Author Topic: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)  (Read 252814 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1225 on: November 12, 2019, 09:26:22 AM »
Blabbermouth is such a trash "news" site.  I do follow it, as they do report enough stuff that interests me, but their journalism is garbage. 

Sonicperspectives wayyyyyy better

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1226 on: November 12, 2019, 09:29:49 AM »
Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison, as Sonicperspectives really is the gold standard.
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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1227 on: November 12, 2019, 09:33:48 AM »
Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison, as Sonicperspectives really is the gold standard.

The only thing not fair is how poor their journalism is in comparison.  They generally report the same news and info though which is why I made the comparison.

Offline bill1971

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1228 on: November 12, 2019, 09:39:20 AM »
Stadler, once again I will point out that it is possible MP had a benign intent behind what he said.  You are right that we can't agree on what he meant.  But what you have not addressed is, as a few others have said, it just doesn't matter.  It is obvious from his reaction once he realized he was on the air that, whatever the intent, his comment was likely to be taken negatively.  And that being the case, as he has done in the past, he showed a glaring lack of judgment and maturity in making a comment that is likely to be taken that way toward his old bandmates.  He just shouldn't have said it, period.  He screwed up.  Majorly.  Again.  This is a pattern.  And he is losing fans because of it.

Agreed. Plus he had to know they were filming and in a studio designed to record and transmit what you are saying to an audience. It's not like he said it privately to Bumblefoot while someone was filming him in secret. At the end of the day I am glad because i further decreases the chances of him playing in DT again. I am so happy with Mangini and the lack of MP's back up vocals which were just getting worse.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1229 on: November 12, 2019, 09:50:33 AM »


Also, just a gut feeling, but I'm thinking this whole situation could potentially squash any possible 25th anniversary LTE activity in two years.  I can't imagine the DT guys reuniting with MP for LTE after this "annoying vocals" comment out of respect for JLB.  It's a shame.

I would bet money that deep down Petrucci and Rudess know it is not a good idea anyway since it would stir up the "Portnoy back in DT" chatter, which would be unfair to Mike Mangini.  I suspect they will continue to play the "maybe it will happen one day" card for the sake of being PC, while never really giving it serious consideration.

Offline Vmadera00

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1230 on: November 12, 2019, 09:53:07 AM »
Knowing the full context of the conversation now makes it worse (IMO)

So he is comparing a fan getting on stage and not being able to communicate to Dream Theater without the annoying vocals?

At least when we thought it was about LTE there was the music comparison.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1231 on: November 12, 2019, 09:54:25 AM »
Stadler, once again I will point out that it is possible MP had a benign intent behind what he said.  You are right that we can't agree on what he meant.  But what you have not addressed is, as a few others have said, it just doesn't matter.  It is obvious from his reaction once he realized he was on the air that, whatever the intent, his comment was likely to be taken negatively.  And that being the case, as he has done in the past, he showed a glaring lack of judgment and maturity in making a comment that is likely to be taken that way toward his old bandmates.  He just shouldn't have said it, period.  He screwed up.  Majorly.  Again.  This is a pattern.  And he is losing fans because of it.

I've addressed it, albeit obliquely, because I think it DOES matter, at least as regards anyone not named "Mike Portnoy" or "James LaBrie". 

I'll give you "judgement", in the sense that he has to KNOW it will have this reaction, but I don't agree that it's "maturity"; that again depends on how he means it. 

i don't know; I come at this from a different perspective.  I don't understand why it's up to us - a bunch of third parties - to decide what he "should" or "should not" have said.  Maybe you know something I don't; if so, that might change my opinion (no, I'm not asking you to tell).   But I'm just not at all very interested in assuming how other people feel, and telling people how they should act/feel/speak.  I know I wouldn't have said it (or at least I hope I wouldn't) but that's me.  I don't like even taking the chance I might hurt someone's feelings (to the point I largely avoid social media), but I know people, personally, that don't have that concern.  If it's someone they care about, they make sure they know their true feelings, and if it's not someone they care about, then f*** 'em.  Not very Christian, or charitable, but it's how they live their life. 

