Get Out And Vote!

[Tick]

What we need to do next election is make sure every single American doesn't go to the polls.

Well if Obama had his way he would make it so your dream came true.

What is this supposed to mean?

It was sarcasm. I'll leave it open to interpretation.

[Seventh Son]

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA!!!


Now that that's out of the way, all three points are dead on.

Damn it, Barto:



Tick, I don't exclude myself from the category of "ignorant dipshit".  I very well may be one, but I'm constantly doing my best to learn and keep myself informed, and my conclusion is that it's painfully obvious that our brand of democracy here in the states is a failure on many levels.  I don't delude myself into thinking that I can learn anything real about a politician or what he will do if elected, not that it matters anyway for reasons outlined previously.  Therefore, I haven't voted for the past couple of years because I am opposed to this broken system in its current form.

Do I do absolutely everything in my power to fight for reform?  No.  I grew tired of politics while still in college, I have other priorities and responsibilities, and lack the desire, motivation, and time.  So if this country falls apart due to my inactivity, I'm prepared to accept responsibility.

Just because somebody votes doesn't mean they're not an idiot.  Would you really dispute that?

-J

No, I don't want to be quite that insulting. But to the person who belly aches about stuff he could possibly help change, I personally don't want to hear it.
We all hate our current Government situation but we can only do so much. I feel I do what little I can to make myself feel better.

Protip: Voting for the less evil of the two fuck-ups doesn't help change anything in the slightest.

[Tick]

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA!!!


Now that that's out of the way, all three points are dead on.

Damn it, Barto:



Tick, I don't exclude myself from the category of "ignorant dipshit".  I very well may be one, but I'm constantly doing my best to learn and keep myself informed, and my conclusion is that it's painfully obvious that our brand of democracy here in the states is a failure on many levels.  I don't delude myself into thinking that I can learn anything real about a politician or what he will do if elected, not that it matters anyway for reasons outlined previously.  Therefore, I haven't voted for the past couple of years because I am opposed to this broken system in its current form.

Do I do absolutely everything in my power to fight for reform?  No.  I grew tired of politics while still in college, I have other priorities and responsibilities, and lack the desire, motivation, and time.  So if this country falls apart due to my inactivity, I'm prepared to accept responsibility.

Just because somebody votes doesn't mean they're not an idiot.  Would you really dispute that?

-J

No, I don't want to be quite that insulting. But to the person who belly aches about stuff he could possibly help change, I personally don't want to hear it.
We all hate our current Government situation but we can only do so much. I feel I do what little I can to make myself feel better.

Protip: Voting for the less evil of the two fuck-ups doesn't help change anything in the slightest.

Yeah...it does.

[Seventh Son]

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA!!!


Now that that's out of the way, all three points are dead on.

Damn it, Barto:



Tick, I don't exclude myself from the category of "ignorant dipshit".  I very well may be one, but I'm constantly doing my best to learn and keep myself informed, and my conclusion is that it's painfully obvious that our brand of democracy here in the states is a failure on many levels.  I don't delude myself into thinking that I can learn anything real about a politician or what he will do if elected, not that it matters anyway for reasons outlined previously.  Therefore, I haven't voted for the past couple of years because I am opposed to this broken system in its current form.

Do I do absolutely everything in my power to fight for reform?  No.  I grew tired of politics while still in college, I have other priorities and responsibilities, and lack the desire, motivation, and time.  So if this country falls apart due to my inactivity, I'm prepared to accept responsibility.

Just because somebody votes doesn't mean they're not an idiot.  Would you really dispute that?

-J

No, I don't want to be quite that insulting. But to the person who belly aches about stuff he could possibly help change, I personally don't want to hear it.
We all hate our current Government situation but we can only do so much. I feel I do what little I can to make myself feel better.

Protip: Voting for the less evil of the two fuck-ups doesn't help change anything in the slightest.

Yeah...it does.

If it did, America's political system wouldn't be fucked as it is.

