Condoms (NSFW)

[bosk1]

Isn't sensory gratification an ego need rather than a body need?

Why does the distinction even matter?  Neither is, in and of itself, wrong or immoral.  

It matters in finding the truth here. Is it spirit or is it flesh and thus out of align with spirit.

Depends.  Gratifying the flesh is only sin when done in a way that is forbidden.  For example, eating fulfilling a fleshly desire, but is not sin.  Misusing that desire to eat is, in some circumstances, sin (e.g. gluttony, or a Jew breaking the Jewish dietary laws, or committing to a fast and then breaking that vow).  Sex is the same.  It is clearly a fleshly desire, but fullfilling that desire in the proper manner is not sinful and in fact has God's complete blessing.

I see the point in your earlier post that there may be a stigma.  But whether there is a perceived or actual social stigma associated with something based on the fact that some people abuse it is not enough to make the practice wrong or immoral.

[bosk1]

Frankly, it's fun to have sex before breakfast. And it's fun to have sex in the shower. It's fun to have sex in all kinds of places and all kinds of times. Because you love the girl you're doing it with, and you feel you're sharing something special with her.

I couldn't agree more.  (But I feel compelled to point out that you might want to look into getting a new bedframe)

[rumborak]

I actually have one of those Japanese low-profile solid-wood bedframes. You'd have to be Andre the Giant to make that thing move with your motions

rumborak

[bosk1]

Who says I'm not?  

(and, BTW, I refer to it as "Little Andre")

[rumborak]

Whatever you say .... Bosky the Bulldozer.



rumborak

[bosk1]

Bosky the Bulldozer.

I'll see what my wife thinks of that one. 

[eric42434224]

Holy Shit, I understand being concerned about things in life, but I just cant comprehend what life must be like when you worry about, question, analyze, and pick apart EVERY THING.  You are going to be 35 years old, and look back and suddenly realize you spent your entire youth analyzing life instead of living it.

[rumborak]

Especially when I have the impression that some of the key posters in this thread only have ... hmmm.... "academic insight" into the matter.

rumborak

[AndyDT]

Isn't sensory gratification an ego need rather than a body need?

Why does the distinction even matter?  Neither is, in and of itself, wrong or immoral.  

It matters in finding the truth here. Is it spirit or is it flesh and thus out of align with spirit.

Depends.  Gratifying the flesh is only sin when done in a way that is forbidden.  For example, eating fulfilling a fleshly desire, but is not sin.  Misusing that desire to eat is, in some circumstances, sin (e.g. gluttony, or a Jew breaking the Jewish dietary laws, or committing to a fast and then breaking that vow).  Sex is the same.  It is clearly a fleshly desire, but fullfilling that desire in the proper manner is not sinful and in fact has God's complete blessing.

It's not a flesh need though AFAIK whereas food is.

Benjamin Franlkin said rarely commit venery except for health or reproduction.

I see the point in your earlier post that there may be a stigma.  But whether there is a perceived or actual social stigma associated with something based on the fact that some people abuse it is not enough to make the practice wrong or immoral.

What about the signal you send out by buying condoms publicly? That's a factor drilled home by christianity. This is what I mean by buying it with the groceries - some unspoken cultural recognition of it being the civilised thing to do (and that's probably been influenced by christianity in our countries like it or not). I never saw my parents talk or even suggest sex let alone give any indication they practised it.

[rumborak]

Andy, have you considered the sobering fact that the most likely thought of a cashier upon seeing your condom purchase is either

"I really should have finished college"

or

"Lol, that guy looks he's gonna have a heart attack because he's buying condoms. God do I not give a shit."

rumborak

[7StringedBeast]

Andy, have you considered the sobering fact that the most likely thought of a cashier upon seeing your condom purchase is either

"I really should have finished college"

or

"Lol, that guy looks he's gonna have a heart attack because he's buying condoms. God do I not give a shit."

rumborak

Or. damnit I wish I was getting some

[bosk1]

Benjamin Franlkin said rarely commit venery except for health or reproduction.

Why should I care what Benjamin Franklin has to say on the subject?

What about the signal you send out by buying condoms publicly?

Given the wedding ring on my finger, I'm probably sending one of two signals:  (1) I enjoy sex with my wife, and given that I'm buying the jumbo box, I enjoy it often and I think I may go for it after I cook up these lamb chops and greens, which incidentally I would prefer bagged separately if you please, madam; or (2) I'm cheating on my wife.  If the supermarket clerk happens to think the latter, that's their problem.  If the former, they would be correct and I have no problem with that.

That's a factor drilled home by christianity.

I have no idea what you mean by that.

I never saw my parents talk or even suggest sex let alone give any indication they practised it.

Well, as far as the intimate details, they shouldn't have shared it with you because it is not your business.  There is such a thing as discretion, and it is, IMO, not appropriate to share the details of your sex life with anyone unless there is a specific reason to.  And there would never be a good reason to do so with your children.

As far as them not talking with you about it in general, that's just odd.  Again, I'm not suggesting that it would be appropriate to share the details.  But I think it would be unealthy for them, as your parents, they should assume the role of your primary teachers and role models, and should teach you about sex and, without sharing the specific details of their sex lives, let you know that it is part of a healthy marriage relationship.  I hope to be able to talk openly with my children when they are of an appropriate age so that they will trust me enough to talk to me when they have questions/issues.  I think that's part of a healthy relationship.  It doesn't mean our sex life is out in the open for discussion among the family.  It is to be kept private and discreet.  But we also aren't going to pretend like it doesn't exist either.  But as far as the specific issue of condoms and the like, I also wouldn't go shopping for them with the kids present either because I just don't think that's appropriate.  

[Implode]

Benjamin Franlkin said rarely commit venery except for health or reproduction.

The irony is that Ben was far from keeping that advise.

[hefdaddy42]

The only people who teach "no contraceptives" are the Catholics, for whom every sperm is sacred, indeed.  Protestants don't buy that crap.

What an ignorant generalization.

Ignorant? My understanding was that it was a Catholic teaching as well. Unless I'm ignorant too.

What I think Hef meant was that the organization as a WHOLE is the only one that does it. I'm sure there are protestant churches out there who preach the same thing, but as a whole it doesn't.

It's not JUST Catholics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_contraception


Also read the part about dissent in the Catholic section. I stand by what I said. 

You're right, I forgot about the Amish.  WTF

Dissent in the Catholic church has nothing whatsoever to do with what the official position of the Church is.

Every other group listed in that article either doesn't take a position one way or the other or has some wiggle room that allows contraception.  Did you even read it?

[Perpetual Change]

Frankly, it's fun to have sex before breakfast. And it's fun to have sex in the shower. It's fun to have sex in all kinds of places and all kinds of times. Because you love the girl you're doing it with, and you feel you're sharing something special with her.

I couldn't agree more.  (But I feel compelled to point out that you might want to look into getting a new bedframe)

I actually have one of those Japanese low-profile solid-wood bedframes. You'd have to be Andre the Giant to make that thing move with your motions

rumborak

Who says I'm not? 

(and, BTW, I refer to it as "Little Andre")

Whatever you say .... Bosky the Bulldozer.



rumborak

::backs away slowly::

::runs::

[AndyDT]

Benjamin Franlkin said rarely commit venery except for health or reproduction.

Why should I care what Benjamin Franklin has to say on the subject?

It makes a lot more sense to me than a lot of what I'm hearing here. And he's talking about sowing to the flesh from what I can see.

What about the signal you send out by buying condoms publicly?

Given the wedding ring on my finger, I'm probably sending one of two signals:  (1) I enjoy sex with my wife, and given that I'm buying the jumbo box, I enjoy it often and I think I may go for it after I cook up these lamb chops and greens, which incidentally I would prefer bagged separately if you please, madam; or (2) I'm cheating on my wife.  If the supermarket clerk happens to think the latter, that's their problem.  If the former, they would be correct and I have no problem with that.

That's a factor drilled home by christianity.

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Paul talks about letting others see your conduct, Jesus about being a light. You're talking about buying jumbo boxes as if doing things with abandon. You spend a lot of time promoting christianity on here and how can others respect it when they're told something is forbidden by God at one point then allowed with abandon after another? We're sowing to the flesh one minute then when married treating each other like objects, idolising sex and turning it into a selfish, self-gratifying device. It's like saying "you can have limitless sex but only if you do what I say, join us".

Also, where's the mental and spiritual development from what you seem to be saying about living with abandon when married?

I instinctively agree with the idea that sex after marriage is sensible for various reasons including thsoe that christians cite; but to do that because God supposedly decrees it, and I dont believe he does "decree" that, stinks like a man-made control device rather than God interested in your development.

I never saw my parents talk or even suggest sex let alone give any indication they practised it.

Well, as far as the intimate details, they shouldn't have shared it with you because it is not your business.  There is such a thing as discretion, and it is, IMO, not appropriate to share the details of your sex life with anyone unless there is a specific reason to.  And there would never be a good reason to do so with your children.

As far as them not talking with you about it in general, that's just odd.  Again, I'm not suggesting that it would be appropriate to share the details.  But I think it would be unealthy for them, as your parents, they should assume the role of your primary teachers and role models, and should teach you about sex and, without sharing the specific details of their sex lives, let you know that it is part of a healthy marriage relationship.  I hope to be able to talk openly with my children when they are of an appropriate age so that they will trust me enough to talk to me when they have questions/issues.  I think that's part of a healthy relationship.  It doesn't mean our sex life is out in the open for discussion among the family.  It is to be kept private and discreet.  But we also aren't going to pretend like it doesn't exist either.  But as far as the specific issue of condoms and the like, I also wouldn't go shopping for them with the kids present either because I just don't think that's appropriate.  

It's fair to say the effect has been that relationships and sex have seemed superfluous but that's my issue to deal with now not my parents; see above for my thoughts.

[Perpetual Change]

Paul says a lot of things about sex and relationships.

I actually can't wait until we get to the part of the Bible in the yearly reading, because if I remember correctly when it comes to relationships Paul is almost wrong about everything.

[hefdaddy42]

Andy, I officially have no clue what the hell you are talking about or what your hangup is. 

[bosk1]

What about the signal you send out by buying condoms publicly?

Given the wedding ring on my finger, I'm probably sending one of two signals:  (1) I enjoy sex with my wife, and given that I'm buying the jumbo box, I enjoy it often and I think I may go for it after I cook up these lamb chops and greens, which incidentally I would prefer bagged separately if you please, madam; or (2) I'm cheating on my wife.  If the supermarket clerk happens to think the latter, that's their problem.  If the former, they would be correct and I have no problem with that.

That's a factor drilled home by christianity.

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Paul talks about letting others see your conduct, Jesus about being a light. You're talking about buying jumbo boxes as if doing things with abandon. You spend a lot of time promoting christianity on here and how can others respect it when they're told something is forbidden by God at one point then allowed with abandon after another? We're sowing to the flesh one minute then when married treating each other like objects, idolising sex and turning it into a selfish, self-gratifying device. It's like saying "you can have limitless sex but only if you do what I say, join us".

Well, if you see anything in my post that reads like idolizing sex, being selfish, or treating someone like an object, you really have completely missed the point.  Color me not surprised.

No, literally, color me surprised.  Please.  Here, you can use these:  

[7thHanyou]

You know, I've been unmarried for 24 years and I don't really have a problem with Christianity's prohibition on premarital sex, nor do I see it as any kind of double standard.  There are appropriate times for everything.  The appropriate time to indulge in sex for pleasure is within the bounds of a marriage ordained by God.

Again, it seems to me you're imposing a set of rules on the Bible that just ain't there, Andy.

[AndyDT]

Who says it's ordained by God? One's inner God I can accept but not authority figures. .Never such figures in my view.

Similarly if I have the chance for other kinds of sex with adult women, and I have, I have declined because I didn't want to treat them as an object or give the impression I was on the take or an object, even though they would have had the pleasure. That's intuition - God within -  speaking as far as I'm concerned not some external rule.

If I felt it would be a loving thing to do, only an *act* of God would stop me, not some rule or human decree.

[hefdaddy42]

 

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I don't get it either

[Perpetual Change]

Who says it's ordained by God? One's inner God I can accept but not authority figures. .Never such figures in my view.

Both God and many other albiet lesser authority figures have given us plenty of proof that it's OK.

[lordxizor]

This thread confuses me.