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1232 on: November 12, 2019, 09:55:43 AM »
Knowing the full context of the conversation now makes it worse (IMO)

So he is comparing a fan getting on stage and not being able to communicate to Dream Theater without the annoying vocals?

At least when we thought it was about LTE there was the music comparison.

I think, Mike himself misunderstood the question too. I think, he also understood "Liquid Tension was good" instead of "the intention was good".
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Offline Herrick

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1233 on: November 12, 2019, 09:57:33 AM »
Seriously? Come on! There are two major FACTS surrounding that statement which makes its interpretation very easy and straightforward:

(I) He asks if they are "on air" and get really shocked when being replied yes!
(II) We all know the bad blood and disrupted relationship between MP and JLB!   

And BTW what other scenario/context might apply? What are you expecting to assume the clear meaning behind such a statement? A signed and notarized Affidavit?

I thought it was possible he was making a tongue-in-cheek reference to all those who don't like LaBrie even when LaBrie was in his prime. Looks like that's not the case.
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Offline Art

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1234 on: November 12, 2019, 09:59:04 AM »
Ok guys, I've created this account JUST TO CLEAR THE AIR:

Mike wasn't talking about LTE, they were talking about crazy fans. He told a story where a fan ran on stage and couldn't speak English, so he just kept saying "please, please", then he got kicked off the stage.
The host said "but the intention was good" (intention, not Liquid Tension), but the problem was the language barrier. Then Mike said that the language barrier is exactly what made it  good, and joked "it's like Dream Theater without annoying vocals, it's perfect."
There was no mention of LTE at all.

Still, there was no reason to take a random jab at James' vocals, even though he thought they were off air (actually they were off air on the radio, but the live video feed was still running).

Here's the full interview: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7nw3js
The part that matters starts at 07:35

Well, after watching the whole video, to me MP came out looking even worse than what i first imagined. There was no context for the "DT without annoying vocals" joke. Without the LTE reference, this literally had nothing to do with what they were talking about.
Plus, Bruno Sutter, the interviewer, sounded like an idiot with his "nobody here understands english anyway" remark.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1235 on: November 12, 2019, 10:00:20 AM »
MP fosters this anti-LaBrie mentality amongst his #MPWarriors. One of his biggest ones, a troll who signed up here and posted throughout the SoA thread (No Filter Loki, his name was) is a diehard fanboy who constantly says terrible things about LaBrie (outside of music, just bashing him as a person for no good reason), and people like that probably feel emboldened by his comments. Mike doesn't even delete those comments or push back on them when they're made on his personal accounts but he bans people almost immediately if they say something that offends him, so he definitely is aware of this kind of rhetoric surrounding him and DT
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1236 on: November 12, 2019, 10:08:15 AM »
If it's someone they care about, they make sure they know their true feelings, and if it's not someone they care about, then f*** 'em.

And this is an important part of the issue.  Because a good number of people (I suspect it is a majority, but even if it isn't, it is still a significant enough number that the point stands) view that kind of attitude as a problem.  If that is one's philosophy on how they interact with and treat others, then a good many people view that is an undesireable/immature/distasteful/disrespectful quality that they don't want to associate with.  And if we're talking about some random person out there, and they choose to live their lives with an "I don't care what other people think" mantra, and they don't care whether others who disagree choose not to associate with them, that is all well and good.  That is their right.  And that is Mike Portnoy's right as well.  But because he makes his living from customers wanting to buy what he is selling, there is more of a direct, tangible consequence to him alienating people with that type of attitude.  And I would dare say he is foolish for failing to recognize that.  He is a public figure.  He has chosen to act a certain way that people find distasteful.  People are entitled to have an opinion on that and to hold him accountable (or, by the same token, to not be bothered by it--but that isn't what we are discussing) and not supporting him, if that is their choice. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1237 on: November 12, 2019, 10:08:52 AM »
MP fosters this anti-LaBrie mentality amongst his #MPWarriors. One of his biggest ones, a troll who signed up here and posted throughout the SoA thread (No Filter Loki, his name was) is a diehard fanboy who constantly says terrible things about LaBrie (outside of music, just bashing him as a person for no good reason), and people like that probably feel emboldened by his comments. Mike doesn't even delete those comments or push back on them when they're made on his personal accounts but he bans people almost immediately if they say something that offends him, so he definitely is aware of this kind of rhetoric surrounding him and DT

Yes, exactly.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1238 on: November 12, 2019, 10:09:01 AM »
You know what I will never understand from MP? The fact that as a grown man, with grown children, simply continues to act like a petulant teenager when it comes to certain things. He is a world class, award-winning drummer, musician, and songwriter. He's spoken of in the same breath as guys like Peart and Bonham -- legendary drummers. But when it comes to Labrie, instead of being the consummate professional, he turns into a very petty and pathetic person. MP should be better than that. He should be above all this. Is it really that hard to pick up the phone with someone you have an issue(s) with, that you spent 25 years of your life with, good and bad times, living out of the same suitcase and bus, and just...talk?

Sure, I don't know the situation, and I don't claim to. But it seems ridiculous that he has this pent up anger with Labrie. And Labrie, to his credit, has publicly kept mostly silent about it. Smartly letting MP look the fool. People grow apart, and I certainly have a few people that I spent a lot of time with that I don't like any longer. But I don't take every opportunity to sling mud at them. I moved on, and if I had to talk to them, or about experiences with them, I'd be civil. It's just what grownups do. Not sure why the 51-year-old MP can't comprehend that.

Edit - someone who wished to be anonymous (whose connection with MP is legit) reached out to me privately to add that MP HAS tried, at least once (the person wasn't sure how many times) to reached out to JLB to mend their differences, but was rebuffed. Again, I trust the person who told me to be honest, and I believe this person. But still, the bottom line is that MP doesn't need to keep saying stuff in public.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:36:51 PM by Samsara »

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1239 on: November 12, 2019, 10:10:42 AM »
I agree with Stadler that context is VERY important here.

However, I disagree with Stadler that context supports this not being a big deal, I'd say it suggests the opposite.

If MP had said something against JP or the guitar playing in DT, then I think we'd all be much more skeptical since he has never (to my knowledge) spoken out against JP or the guitar playing and is, indeed, quite supportive of him. So if that happened, context would tend to cause us to give MP the benefit of the doubt.

But MP has, as has been pointed out, said MANY negative things about JLB and his vocals. Over the course of many many years, several of which he was still in DT for. So, context actually supports this being a bashing JLB thing since it would just fit what has already been well established.

And this isn't a court of law. No one is punishing MP or doing anything negative to him at all. It's a discussion forum and we're discussing our feelings/thoughts/reactions to it. We do not need 100% conclusive, definitive, indisputable proof to do any of that. We have more than enough reason to think/react/say what we want. Will some people overreact? Sure, but that's unavoidable anyway and just a part of the human condition.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1240 on: November 12, 2019, 10:14:15 AM »
You know what I will never understand from MP? The fact that as a grown man, with grown children, simply continues to act like a petulant teenager when it comes to certain things. He is a world class, award-winning drummer, musician, and songwriter. He's spoken of in the same breath as guys like Peart and Bonham -- legendary drummers. But when it comes to Labrie, instead of being the consummate professional, he turns into a very petty and pathetic person. MP should be better than that. He should be above all this. Is it really that hard to pick up the phone with someone you have an issue(s) with, that you spent 25 years of your life with, good and bad times, living out of the same suitcase and bus, and just...talk?

Sure, I don't know the situation, and I don't claim to. But it seems ridiculous that he has this pent up anger with Labrie. And Labrie, to his credit, has publicly kept mostly silent about it. Smartly letting MP look the fool. People grow apart, and I certainly have a few people that I spent a lot of time with that I don't like any longer. But I don't take every opportunity to sling mud at them. I moved on, and if I had to talk to them, or about experiences with them, I'd be civil. It's just what grownups do. Not sure why the 51-year-old MP can't comprehend that.

