Author Topic: Anybody still remember search warrants?  (Read 1704 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Anybody still remember search warrants?
« on: December 02, 2010, 09:04:03 PM »
You know, it's not like they can't get them whenever they want, and it doesn't even take much time to get them rubber stamped.  Alas, the FISA court occasionally asked questions and demonstrated some rudimentary oversight, so the process became something to skip altogether.  As long as it's done incrementally and has a hint of national security, Americans will cede their privacy freely.  Here we have the latest disclosure:

Feds Warrantlessly Tracking Americans’ Credit Cards in Real Time

Quote
Federal law enforcement agencies have been tracking Americans in real-time using credit cards, loyalty cards and travel reservations without getting a court order, a new document released under a government sunshine request shows.

The document, obtained by security researcher Christopher Soghoian, explains how so-called “Hotwatch” orders allow for real-time tracking of individuals in a criminal investigation via credit card companies, rental car agencies, calling cards, and even grocery store loyalty programs. The revelation sheds a little more light on the Justice Department’s increasing power and willingness to surveil Americans with little to no judicial or Congressional oversight.

For credit cards, agents can get real-time information on a person’s purchases by writing their own subpoena, followed up by a order from a judge that the surveillance not be disclosed. Agents can also go the traditional route — going to a judge, proving probable cause and getting a search warrant — which means the target will eventually be notified they were spied on.

The document suggests that the normal practice is to ask for all historical records on an account or individual from a credit card company, since getting stored records is generally legally easy. Then the agent sends a request for “Any and all records and information relating directly or indirectly to any and all ongoing and future transactions or events relating to any and all of the following person(s), entitities, account numbers, addresses and other matters…” That gets them a live feed of transaction data.

At this point, I'm really not sure what still requires a warrant.  Among other things, The Man can listen to your phone calls, read your email, monitor what you read on the internet and in libraries, monitor when, where and to whom you talk on your cellphone,  put a tracking device on your car,  track your credit card purchases, track your loyalty program uses, and none of this requires a warrant or a disclosure that they're watching everything you do.  Worse still, it requires no oversight.  It's not like I trust the people who would oversee it, but at least one of them might have some damn scruples.  Kollar-Kotelly had the occasional moment of decency.

Nine years ago a somewhat notable dipshit said that the terrorists hate us because of all of our freedoms.   I thought that was one of the most ludicrous remarks of his seemingly endless repertoire.  What baffles me is how the people who buy into that nonsense think that the way to win this bogus war by giving the terrorists exactly what they ostensibly want.  WTF, America?  I've said it many times, but this is a fucking stupid place.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2010, 01:01:59 PM »
What did Ben Franklin say? He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither? Yeah. If Osama's still alive he's got to be laughing his ass of at us. I hate what our country is becoming in the name of "national security." All for what? This *ENORMOUS* threat of Terrorism and our ridiculous fear of movie-type attack plans.

If they hate us for our freedoms, does that mean they're starting to like us?

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2010, 06:09:48 PM »
If they hate us for our freedoms, does that mean they're starting to like us?

No, now it's probably just some kind of sick contempt.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 06:18:49 PM »
To quote David Cross:

"If they really hated us because of freedom then the Netherlands would be fuckin' dust."

Offline William Wallace

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2010, 12:55:35 AM »
To quote David Cross:

"If they really hated us because of freedom then the Netherlands would be fuckin' dust."
:lol

Offline TL

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 02:24:36 PM »
What did Ben Franklin say? He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither? Yeah. If Osama's still alive he's got to be laughing his ass of at us. I hate what our country is becoming in the name of "national security." All for what? This *ENORMOUS* threat of Terrorism and our ridiculous fear of movie-type attack plans.

If they hate us for our freedoms, does that mean they're starting to like us?
It was Thomas Jefferson who said it, but yeah, it's a really good quote. Very true.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 03:47:32 PM »
No, Franklin gets the credit.  Technically, authorship is questionable, but it first appeared in a book he published.  He does seem to have used the expression, though.  And the original quote is:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."  The more you know...
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 03:05:11 PM »
Fuck.  That's all I have to say about the state of our country.
If anyone in this thread judge him; heyy James WTF? about you in Awake In Japan? Then I will say; WTF about you silly?

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 06:33:56 PM »
No, Franklin gets the credit.  Technically, authorship is questionable, but it first appeared in a book he published.  He does seem to have used the expression, though.  And the original quote is:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."  The more you know...

True, but that said, there are definite (more extreme) cases throughout history in which giving away some freedom wasn't so bad in face of the alternative.  On the other other hand, this is not one of those times, and so the original quote holds here.
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Offline The Texas Pirate!

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 06:16:19 PM »
our rights are being slowly but certanly eroded away all in the name of "safety".
ben franklin is spinnin in his grave for all the rights we are givin up for a false sense of safety. The biggest danger is not any terrorist or druglord, but  from our diminished freedoms, and rights.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Anybody still remember search warrants?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 11:05:19 AM »
So here's an interesting one.  License Plate Readers
Quote
The relatively simple technology consists of cameras, either mounted on police cars or at a stationary location, capable of capturing and processing more than 100,000 license plate images an hour. Plate numbers are automatically run against "hot list" databases of stolen, suspicious or crime-related vehicles, said Capt. Kevin Reardon of the Arlington, Va., Police Department.

Before, officers who had the time manually entered plate numbers. The new technology processes every plate captured by the camera and alerts police when there is a hit from one of the hot lists.

It's interesting because at face value it doesn't appear to be such a problem.  Nobody will complain because it's just accepted now that we have no expectation of privacy while driving.  However, added to the already long list of surveillance techniques, it's another huge step towards the Big Brother state.  As mentioned in the article, it's up to the individual authority to determine how long the logs are kept (picture of car, plate, driver, time stamp and GPS coordinates). 

I really preferred it when we were all considered innocent until proven guilty, rather than the current suspect until proven guilty state we live in now.  Unfortunately,  I appear to be the only one who doesn't feel safer because of it.   

Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson