Get Out And Vote!

[Perpetual Change]

Em, why do you care so much about how the local people of Kentucky chose to govern themselves?

In other news, I kinda wish the Republicans had won the majority today. That way, I could blame everything bad about the Obama presidency on the Republican majority of his 2nd term, much the same way EPICVIEW and others here blame things that were obviously Bush's fault of the fact that the democrats eventually won the house and senate after the damage had already been done.

[Chino]

Prop 19 didn't pass

What's prop 19?

Pot legalization in California. I'm pretty saddened also, and I'm not a smoker.

I can't be mad at the voters of California, but them voting no just fucked the rest of the country at having any chance.

[Tick]

Tick, what's going on in Bridgeport. I missed some stuff and now they are talking about lawyers and lawsuits and the polls are staying open until ten..??..

EDIT:

Holy Shit this is a cluster fuck if I ever saw one.

I have no idea, but I'm willing to bet "those dirty liberals are trying to steal the election!"  Or maybe it's the Republicans.  Who knows.  What I do know is that we'll see more allegations of wrongdoing than ever, this time around.

I wanted to observe this earlier, but Epicview had already thrown out the voter fraud card and I definitely wanted to keep my distance.  Both sides will point at the other and more and more races will be settled in courts.  Welcome to the new age of tactical disenfranchisement. 

The Bridgeport vote is a complete cluster fuck and this morning I woke to a 50% to 49% close race. The Republican is winning by only 8,000 votes. Now being that Bridgeport is a heavily democratic city, this fuck up will no doubt leave the Connecticut Governors race in limbo for I believe quite some time. What a complete joke. Running out of paper ballots... wow!

[Tick]

See I know nothing about the current elections since I've been completely disconnected from the news for a long time so maybe it's not fair for me to judge but I just looked up the person you guys are talking about and he sounds like an utter piece of shit.
I was not aware of what the tea party movement is until sometime earlier last month and it sounds like a neighborhood friendly version of the KKK which is okay but then shamelessly calling someone's God a "monkey God" and still passing as a legit representative of the movement just makes my cheek so red as I boil trying to find out why I personally deserve this.
Or am I misunderstanding something?

That told me he heard of them for the first time a month ago. So? Their was still absolutely no substance whatsoever in what he wrote. IMO.
I could care less who agrees with the tea party and who thinks its a joke, that's your business. I found the KKK reference offensive. But of course nothing is offensive if it coincides with your beliefs. Then its perfectly oK.

For fuck's sake tick.  Are you going to deny that the Tea Party is the party of choice for bigots?  And I want to be perfectly clear that I'm not suggesting that the Tea Party is bigoted, only that bigots would favor it over any other option.

And in terms of offensive remarks, one of the national leaders called his God a monkey.  Now, you don't think he has reason to be offended by that?

Yes, his remark is offensive.
Plenty of individual remarks that border the absurd are made quite often by both parties. You want the entire party to be held accountable for an idiot? That's like going to a sporting event where someone gets doused with a cup of beer, and people want to rip the fans of that stadium holding 80,000 guilty for the actions of one. You see that mentality all the time. Is it right?

Their is a mob mentality here against Epicview because he goes against the popular view of the board. At least right or wrong he is paying attention and makes his remarks based on what he see's and feels. He is involved in the process.
The KKK remark was made by someone who has zero clue about what he is speaking about. He heard one soundbite and repeated it, but you can have his back if you wish. Just don't expect me to accept something I think was a joke.
Can we be done and move on now, cause neither of us will find common ground on this.
Thus the reason I generally avoid this section of the board. It is completely bias IMHO.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

To be fair, just because he did not display to you and us any evidence that he did research it, you cannot go the other way and automatically assume that he did NOT research it, because there is no specific evidence to indicate that he didn't.  Just because there's no proof that something is 100% proven to be white, doesn't automatically mean that it MUST be black.

[Perpetual Change]

Their is a mob mentality here against Epicview because he goes against the popular view of the board.

That's absolutely not true. Every thread epicview enters turns into a shitstorm, and it's not because of the regulars here who have regular civil discussions where vast disagreements occur every day.  It's because epicview derails every thread into a discussion of "Obama's connections," and doesn't respond to counterpoints in a way that shows he's actually considered anything at all, if even read them.

[Tick]

To be fair, just because he did not display to you and us any evidence that he did research it, you cannot go the other way and automatically assume that he did NOT research it, because there is no specific evidence to indicate that he didn't.  Just because there's no proof that something is 100% proven to be white, doesn't automatically mean that it MUST be black.

Ok, maybe that is true but their is no evidence to support that. If Metty decides to defend my criticism, I'm willing to hear him out.

I will however take umbridge with this remark by Barto...

"For fuck's sake tick.  Are you going to deny that the Tea Party is the party of choice for bigots? "

Really? you want to make blanket statements like that and think I should embrace it? To that I would respond...
What a double standard. The same thing can be said about the Democratic party. I could easily call them the party of bigots if I want to single out certain factions that illustrate my point. The strong ethnic vote which greatly impacted Barack Obama's election as president could be considered bigots as well because many don't have a clue and just voted for the Black guy who will continue to give them a free ride in life and keep those welfare checks coming off the backs of rich old Whitey.
Is that fair? Its just as fair as what Barto said.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

To be fair, just because he did not display to you and us any evidence that he did research it, you cannot go the other way and automatically assume that he did NOT research it, because there is no specific evidence to indicate that he didn't.  Just because there's no proof that something is 100% proven to be white, doesn't automatically mean that it MUST be black.

Ok, maybe that is true but their is no evidence to support that. If Metty decides to defend my criticism, I'm willing to hear him out.

Right.  No evidence to support it either way.  So if he wants to clarify, cool, but if not, we can't assume he has or has not researched it.

As far as what EB said, I've seen enough of the tea partiers to reach the same conclusion.  And I know a HELL of a lot of white people who voted for Obama as well and that's just in my circle of friends.  Tons of white people voted for Obama, so I don't personally feel like he won because of the blacks.  No, I have not researched it and I do not intend to, but I'm also not stating my feelings as fact.  And using the term "Whitey", is invoking racial emotion, whether you realize it or not.

[Seventh Son]

Their is a mob mentality here against Epicview because he goes against the popular view of the board. At least right or wrong he is paying attention and makes his remarks based on what he see's and feels. He is involved in the process.
The KKK remark was made by someone who has zero clue about what he is speaking about. He heard one soundbite and repeated it, but you can have his back if you wish. Just don't expect me to accept something I think was a joke.
Can we be done and move on now, cause neither of us will find common ground on this.
Thus the reason I generally avoid this section of the board. It is completely bias IMHO.

lmao
Thanks for confirming you don't read anything on this board and all and simply jump to conclusions without considering anything at all.

[Sigz]

The strong ethnic vote which greatly impacted Barack Obama's election as president could be considered bigots as well because many don't have a clue and just voted for the Black guy who will continue to give them a free ride in life and keep those welfare checks coming off the backs of rich old Whitey.

Ignoring the "greatly impacted election" part and the extreme stereotypes of this post for a second, how is voting for someone who's going to extend your welfare bigoted? What does that even have to do with the race of the candidate?

[j]

Not that I endorse *everything* Tick's saying, but I think it'd be foolish to deny that there was a very significant slice of voters in the last presidential election whose vote was derived primarily from race.  Tick didn't say Obama won because of some collective "racist black vote".  He just said that type of bigotry is comparable to the bigotry the Tea Partiers are being accused of, and I agree.

But tick, although the wackos may not be representative of the Tea Party's overall political leanings or original intentions, it has clearly been the faction of choice for a strangely high number of outspoken lunatics.  That doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere, but in the events leading up to these elections, the crazy people who associate themselves with the Tea Partiers have been the loudest of all crazy people.

-J

[Tick]

To be fair, just because he did not display to you and us any evidence that he did research it, you cannot go the other way and automatically assume that he did NOT research it, because there is no specific evidence to indicate that he didn't.  Just because there's no proof that something is 100% proven to be white, doesn't automatically mean that it MUST be black.

Ok, maybe that is true but their is no evidence to support that. If Metty decides to defend my criticism, I'm willing to hear him out.

Right.  No evidence to support it either way.  So if he wants to clarify, cool, but if not, we can't assume he has or has not researched it.

As far as what EB said, I've seen enough of the tea partiers to reach the same conclusion.  And I know a HELL of a lot of white people who voted for Obama as well and that's just in my circle of friends.  Tons of white people voted for Obama, so I don't personally feel like he won because of the blacks.  No, I have not researched it and I do not intend to, but I'm also not stating my feelings as fact.  And using the term "Whitey", is invoking racial emotion, whether you realize it or not.

Calling the tea party bigots is not racially motivated? I should just accept it? Double standard, again. Fine change it to the White man. I was making a point not trying to evoke racial emotions.
You proved my point in your post. I'm not trying to be a jerk. Obviously plenty of White people voted for Obama. My point was you can't stereotype a group as a whole as racists. Its unfair no matter what conclusion you have also drawn personally, just as you shouldn't paint the Black or Hispanic voter a bigot for voting for Obama. See my point?

[Perpetual Change]

For fuck's sake tick, why'd you completely ignore my post 

[Tick]

For fuck's sake tick, why'd you completely ignore my post 

I read it PC. I would never ignore something you wrote. I read them all. I just cant to respond to every thing directed at me,(or just don't want to) so I pick and choose my battles. I don't want to become a dick in peoples eyes, but I feel I should respectfully be able to present my point of view even if it is contrary to the majority opinion.
I'm just pointing out that when many are like minded their is a double standard taking place that they don't want to recognize. I'm just pointing that out even if my words are unpopular or met with mostly criticism.

Oh and j, right on, you totally understood what I was trying to convey and I respect your response completely.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Calling the tea party bigots is not racially motivated? I should just accept it? Double standard, again. Fine change it to the White man. I was making a point not trying to evoke racial emotions.

I didn't mean to say that one is and one isn't.  "Bigot" is a socially acceptable term for referencing a person's dislike for a particular race.  "Whitey" is a racially charged word that is generally used to stir peoples' emotions in a negative way.  I'm not saying that you're purposely using racially charged words, I don't think you're that kind of person, I was simply pointing out that it maybe isn't the finest choice of terms when trying to make a point that the other side is as bigoted/racist as the tea partiers.  But as you said, I know you weren't purposely trying to evoke racial emotions, so no big deal.  And no, I never suggested that you should just accept it.  Just stating my opinion.

Not that I endorse *everything* Tick's saying, but I think it'd be foolish to deny that there was a very significant slice of voters in the last presidential election whose vote was derived primarily from race.  Tick didn't say Obama won because of some collective "racist black vote".  He just said that type of bigotry is comparable to the bigotry the Tea Partiers are being accused of, and I agree.

But tick, although the wackos may not be representative of the Tea Party's overall political leanings or original intentions, it has clearly been the faction of choice for a strangely high number of outspoken lunatics.  That doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere, but in the events leading up to these elections, the crazy people who associate themselves with the Tea Partiers have been the loudest of all crazy people.

-J

I don't deny that they had a lot to do with it, but it feels like when people bring this point up, it always seems to come across that way - like "he won because of the blacks".  Whether it's intended that way or not, that's how it comes across.

And yes, the TP people HAVE been the loudest as far as crazy goes.  No, the tea party is NOT the Republicans.  However, the more outspoken your crazy is ("Kill him!"), the more likely it will be tied to the party you endorse.

