THE Tool Thread

[Kotowboy]

I think you mean they use D minor pentatonic almost exclusively just with an occasional minor second ( D#) and sharpened fourth (G#)

[ReaperKK]

It really feels like Tool struggles to write good music. Don't get me wrong, the result on the album is normally great, but if it takes 5-6 years to write 60-70 minutes of good material, then that's pretty bad. Most people even think 10k Days has 15-20 minutes of badness, so yeah.
Compare that to The Dear Hunter, that has made more songs then Tool (in their entire career) in just 4-5 years, and it has all been great quality-wise. 

I agree with this as well with the exception of the Dear Hunter, they've made a ton of music, but I think most of it just mediocre, so opinions I guess . . . .

[Zantera]

Well, there are many bands aside from TDH that has been productive and produced quality. My point is that Tool never releases an EP or B-Sides, it's like they barely scrape enough for an album in 5-6 years, and there are plenty of bands who put out 2 or 3 quality albums in the same time.

[El Barto]

You shouldn't try to quantify good music.   They work when they feel like working, and I say more power to them.  As I've pointed out before, they also tour quite a bit.  They're on the road a helluva lot more than DT, despite only producing one album for every 3 DT albums (and Tool's a helluva lot more consistent with theirs). 

[Zantera]

I'm not saying that quantity means good, but I think Tool are taking it to the extreme. 4 Studio albums in 20 years as a band? And sure they tour quite a bit, though I'm pretty sure 90% of it is in the states, which doesn't really help me. 

[lateralus88]

I understand what Zantera is trying to say though. Devin Townsend. Case and point.

[Sigz]

It really feels like Tool struggles to write good music. Don't get me wrong, the result on the album is normally great, but if it takes 5-6 years to write 60-70 minutes of good material

It's not like they're writing for 6 years straight. They just want to do thing besides Tool 24/7.

[Zantera]

It really feels like Tool struggles to write good music. Don't get me wrong, the result on the album is normally great, but if it takes 5-6 years to write 60-70 minutes of good material

It's not like they're writing for 6 years straight. They just want to do thing besides Tool 24/7.

Yeah, I get that too. I'm not saying they should be as productive as Steven Wilson, but it still feels like they're taking it to the extreme sometimes. Album nr.5 (if there will be any) probably wont come out until late 2013-early 2014. 

[Sigz]

*shrug*

[Zantera]

Also, while it doesn't bother me personally, I can see why it did bother some fans that 10k Days consisted of 50% riffs they had played on earlier tours. (not sure if it was in solos or early version of songs)

[black_biff_stadler]

I don't think Zantera's being the least bit petty/unreasonable/etc. They make ridiculously good money by getting to play rock and roll yet seem to have very little gratitude that, unlike 99.99% of society, their passion and cash cow are one and the same. If they all had to go work in factories or fast food tomorrow, they may realize how entitled their actions come across as.

[Ben_Jamin]

As I said they have other things in,their lives besides Tool. Which doesn't bother me at all. Just don't listen to them all the time.

[Zantera]

As I said they have other things in,their lives besides Tool. Which doesn't bother me at all. Just don't listen to them all the time.

Yeah that's what I do and it works fine for me. I don't really listen to them much anymore, but I feel sad for people who are bigger fans than I am.

[black_biff_stadler]

I probably haven't been a Tool fan since around '99/'00 and it's directly attributable to their lack of output. As I said before, I get that they have other shit going on but they're slapping their diehards (not me) in the face by putting out such little material when ticket/record sales obviously reflect a feverish demand. How much time does Maynard really need to make wine no one will ever buy, music no one takes seriously (Puscifer), and recording solo projects under the APC flag?

I don't mean to sound pissy but people use the "other projects, dude!" card way too much. You can write and record a quality album in less than a year, tour for another year, spend yet another year on side projects, and take a month off here and there (far more vacation time than 99% of society gets) and still get an album out less than every 4 years.

[Kotowboy]

I probably haven't been a Tool fan since around '99/'00 and it's directly attributable to their lack of output. As I said before, I get that they have other shit going on but they're slapping their diehards (not me) in the face by putting out such little material when ticket/record sales obviously reflect a feverish demand. How much time does Maynard really need to make wine no one will ever buy, music no one takes seriously (Puscifer), and recording solo projects under the APC flag?

I don't mean to sound pissy but people use the "other projects, dude!" card way too much. You can write and record a quality album in less than a year, tour for another year, spend yet another year on side projects, and take a month off here and there (far more vacation time than 99% of society gets) and still get an album out less than every 4 years.

5 years between album is definitely shitting on your own fans.

[El Barto]

Damn, talk about entitlement.  They behave the way they want to, and if that doesn't sit well with "their diehard fans," then stop being fans, FFS.  It surprises me that people are actually bitching and moaning because Tool doesn't make music fast enough for their liking. 

[black_biff_stadler]

Those fans gave them the money to have the luxury of being able to be so procrastinative. Not that crazy to expect something in return.

[glaurung]

No, you game them money in return for a CD, concert or whatever. Expecting anything from them beyond that is ridiculous. They solicited a service or product and you bought it. End of transaction.

Damn, talk about entitlement.

[Zantera]

Personally I don't demand albums from the artists I'm listening to, but looking at Tool's last couple of years since 10k Days was released, they have pretty much been touring around the same cities in the states, playing a fairly standard setlist with maybe a few songs swapped.
I'm not disappointed in the band or anything like that, because obviously they do whatever they want, and I understand that. It feels a bit weird though, because it doesn't feel like the band themselves has the "glow" anymore. Sure they are still together and they have yet another US-tour now, but they don't seem too excited about making a new record, the four they have seem to be enough, and they seem happy enough just touring those songs for the next 10 years making money from them.

