become soundbites to be taken out of context.

I know for a fact that MP tries VERY hard to stay away from the drama. I've witnessed it myself in my own interactions with him.
He probably does try very hard, but then the other DT guys must be trying even harder, because they are also humans held to a high standard and they never said a word out of step about MP.

To be fair; While I don't watch every interview these days from what I've seen, DT probably doesn't get asked about Portnoy all the time. Portnoy on the other hand seems to be asked constantly about DT and LTE. Try as he might DT will always be in the conversation about Portnoy, not necessarily true vice versa.

And while DT has kept it classy and has never been "out of line", I remember in the early days of 2011/2012 of the split JLB made a lot of comments like "oooh we are the best we've ever been, things are soooo smooth now, so free, so relax, much wow" etc etc.
Now a lot of that is probably true and, partly, hyping the latest record. But I could see where that sort of thing could have rubbed Portnoy the wrong way, and where he might consider that a bit of a well disguised jab.


King Postwhore

Absolutely James did that.  That was a year removed. We are still hearing Mike take jabs 8 years later.

That's why people lose it. He still is stoking flames. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

bosk1

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 15, 2019, 02:28:54 PMThat's why people lose it.
I don't think people shaking their heads and commenting that he is out of line is "losing it."