[Perpetual Change]

For fuck's sake tick, why'd you completely ignore my post 

I read it PC. I would never ignore something you wrote. I read them all. I just cant to respond to every thing directed at me,(or just don't want to) so I pick and choose my battles. I don't want to become a dick in peoples eyes, but I feel I should respectfully be able to present my point of view even if it is contrary to the majority opinion.
I'm just pointing out that when many are like minded their is a double standard taking place that they don't want to recognize. I'm just pointing that out even if my words are unpopular or met with mostly criticism.

Oh and j, right on, you totally understood what I was trying to convey and I respect your response completely.

I just think you coddling EPICVIEW when the way he posts really runs counter-good discussion is like coddling Nicky just because maybe you or someone you know used to be like that too. Granted it's not ALL Epic's fault and he doesn't ALWAYS deserve what gets thrown his way, but I just have a hard time believing you've read through the threads he's posted in and don't think he could present himself a lot better.

[Tick]

For fuck's sake tick, why'd you completely ignore my post 

I read it PC. I would never ignore something you wrote. I read them all. I just cant to respond to every thing directed at me,(or just don't want to) so I pick and choose my battles. I don't want to become a dick in peoples eyes, but I feel I should respectfully be able to present my point of view even if it is contrary to the majority opinion.
I'm just pointing out that when many are like minded their is a double standard taking place that they don't want to recognize. I'm just pointing that out even if my words are unpopular or met with mostly criticism.

Oh and j, right on, you totally understood what I was trying to convey and I respect your response completely.

I just think you coddling EPICVIEW when the way he posts really runs counter-good discussion is like coddling Nicky just because maybe you or someone you know used to be like that too. Granted it's not ALL Epic's fault and he doesn't ALWAYS deserve what gets thrown his way, but I just have a hard time believing you've read through the threads he's posted in and don't think he could present himself a lot better.

In fairness you are correct, I have not read a lot of what he has written so maybe I should have left him out of my criticism. In fact I should have. My apologizes.
However, please don't let that define every thought I have conveyed and make it null and void simply for that reason. That is all I ask.

[Perpetual Change]

I've not ignored your other thoughts. I just don't disagree with them or agree with, at least not enough to warrant commentary.

[El Barto]

Damn, Tick.  I went out of my way to make sure my point was clear.  I called the tea party the party of choice FOR bigots, and specifically said that it wasn't a party OF bigots.  And the first thing you do is misconstrue that very point.  There are tons of things in the world that unintentionally attract a negative fringe element, and the reasonable thing is to try and not hold that against them. 

Now, your point about Obama getting plenty of votes because he is [kind of, sort of] black is perfectly valid.  I hadn't considered that.  It's also irrelevant.  Not only was Obama not running yesterday,  he wasn't the one making inflammatory and offensive remarks about somebody's monkey God.

Metty did enough research to find out that, whether you like it or not, there's a racist element to the tea party.  He got it right.  As a general rule, the KKK set is going to be more attracted to the tea party for a variety of reasons.  For now I'm willing to give the tea party the benefit of the doubt and say that bigots are unwanted within the movement.  However, when party leaders make remarks such as that, and the monkey God remark was only one of them, by the way, then they make it a little harder to believe that.  If you support that particular movement, then you should probably be encouraging them to try and distance themselves from racist assholes.  Like I told you the other day, sometimes support comes from areas that you'd prefer it didn't. 

[GuineaPig]

For some reason I think the number of people voting for Obama because he's black would be more than made up for the number of people not voting for him for the same reason.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Another very good point.

[EPICVIEW]

Damn, Tick.  I went out of my way to make sure my point was clear.  I called the tea party the party of choice FOR bigots, and specifically said that it wasn't a party OF bigots.  And the first thing you do is misconstrue that very point.  There are tons of things in the world that unintentionally attract a negative fringe element, and the reasonable thing is to try and not hold that against them. 

Now, your point about Obama getting plenty of votes because he is [kind of, sort of] black is perfectly valid.  I hadn't considered that.  It's also irrelevant.  Not only was Obama not running yesterday,  he wasn't the one making inflammatory and offensive remarks about somebody's monkey God.