That's how it feels at least. When someone in Tool says "we will start working on a new album", that generally means that maybe somewhere down the road, ~2 years into the future we might get an album, but most likely not.
Or maybe I'm just frustrated because they tour in the states, then another tour in the states, and then another, and they haven't played in Europe in a while, at least not near me. I would love to see them live, but seeing as that won't be likely (unless I go to the states), another album is high up.

[Kotowboy]

Well at least Danny said they start tracking this summer and the official page actually has some rehearsal photos for a change.

[skydivingninja]

No, you game them money in return for a CD, concert or whatever. Expecting anything from them beyond that is ridiculous. They solicited a service or product and you bought it. End of transaction.

Damn, talk about entitlement.

I SOLD MY SOUL TO MAKE A RECORD, DIPSHIT AND...YOU...BOUGHT...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE

[1neeto]

I have to say that I really don't care if TOOL ever comes up with a new album. They have 4 solid albums and a EP that's just as memorable. I think it's time for them to hang up the gloves. They had a great run and have a cult-like fan base. I say mission accomplished.

Signed: disgruntled Tool fan that's sick and tired of waiting 5+ years per studio release.

[black_biff_stadler]

No, you game them money in return for a CD, concert or whatever. Expecting anything from them beyond that is ridiculous. They solicited a service or product and you bought it. End of transaction.

Damn, talk about entitlement.

Whatever dude. Didn't realize the gods had given you the power to decide what dictates graciousness. It ain't asking for a kidney simply to expect a band to do something far easier than nearly any other REAL job in existence more than twice a decade. You're coming off like a Maynard alt account.

[skydivingninja]

I have a feeling that making music, especially good music that won't disappoint the diehard fans that have swarmed around you, would actually be harder than quite a lot of "real jobs."

That doesn't mean they couldn't try to so more often, of course, but they can always go Dethklok route and scrap anything they hate and try again from scratch.  At least people would know that they're trying. 

You're coming off like a Maynard alt account.

Personal attack, reported.

[El Barto]

No, you game them money in return for a CD, concert or whatever. Expecting anything from them beyond that is ridiculous. They solicited a service or product and you bought it. End of transaction.

Damn, talk about entitlement.

Whatever dude. Didn't realize the gods had given you the power to decide what dictates graciousness. It ain't asking for a kidney simply to expect a band to do something far easier than nearly any other REAL job in existence more than twice a decade. You're coming off like a Maynard alt account.

Now now, dude.  His reply was reasonable and civilized.  And more importantly, absolutely correct.  You pay for an album or a live performance.  You don't pay for future works.  What if their next album is shit? Do you get mad because they owed you a good album? 

[Metal]

With the frequency of their output, this seems to add further longevity to them overall as a band.  None of them seem to ever truly get burned out by the process.  I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep going for 10-15 more years because of how lax and slow they do take everything.  Their live shows satisfy the fans, and their albums are typically of a high caliber.  The very thing that makes some fans angry at them, just may be the very thing that keeps this band alive well past most.

[TioJorge]

^ Wise words. I couldn't care less about the wait in between considering I haven't been a big fan of Tool for quite some time, though I still really like them and listen to them on occasion. But I'd much rather have a quality, well thought-out album that's been combed and dissected multiple times instead of a thrown-together, half-assed album that has the markings of men that are worn out and uninspired. That said, it'd be really nice if we could get a Tool album sometime before I graduate college, which has already been put off a number of years and will probably be put off a few more. So...a few years? I'd say it's likely we'll have one by the time 2015 rolls around.

[Zantera]

It's interesting, because my initial post wasn't about them slacking with releasing albums, it was more about how 10k Days came out 5 years after Lateralus, and a lot of it was recycled stuff. Some people love 10k days, I think it's a good album myself, but it has possibly 10-15 minutes that I'm not too excited about, and I know a lot of fans have a similar opinion.

But yeah, I can totally wait until 2016 when the next album comes out, if it's awesome. 

[Kotowboy]

tell me more of this recycled material

[seasonsinthesky]

^ the only actual "recycling" is that "Wings for Marie" grew out of a jam they played prior to the last song on nearly every Lateralus gig from 2001-2002. (the final version also uses that giant thud sound from "Merkaba" on Salival, but that ending was just pasted onto M anyway.)

the others are more subjective/conjectural, i.e. "Rosetta Stoned" using the arpeggio idea from "Third Eye" and "Right in Two" using the atmospheric tabla break from "Pushit".

personally, i think all of the "BOO HOO RECYCLING" stuff is absolute bullshit — especially on a prog forum — but i hardly blame anyone/think they're a douche when we're talking about Tool, who didn't really do the same thing twice until 10kD came out.

[Kotowboy]

Plus the heavy section of Right in Two sounds like 46+2 ... Right & 2

[Zook]

Walked in the break room today and caught the end of a story on the news about Maynard's winery. Thought it was neat.

[lateralus88]

Maynard's whinery.

read it as this. lol'd.

[Zook]

Here's the piece:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7407720n&tag=contentMain%3BcontentBody

[senecadawg2]

When I saw that this had been commented on, I expected some news on a new album  Oh well... Listening to Aenima right now, great song. Lateralus is still the best album though!