:clap  I agree wholeheartedly with every last word of that.

And while it is not the most important part of your point, I want to zero in on a phrase you used:  "And Labrie, to his credit..."  We talk a lot about giving people the benefit of the doubt.  There's an unspoken aspect of good will and not making assumptions about people and their motives that is built into that.  I think we are at our best as a society when we extend that to people who may not have earned the benefit of the doubt.  But that's different from a person who has actively, repeatedly, over a long period of time, destroyed any "credit" or "benefit of the doubt" they may have been entitled to.  I can't help but feel that that is the case here, unfortunately.
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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1241 on: November 12, 2019, 10:15:17 AM »
No one is punishing MP or doing anything negative to him at all.

Well, if someone were to stop buying his music or supporting him in anyway, isn't that sort of punishment for his actions?  Seems every time he puts hit foot in his mouth, someone here says they are no longer supporting him.  I get your point on this being a discussion forum, but it does seem his actions have consequences beyond just the discussion here.  Although, I have no idea if such people actually hold true to their words here, but it seems some do (judging from the SOA thread and how many people have commented they haven't listened because of MP/DS's words).

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1242 on: November 12, 2019, 10:17:02 AM »
No one is punishing MP or doing anything negative to him at all.

Well, if someone were to stop buying his music or supporting him in anyway, isn't that sort of punishment for his actions?  Seems every time he puts hit foot in his mouth, someone here says they are no longer supporting him.  I get your point on this being a discussion forum, but it does seem his actions have consequences beyond just the discussion here.  Although, I have no idea if such people actually hold true to their words here, but it seems some do (judging from the SOA thread and how many people have commented they haven't listened because of MP/DS's words).

No, that's capitalism and the free market. Just like me choosing to go to a local store instead of Wal-Mart isn't punishing wal-mart, it's just me exercising my choices. If you quit your job because you want to be treated better, you're not punishing your job, you're just deciding not to be a part of it anymore.

Or to keep it with music, if I don't like the new Slipknot album, I'm not going to buy it (though I do and I did) but that's not punishing Slipknot. It's just choosing not to continue with it, or else everything you choose to move on from is punishment.
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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1243 on: November 12, 2019, 10:27:27 AM »
Yes, of course it is the free market, I don't get the relation of your examples.  We are talking beyond the music here, if people choose to not support him because of what he says, not the art he creates, its a punishment on his words.  Has nothing to do with tastes anymore.  If you choose a local store over walmart for reasons beyond the product/service when you previously did use them, it's youre way of punishing them for something they are doing.  And the reason to do this is to hope they change.  The same reason you punish anyone, so they don't do it again.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1244 on: November 12, 2019, 10:34:41 AM »
I agree with Stadler that context is VERY important here.

However, I disagree with Stadler that context supports this not being a big deal, I'd say it suggests the opposite.


If MP had said something against JP or the guitar playing in DT, then I think we'd all be much more skeptical since he has never (to my knowledge) spoken out against JP or the guitar playing and is, indeed, quite supportive of him. So if that happened, context would tend to cause us to give MP the benefit of the doubt.

But MP has, as has been pointed out, said MANY negative things about JLB and his vocals. Over the course of many many years, several of which he was still in DT for. So, context actually supports this being a bashing JLB thing since it would just fit what has already been well established.

And this isn't a court of law. No one is punishing MP or doing anything negative to him at all. It's a discussion forum and we're discussing our feelings/thoughts/reactions to it. We do not need 100% conclusive, definitive, indisputable proof to do any of that. We have more than enough reason to think/react/say what we want. Will some people overreact? Sure, but that's unavoidable anyway and just a part of the human condition.
It depends on what that context is. I don't know if you're one of them or not, but I'm certain you know there are a ton of people who would like DT, or like them a lot more if not for the vocals. I'd bet that every person on this forum has tried to turn somebody onto DT and gotten back "yeah, but the singer." I'd say that group far outweighs the actual DT fanbase. We can probably all agree that he was the most polarizing element.  If Portnoy was referring to those people, and that's a very real possibility, then the context is very much on his side. It won't matter to most, he's spiteful and petty, after all, but if context matters then that should matter.
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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1245 on: November 12, 2019, 10:35:49 AM »
But I see nothing to suggest that other than people here saying that itís possible.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1246 on: November 12, 2019, 10:37:56 AM »
...And the reason to do this is to hope they change.  The same reason you punish anyone, so they don't do it again.

Not really.  I don't have any hopes of, for example, Geoff Tate changing his conduct because I don't buy his music anymore.  But I find his behavior to be so distasteful that I don't enjoy his music.  So, for the most part, I won't buy anything with his name on it.  Yeah, I guess it "punishes" him in the sense that he doesn't get my money.  But my intent isn't to get him to change.  My intent is to not spend my hard earned money supporting a person whose antics I don't like because I don't want to associate myself with that, and I don't want to spend my money on something I don't enjoy.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1247 on: November 12, 2019, 10:42:37 AM »
But I see nothing to suggest that other than people here saying that itís possible.
Perhaps because they're all staring from the assumption that it was spiteful and petty. Everybody already "knows" what he meant.
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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1248 on: November 12, 2019, 10:51:16 AM »
But I see nothing to suggest that other than people here saying that itís possible.
Perhaps because they're all staring from the assumption that it was spiteful and petty. Everybody already "knows" what he meant.

Well, no. Generally we don't infer things that have we have no reason to.

I've never, again to my knowledge, see MP do what you are suggesting he might have done. I have seen a lot of evidence that MP bashes JLB. So again, I just go with what makes the most sense.

I can't speak for other people, and I'll be honest this event or whatever is pretty meaningless to me, but I need to see SOME evidence of something to entertain the possibility. I can't just make up hypothetical, which is what is happening.

Maybe he was referring to DT cover bands with bad singers? Maybe he was referring to Nicky Spanjaards? Those are just as likely as what you posit. But again, unless we're just making up hypothetical, there's no reason to assume it.

Also, just to make sure my biases are kept in check, I just recently saw Flying Colors live, enjoyed the hell out of it, love all three of their albums, bought the SOA cd and DVD even though I didn't end up caring for either. Oddly, I no longer like DT and barely listen to anything they've done since MP left.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 10:59:59 AM by Adami »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1249 on: November 12, 2019, 10:55:31 AM »
Regarding support, I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00's, and have still bought a crap ton of albums he has been a part of since (DT records, Neal Morse solo, Neal Morse Band, Transatlantic, Flying Colors).  Granted, those bands were either Dream Theater, an existing favorite, or Neal Morse-related, so I basically haven't been a fan of anything new he has done since that then didn't involve Neal Morse.  Granted, it's not my fault that Adrenaline Mob was a generic bag of goat shit, or that Sons of Apollo is well-played blandness, but even though I am not a fan of the guy (as a human, he is still one of my favorite drummers ever), if he released something new that kicked ass, I am sure I'd be all over it. Good music is good music, and I can almost always look past "off the stage" crap and just enjoy the tunes, but I certainly understand if others cannot.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 08:03:50 PM by KevShmev »

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1250 on: November 12, 2019, 11:05:04 AM »
...And the reason to do this is to hope they change.  The same reason you punish anyone, so they don't do it again.

Not really.  I don't have any hopes of, for example, Geoff Tate changing his conduct because I don't buy his music anymore.  But I find his behavior to be so distasteful that I don't enjoy his music.  So, for the most part, I won't buy anything with his name on it.  Yeah, I guess it "punishes" him in the sense that he doesn't get my money.  But my intent isn't to get him to change.  My intent is to not spend my hard earned money supporting a person whose antics I don't like because I don't want to associate myself with that, and I don't want to spend my money on something I don't enjoy.

But if Geoff Tate changed his attitude and released something that could be for your tastes, you still wouldn't buy it?  Obviously, changing attitude is not an overnight thing, it would take a lot of time and a consistency of always saying and doing the right things.  To continue this example, it almost seemed like Tate was becoming a bit more well liked with his performances in Avantasia but then kind of tore it apart with his latest project (forget the name), but if things didn't go off course again and he kept gaining positive momentum, you still wouldn't give him a shot?  Seems like people can always find redemption through hard work on making yourself better.  This is also just one example though.

I'm going to lose some here but "the comeback is always greater than the setback" quoted from some MTV personality  :lol I definitely feel like people can redeem themselves over time, and but it takes a "punishment" in some cases for them to realize they need to change.  Punishing an artist's wallet is one way to get their attention, maybe the best. 

Offline Lethean

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1251 on: November 12, 2019, 11:09:13 AM »
I watched the video from the beginning up to the part we've already seen, and I agree with those saying it just makes MP look worse.  Without DT, without JLB, without his fans, he wouldn't be able to to do what he's doing now. 

Whoever said that he should ignore this and not address it is likely right... But adding to that - just stop saying stuff like this.  Just stop.  An apology would be cool if and only if he comes to it from a place of sincerity and commits to stop the nonsense and move on.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1252 on: November 12, 2019, 11:11:33 AM »
Has it ever been more obvious MP is bitter that DT continues to have consistent success over MP's middling ventures in other projects? The fact that he doesn't care about mincing his words or watching what he says or where he says it says volumes
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Offline emtee

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1253 on: November 12, 2019, 11:32:38 AM »
Maybe more appropriately, DT's success with James
still out in front. Something about James renders his
self-check modulator useless. I'm guessing it was years
of shows where MP felt James did not meet the
minimum standard for acceptability.  I think it burns
his ass as bad as a hemorrhoid  that needs to
be banded.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1254 on: November 12, 2019, 11:40:17 AM »
...And the reason to do this is to hope they change.  The same reason you punish anyone, so they don't do it again.

Not really.  I don't have any hopes of, for example, Geoff Tate changing his conduct because I don't buy his music anymore.  But I find his behavior to be so distasteful that I don't enjoy his music.  So, for the most part, I won't buy anything with his name on it.  Yeah, I guess it "punishes" him in the sense that he doesn't get my money.  But my intent isn't to get him to change.  My intent is to not spend my hard earned money supporting a person whose antics I don't like because I don't want to associate myself with that, and I don't want to spend my money on something I don't enjoy.

But if Geoff Tate changed his attitude and released something that could be for your tastes, you still wouldn't buy it?  Obviously, changing attitude is not an overnight thing, it would take a lot of time and a consistency of always saying and doing the right things.  To continue this example, it almost seemed like Tate was becoming a bit more well liked with his performances in Avantasia but then kind of tore it apart with his latest project (forget the name), but if things didn't go off course again and he kept gaining positive momentum, you still wouldn't give him a shot? 

It depends.  It is a highly subjective thing.  For me, I generally work like this:  I don't necessarily "boycott" an artist just based on what they do or who they are (I mean, given the right circumstances, I might, but it has to be pretty extreme, and that's more the exception than the rule).  But if it gets to a point where it is very distasteful to me to the point where it taints my enjoyment of the music (or other product), then my thought process is more along the lines of having a personal default position of not being interested.  That isn't to say I wouldn't give it a shot.  But it is just less likely that I will.

To go further with the Tate example, I'm not interested in what he does, as a rule.  I'm not going to seek out anything he does where he is the primary person or a primary collaborator.  That said, if something were to come out that really was highly critically acclaimed, my interest might be piqued to sample it and see if it was worth buying.  But I would probably have to like it a lot before wanting to add it to my collection--much moreso than an artist that I am more neutral about.  But then if you take something like Avantasia, for example, that's different to me.  I am somewhat of a fan of Avantasia.  And I think Tobi is able to get something out of Tate to make his performances on the Avantasia stuff more palatable.  So I have no qualms about buying an Avantasia album with Tate on it, for example, even though it is highly unlikely that I would give a Tate solo album the time of day.  Again, I know it is highly subjective, and the lines I draw are extremely murky, but that is generally my approach.

It is similar with MP.  More and more, I find myself my "default" position on him to be moving toward, "not interested no matter how good, because I just find him to be so distasteful that it's hard to enjoy the music."  I'm not nearly as far down that road with him than I am with Tate.  But as time goes on, I find myself just a little bit farther and farther down that road with each passing comment or other exercise of poor judgment of his.  At the time he left DT, anything he was on was almost an automatic buy.  I picked up A7X's album, even though I'm not a fan, just because he played on it.  Now?  Nope.  Now, I'm much more skeptical.  Some of that is simply the fact that I now see more of a track record of him playing on stuff that I don't find myself enjoying.  And some of it is just him being a turn-off in general.  But I guess I'm somewhere on the spectrum in between "I'll check it out and see if I enjoy it and then decide" and "My default is 'not interested' if his name is on it."  I'm still much closer to the former.  But the direction of movement is definitely toward the latter.  And to give a tangible example of that, let's take SOA.  I bought the first album on the day of release, and would have done so even if I hadn't heard it.  I liked most of the music a lot.  I've become so soured on Mike, and Derek, and JSS's childish stage banter that, although I had initially planned on buying the live release, I probably won't.  And as far as their next studio album, I'm definitely now more hesitant and in "wait and see what I think after hearing a good chunk of it" than I would have been before.  If I like it a lot, I'll get it because I like it enough to overlook what MP and Derek have said/done.  But that is a much bigger hurdle than it was at, say, the time Psychotic Symphony was released.

That was probably much more of an explanation than you wanted.  But I find the psychology of all of this to be pretty interesting, so there you go.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1255 on: November 12, 2019, 11:52:40 AM »
Yea, it is interesting and its also very personal in a way, not just in how you interpret someone's actions but your response to it as well.  There's just a big part of me that feels this stuff can be made better.  MP could come out, apologize and show some heartfelt remorse for his actions and spend time acting and saying all the right things that, for me, would help make my feelings about him be more positive.  He hasn't gotten under my skin enough for me to just say no to his work, but it could get there at some point, but I do like to think, I could come around and forgive/support him even if I didn't before.  People can change.  I just hope that the negative response sparks a positive change, it hasn't before and I don't expect it to, but it would be nice if he could turn his image around. 

Offline lovethedrake

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1256 on: November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM »
Personally, I think this is funny and not a big deal at all.

I believe he was being "Tongue in Cheek" but even if he was being dead serious it's not a big deal at all.

He is not in the band anymore, he can say whatever he wants.   He is a GIGANTIC reason we all fell in love with this band and impacted all of our lives for the better and I can't understand why people constantly bash him on this board.

His personal relationship or falling out with DT is probably difficult for him and nobody on this board or anywhere else can fully understand how it feels so IMO, he can say whatever he wants.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:39:39 PM by lovethedrake »

Offline lovethedrake

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1257 on: November 12, 2019, 12:33:07 PM »
If he started a blog dissecting how bad DT's vocals were or even tweeted about it I can understand some people being upset.  However, this was just one casual interview where he made a funny self deprecating dig at the band he started which happens to be the MOST common critique of the band.  It's just not a big deal at all.

The guy drummed on I&W and SFAM.... come on people!

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1258 on: November 12, 2019, 12:37:38 PM »
The guy drummed on I&W and SFAM.... come on people!

And that's cool.  Nobody is criticizing his drumming.

You are right that "he can say anything."  I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.  But by the same token, people "can" feel any way they want about it, including reacting negatively when what he says reflects very poorly on him.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)
« Reply #1259 on: November 12, 2019, 12:37:58 PM »
He is not in the band anymore, he can say whatever he wants.   He is a GIGANTIC reason we all fell in love with this band and impacted all of our lives for the better and I can't understand why people constantly bash him on this board.

His personal relationship or falling out with DT is probably difficult for him and nobody on this board or anywhere else can fully understand how it feels so IMO, he can say whatever he wants.
No one is saying he doesn't have the RIGHT to say whatever he wants.

It's just disheartening and disappointing that THIS is what the fuck he wants to say.

It's known as manners and civility.  Grow up, MP.
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