Metty did enough research to find out that, whether you like it or not, there's a racist element to the tea party.  He got it right.  As a general rule, the KKK set is going to be more attracted to the tea party for a variety of reasons.  For now I'm willing to give the tea party the benefit of the doubt and say that bigots are unwanted within the movement.  However, when party leaders make remarks such as that, and the monkey God remark was only one of them, by the way, then they make it a little harder to believe that.  If you support that particular movement, then you should probably be encouraging them to try and distance themselves from racist assholes.  Like I told you the other day, sometimes support comes from areas that you'd prefer it didn't. 

But.. why would anyone think that the Tea party, GOP or Dem politcal minions would be devoid of bigots or , think that one group has more or less bigots...

so once again, you speak in absolutes that I dont get EB?

[Tick]

For some reason I think the number of people voting for Obama because he's black would be more than made up for the number of people not voting for him for the same reason.

Fair point and true, but that is not why I said what I said. I was pointing out the fact their is a bigotry element in every party, that was my point.
and yes Barto, you definitely want to distance yourself from it.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

But.. why would anyone think that the Tea party, GOP or Dem politcal minions would be devoid of bigots or , think that one group has more or less bigots...

Probably because the Tea Party appears to be a lot more vocal about it.  The louder your crazy is, the bigger it looks.

[rumborak]

But.. why would anyone think that the Tea party, GOP or Dem politcal minions would be devoid of bigots or , think that one group has more or less bigots...

Because the Republicans didn't allow for such obvious hatred for Obama. So, there was this pent-up potential in the population that vented through the Tea Party. And it attracted a lot of people who simply used the supposed platform of the Tea Party as a way of getting back at the black president.

rumborak

[El Barto]

Some parties promote positions that are favorable to specific groups.  At the moment, gay people tend to lean democratic.  Right or wrong, they associate it with less discrimination, supporting gay marriage, and a better party for AIDs research.  I wouldn't call the democrats the gay party ( though I suspect you might  ), it's just the one that's more favorable for them right now.  The same thing applies to the tea party and racists.  White, God fearing people who have distinct issues with Mexicans and Muslims.  If I were a clansman, I'm pretty sure I'd be supporting tea party candidates.

[Perpetual Change]

For what it's worth, I think Obama's scared off more than a few bigoted democrats. It's not like they didn't exist before he came into office.

[EPICVIEW]

But.. why would anyone think that the Tea party, GOP or Dem politcal minions would be devoid of bigots or , think that one group has more or less bigots...

Probably because the Tea Party appears to be a lot more vocal about it.  The louder your crazy is, the bigger it looks.

I think to the bigger point the Tea Party has been slandered by that libel, by the liberals who fear it in the media..there was much more signs of bigotry at the Stewart rally..then at any Tea Party gathering..

this why most of my gripes surround the liberal media..and how they sway masses with lies , or things they dont report..




Good morning SGC!

[rumborak]

The liberal media, the default answer of conservatives

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

I voted. First time.

congrats!

[Perpetual Change]

Epic, you do know that Steward spent his rally insulting the mainstream media, right?

[rumborak]

You're using facts, and those have a liberal bias, PC.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

The liberal media, the default answer of conservatives

rumborak

No its the truth..Yellow Journalism runs rampant in the Liberal papers

[Perpetual Change]

I can't wait to hear what the "liberal papers" are.

[EPICVIEW]

Epic, you do know that Steward spent his rally insulting the mainstream media, right?

Good Morning PC!..

thats sorta my point.. Stewart may have, but many who came had very vile signs..my point is he couldnt control that.. whackos exist in all groups..

BUT, the media didnt report that about the Stewart rally....BUT, they planted shills at the Tea Party rallies and the medai reported it as "there was crazy bigots at the Tea Party "..


do you see my point of the hypocrisy?