Author Topic: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*  (Read 7020 times)

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Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2010, 10:49:15 PM »
If you don't know anything about economists except for the ones that other libertarians have spoon-fed you to learn about, then please don't refer to people who disagree with you about economic philosophies "3rd Graders." That's all.

I'm not an economist like you, but I do survey what's out there from time to time, and rarely, if ever, do I ever see even free-market and pro-capitalist economists suggest Ron Paul's draconian austrian measures.
Dude, what are you talking about?

Let's get this straight because you start talking about how I don't know other economists and stuff. Weird.

You said in response to rumboraks post:
"I do find it convincing sometimes, but never from emindead"
What does that suggest? From what I gathered, you find some of the ideas I'm apparently adept to "reasonable" to an extent, but it seems that when I spouse them you don't like it.

So if it comes directly out my mouth you'll go deaf ears with me. Is that so?

Hey, maybe I got myself lost and I'm completely wrong out here. Could you please testify here so we don't lose more time in my confusion?

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2010, 10:57:38 PM »
Em, I'm sorry. You're not going to win anyone over by repeating the same surface-level arguments over and over again without ever bringing any substance to the table. That fact is, you JUST called everyone who disagrees with Ron Paul's economic policy "3rd Graders," and then when I brought up that most economists don't, you just made the general statement along the lines of "the prevalent economists have failed us," completely ignoring that most economists, conservative and liberal, don't espouse Ron Paul's "solution." Frankly, anyone who even surveys economic discussion from time to time realizes that "Ron Paul's" ideas barely enter the discussion, no matter who you read. I've seen very few *serious* economic studies that recommend abolishing the federal reserve is the best solution, and easy solution, or even an option.

Frankly, you regularly display that you've picked up on libertarian ideas, but I'm not sure you really know what you're talking about half the time.

Offline Nigerius Rex

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2010, 11:27:56 PM »
First Point: "Ever considered what most economists suggest." Who are these economists?

2nd Point: Funny, we have been following the suggestions of the most "eminent" economists all this time and we are still in this mess. Are you suggesting that I should keep listening to them?


I'll answer the 2nd question first: No, we're not following the most "eminent" economists "all this time."

Now, for the first point: If you really don't know who the others ones are, then you have no real reason to fap all over the austrian school. And judging by your 2nd point, you don't, but I shouldn't have to answer the question for you.

In an effort to not derail the thread into a personal assault from either person I ask, who are these economists that attack or refute Ron Paul or other famous Libertarian economic policies and why are their claims about said policies absolute?

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 12:46:56 AM »
The point, NR, is not to claim anyone's ideas are "absolute." The point is to refute em, who doesn't seem to know much about economics outside what he's picked up via osmosis from Ron Paul's 2008 campaign. Frankly, plenty of people on the conservative side would consider Ron Paul's slash-and-burn preference to be the "wrong" answer to the "right" question-- even, I'd warrant, some Austrians!

It's hard for me to point out specific names because, like I said, there's so many, and in contrast to Ron Paul's ideas, some of the other schools like the Chicago school are quite massive.  I shouldn't have to point out what else is out there, really, because I'd expect anyone who'd go ranting about how great the Austrian school is to at least know what the other schools are all about, and be able to compare and contrast the schools, what they are, and what they say about these things.

In fact, while I don't know much about economics as I've admitted, it's pretty apparent that the solutions Ron Paul advocates are far from traditional, or, even "scientific." The austrian school is based, it seems, moreso on verbal reasoning than any hard statistics and scientific analysis, which is probably why it's so popular on the internet. Learning about the other stuff requires a little bit too much by way of reading through (and understanding) statistics and hard, academic, and scientific research. Not so good for us humanities guys.

Offline ack44

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 03:08:47 AM »
I would agree. He has good intentions, and he seems like a smart guy. But, I find him a bit a Piper of Hamelin. His disciples I think also like their position of impotence, since it allows them to go all balls out with their opinions.

rumborak

Meh, probably the same thing with extreme global warming activists making impossible demands on society and waiting for a disaster to hit, all for that sweet moment of "I told you so"  :D

wtf is the internet?

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 08:12:09 AM »
That fact is, you JUST called everyone who disagrees with Ron Paul's economic policy "3rd Graders,"
Uh, no. What in the world, PC! That's NOT what I said.

What in essence I said was this: A doesn't like when X uses X' argument, just because A doesn't like X. But when Y uses the X' argument he finds it reasonable because Y used it.

I'm not a big fan of Structuralism, but sometimes I understand why academics love Roland Barthes.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2010, 08:17:19 AM »
Well, then sorry, but that third-grader remark, combined with you literally posting "LOL" as a response to a couple people who failed to share in your enthusiasm led me to believe you were being a bit snoody about a subject you (probably admittedly) know very little about. Regardless, it's a little bit too early still to pop the champagne, don't you think?

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2010, 08:23:42 AM »
The third-grader remark was just to point the kind of reasoning. It was just that.

The "LOL" part was me reminding how everyone here hasn't changed their mine since the time I was an active poster here in the P/R (I haven't changed my mind as well, of course).

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2010, 08:31:35 AM »
Well, as an extension of that, I'd wonder how many people here actually know something about economics? I wonder how many here have read, or can understand, economic research that hasn't been boiled down for the psuedo-intellectual Thomas Friedman crowd, the "really embarrassed right now we messed up big time" Wall Street Journal crowd, and the "enlightened" sophistry from the necrophiliac Von Mises crowd?

I've tried browsing some *real* economic journals and found them pretty difficult. I'd imagine that for a regular Joe like me, an economics journal is just as difficult as a medical or computer science journal. Not something anyone can jump into. Ron Paul strikes me as someone who's ideas sound good (verbally) but probably doesn't really have a clue beyond the basics. Of course, the understanding of a specialist isn't necessary for a politician, but then again most politicians aren't asking for the same extreme measures that people like Paul and his crowd are.

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2010, 08:52:40 AM »
Universities here do not spouse the Austrian views of Economics. So in the courses I've been taking I've had to read plenty of what it's popular now-a-days. When I'm studying for the exams, I always try to maintain a critical and objective view of what I'm reading. Paul Krugman is mentioned most of the times, and we use his text books for some classes.

In the Econ 101, for example, we started from Adam Smith going through the Classical Liberals to the Crisis of 1929 and why we are now on the Keynesian wagon (typical conclusion, you can't let the markets not intervened). I can testify that people just learn the curriculum, and accept it as it is. There are many things that are similar to the Austrian views, but this is because we are talking about Capitalism.

(Will carry on later, gotta go)

Offline rumborak

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 09:00:18 AM »
Well, you shouldn't judge Keynesianism based on the students who learn it. Because frankly, it doesn't really matter what they learn, since most MBA students aren't in for the science of the field, they're in for the money of the field.
Keynesianism is popular because the totally unregulated market has been shown by research to be too prone to "idiosyncracies".
To use an analogy that I like, economy is like a backyard. You can let the backyard completely grow as it likes, but then you run danger of weed taking over. Now, you can argue that a weed backyard is the best, but I don't think a lot of people agree. So, the Keynesian way of keeping the garden is to let it grow, within bounds.

rumborak
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2010, 09:08:05 AM »
@emindead,

That's cool. I didn't realize you were really studying economics. Anyway, I'm sure it's tough.... Is that your major, or just something your interested in learning more about?

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2010, 06:46:44 PM »
Well, you shouldn't judge Keynesianism based on the students who learn it. Because frankly, it doesn't really matter what they learn, since most MBA students aren't in for the science of the field, they're in for the money of the field.

rumborak
BINGO! Definitely. Most students want to end working in a bank (aspiring to become the chairman of our National Central Bank) or something related.

There are few who want to start a political career. And then are others who keep going, get a Ph.D and return to teach, like our current Ministry of Finance and Public Credit.

@emindead,

That's cool. I didn't realize you were really studying economics. Anyway, I'm sure it's tough.... Is that your major, or just something your interested in learning more about?
I'm a Literature Major, but started studying Econ last semester. But I think I will have to postpone my studies since I'm aspiring to get a Masters degree.

When I was in my fourth semester of Lit I noticed the huge influence Marxist theory has had on Literature; it's the predominant theory today. So, to me, if Marx was wrong in his philosophy, then I should start studying on alternative ways to interpret texts; the unorthodox Literature of Liberty. It's fascinating.


Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2010, 09:49:00 AM »
Neither you, nor Ron Paul, have ever acknowledge that "ending" the fed is pretty much a pipe-dream unless you can get the rest of the world to go along with it.
This point got stuck with me, PC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i4QX67ETTA
@3:08 mark Ron Paul says his opinion regarding the FED.

He wants to a halt to the printing press and wants to legalize competing currencies.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2010, 04:01:31 PM »
And that's why RP will always be kept at an arm's length. He seemingly has no sensibility for what the population would ever support. Or maybe he does, but just likes being the femme fatal since he knows it carries no consequences.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2010, 07:18:20 PM »
And that's why RP will always be kept at an arm's length. He seemingly has no sensibility for what the population would ever support. Or maybe he does, but just likes being the femme fatal since he knows it carries no consequences.

rumborak
Someday people will have to endorse common sense policies...

Offline rumborak

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2010, 07:30:51 PM »
I fail to see how such a radical departure from international financial practice could be regarded as "common sense".
If I were RP, I would try to create a small "try-out" version of his policies (e.g. communal level, or state level) and see how it fares. If it clearly is superior, people will follow suit.
As it stands, he's a bit like a nuclear scientist who wants to try out his pet theory on a power plant running on full steam. And there's 20 rows of people, understandably, keeping him away from the controls.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2010, 07:50:19 PM »
*Ignore this post*
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 09:03:47 AM by emindead »

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2010, 07:59:48 PM »
I fail to see how such a radical departure from international financial practice could be regarded as "common sense".
If I were RP, I would try to create a small "try-out" version of his policies (e.g. communal level, or state level) and see how it fares. If it clearly is superior, people will follow suit.
As it stands, he's a bit like a nuclear scientist who wants to try out his pet theory on a power plant running on full steam. And there's 20 rows of people, understandably, keeping him away from the controls.

rumborak


This is really my feeling too.

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2010, 09:05:26 AM »
https://money.cnn.com/2010/11/12/news/economy/Bernanke_Paul/

By Chris Isidore, senior writer
November 12, 2010: 8:11 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Ben Bernanke has had his hands full since his first day on the job as Federal Reserve chairman nearly five years ago. It's about to get even tougher.

His harshest critic on Capitol Hill, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, is about to become one of his overseers.

With the Republicans coming to power, Paul, who would like to abolish the Fed and the nation's current monetary system, will become the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy.

If you've never heard of the committee before, you're not alone. But Paul promises you'll be hearing a lot more from it.

"It's basically been a committee that's dealt with commemorative coins. I'm going to deal with monetary policy," he said.

Paul doesn't think he'll be able to move his proposal to eliminate the Fed, or to allow Americans to use gold instead of paper money as currency. But he said he does intend to use his new position as "a mini-bully pulpit" to criticize Fed policy and call more attention to what he sees as its negative consequences. And he's confident that American voters are ready to delve into those monetary policy questions.

"Five years ago they wouldn't have listened. Now they will," he said. "We've gained a lot of credibility in making the Federal Reserve an issue since the market collapse."

And Paul vows to try again to authorize Congressional audits of the Fed's decisions on the economy, a proposal that passed the House last year but was essentially gutted from the final version of the financial regulatory overhaul legislation.

"It will never be easy; the Fed has a lot of influence," he said of the audit legislation. "But there's a lot of life to it. We got further along than I ever expected."

One way that Paul will bring pressure on Bernanke and his Fed allies is to hold hearings to give greater voice to Fed members -- like Kansas City Fed President Thomas Hoenig -- who disagree with the current monetary policy.

"Just getting someone there willing to discuss their viewpoint and why they might dissent, I think that would be interesting," Paul said.

A Fed spokesman did not respond to a request for comment for this story.

Some economists worry that Paul having that kind of pulpit will hurt the Fed, and diminish its ability to fix an economy that still needs help.

"From Ron Paul's standpoint, the Fed can't do anything right," said Lyle Gramley, a former Fed governor who is now senior economic advisor to the Potomac Research Group. "He can cause the Fed to lose a lot of public support. But it needs public support to do what it needs to do."

While the Fed policymakers will try to resist pressure from Paul, they won't be able to ignore it, said John Silvia, chief economist for Wells Fargo Securities. And he said there's a potential for that pressure to influence Fed policy.

"The Fed has a more balanced, nuanced position on its dual mandate to promote growth and keep prices stable," he said. "Ron Paul probably doesn't."

But other Fed watchers say Bernanke already faces plenty of criticism and doesn't have too much to worry about from Paul having control of an oversight committee.

"I think that Bernanke has been pretty cool under fire up to now. I can't imagine Ron Paul being someone who could shake him up," said Michael Bordo, a professor of economics at Rutgers University.

Paul also rejects the idea that he's Bernanke's greatest concern.

"He probably just thinks I'm a nuisance rather than a nightmare," he said.

And Paul doesn't think he'll be able to reverse Fed policy or force Bernanke to resign, as much as he would like to.

"I think psychologically, Bernanke is incapable of changing his mind," he said. "It's probably unlikely [Bernanke will resign] under today's circumstances. But you don't know what it will be like a year or two from now."

Paul argues the Fed is making a serious mistake by pumping more money into the economy to try to spur more spending and growth. He predicts it will only lead to further declines in value of the dollar, inflation and higher interest rates rather than the lower rates the Fed is shooting for.

Paul thinks that will bring about another economic crisis that will eventually force Bernanke to resign from office.

"That's more likely to happen than for Bernanke to think, 'Well, I guess I made a mistake for 35 years. I've misunderstood the Depression, and I'm going to change my policy.'"

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2010, 04:30:54 PM »
Quote from: Ron Paul
I'll have a big announcement tonight on Judge Napolitano's "Freedom Watch." Tune in at 8:00 pm ET!
Probably he will confirm this!

Offline emindead

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2010, 06:56:37 PM »
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 10:52:26 PM by emindead »

Offline William Wallace

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2010, 12:59:19 AM »
I fail to see how such a radical departure from international financial practice could be regarded as "common sense".
If I were RP, I would try to create a small "try-out" version of his policies (e.g. communal level, or state level) and see how it fares. If it clearly is superior, people will follow suit.
As it stands, he's a bit like a nuclear scientist who wants to try out his pet theory on a power plant running on full steam. And there's 20 rows of people, understandably, keeping him away from the controls.

rumborak

I've never bought the quackery argument when applied to Ron Paul. Even before I became one of the libertarian faithful and stopped thinking critically, I always appreciated the guy. It takes a cunning politician to give his ow party the middle finger for 30 years and manage to remain in elected office. In the context of monetary policy, I think he understands the system he is trying to dismantle, based on reading a few of his books and watching him go back and forth with Bernanke in committee hearings. 

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight?
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2010, 07:22:34 AM »
I fail to see how such a radical departure from international financial practice could be regarded as "common sense".
If I were RP, I would try to create a small "try-out" version of his policies (e.g. communal level, or state level) and see how it fares. If it clearly is superior, people will follow suit.
As it stands, he's a bit like a nuclear scientist who wants to try out his pet theory on a power plant running on full steam. And there's 20 rows of people, understandably, keeping him away from the controls.

rumborak

I've never bought the quackery argument when applied to Ron Paul. Even before I became one of the libertarian faithful and stopped thinking critically, I always appreciated the guy. It takes a cunning politician to give his ow party the middle finger for 30 years and manage to remain in elected office. In the context of monetary policy, I think he understands the system he is trying to dismantle, based on reading a few of his books and watching him go back and forth with Bernanke in committee hearings. 

If you think he's just been giving the GOP the middle finger for 30 years then I think you've been sadly misinformed. Yes, he does seem to stray from what is considered normal by GOP standards, but if he didn't comply with any of them, he would never have been re-elected. He needs that GOP money

Offline rumborak

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2010, 09:34:42 PM »
I honestly think Paul's promotion is going to work against him. It's been all fun and games up till now, meaning he could state his crazy ideas with no consequences whatsoever. Now he either has to tone down, or be put on the corner.

rumborak
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Offline William Wallace

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2010, 10:45:11 PM »
I honestly think Paul's promotion is going to work against him. It's been all fun and games up till now, meaning he could state his crazy ideas with no consequences whatsoever. Now he either has to tone down, or be put on the corner.

rumborak
It won't happen. A lot of his support comes from the "crazy" wing of the political spectrum. Practically speaking, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for him to back down.

Online Adami

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2010, 10:51:15 PM »
I'm curious who the Libertarians will blame when RP can't end up changing much for the better.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2010, 11:03:42 PM »
The big machine, as usual. It's the ideal situation for conspiracy theory, where both positive and negative result confirm your theory.

rumborak
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Offline William Wallace

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2010, 11:12:48 PM »
The big machine, as usual. It's the ideal situation for conspiracy theory, where both positive and negative result confirm your theory.

rumborak
Who's pushing a conspiracy? I'd like to know exactly what it is; all I see is a disagreement over monetary policy. And I don't expect that he will be able to make massive changes alone. But he will be an irritant to people like Bernanke, and he'll help keep the issue in the spotlight. That's where the real change will come from.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2010, 12:06:17 AM »
I'm curious to see where RP will go with this. I think he already realized that the Fed isn't just something that can be "immediately" ended, but I'm expecting him to try and win some small battles where he can. I'm still not convinced that ending the Fed would be better than regulating what the fed tries to do, but I am interesting in seeing whether and what direction RP will try to push.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Ron Paul In Charge of Federal Reserve Oversight *Confirmed*
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2010, 04:19:25 AM »
I'm really happy about Republican dominance, for more nefarious reasons. :lol
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As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
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