[ehra]

It, at the very least, slows down the downward spiral. And if you're lucky then future candidates start to notice the trends that generate votes and begin to adopt those policies (still with new minor differences that you must once again weigh the pros and cons of). Rinse and repeat. They're not exactly the same, so you pick one over the other.

It's amazing how any other time of the year this forum is full of topics arguing over if X person is doing or did good and if Y person would have been better or worse, but once election time comes around some of those same people are suddenly saying they're all the same. I guess McCain would have given us the same healthcare bill we got with Obama. They're all the same.

[Tick]

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA!!!


Now that that's out of the way, all three points are dead on.

Damn it, Barto:



Tick, I don't exclude myself from the category of "ignorant dipshit".  I very well may be one, but I'm constantly doing my best to learn and keep myself informed, and my conclusion is that it's painfully obvious that our brand of democracy here in the states is a failure on many levels.  I don't delude myself into thinking that I can learn anything real about a politician or what he will do if elected, not that it matters anyway for reasons outlined previously.  Therefore, I haven't voted for the past couple of years because I am opposed to this broken system in its current form.

Do I do absolutely everything in my power to fight for reform?  No.  I grew tired of politics while still in college, I have other priorities and responsibilities, and lack the desire, motivation, and time.  So if this country falls apart due to my inactivity, I'm prepared to accept responsibility.

Just because somebody votes doesn't mean they're not an idiot.  Would you really dispute that?

-J

No, I don't want to be quite that insulting. But to the person who belly aches about stuff he could possibly help change, I personally don't want to hear it.
We all hate our current Government situation but we can only do so much. I feel I do what little I can to make myself feel better.

Protip: Voting for the less evil of the two fuck-ups doesn't help change anything in the slightest.

Yeah...it does.

If it did, America's political system wouldn't be fucked as it is.

We can only do what we can. I didn't like the candidates before me today very much, but I do believe one choice was better and gave me more hope then the other. Will it? Probably not, but I can dream.

[Chino]

What would happen if 80% of the country refused to go out and vote?

[Seventh Son]

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA!!!


Now that that's out of the way, all three points are dead on.

Damn it, Barto:



Tick, I don't exclude myself from the category of "ignorant dipshit".  I very well may be one, but I'm constantly doing my best to learn and keep myself informed, and my conclusion is that it's painfully obvious that our brand of democracy here in the states is a failure on many levels.  I don't delude myself into thinking that I can learn anything real about a politician or what he will do if elected, not that it matters anyway for reasons outlined previously.  Therefore, I haven't voted for the past couple of years because I am opposed to this broken system in its current form.

Do I do absolutely everything in my power to fight for reform?  No.  I grew tired of politics while still in college, I have other priorities and responsibilities, and lack the desire, motivation, and time.  So if this country falls apart due to my inactivity, I'm prepared to accept responsibility.

Just because somebody votes doesn't mean they're not an idiot.  Would you really dispute that?

-J

No, I don't want to be quite that insulting. But to the person who belly aches about stuff he could possibly help change, I personally don't want to hear it.
We all hate our current Government situation but we can only do so much. I feel I do what little I can to make myself feel better.

Protip: Voting for the less evil of the two fuck-ups doesn't help change anything in the slightest.

Yeah...it does.

If it did, America's political system wouldn't be fucked as it is.

We can only do what we can. I didn't like the candidates before me today very much, but I do believe one choice was better and gave me more hope then the other. Will it? Probably not, but I can dream.

Well I'm cynical in nature
If I honestly believed it would make a difference, then I would go out and vote.

It, at the very least, slows down the downward spiral. And if you're lucky then future candidates start to notice the trends that generate votes and begin to adopt those policies (still with new minor differences that you must once again weigh the pros and cons of). Rinse and repeat. They're not exactly the same, so you pick one over the other.

It's amazing how any other time of the year this forum is full of topics arguing over if X person is doing or did good and if Y person would have been better or worse, but once election time comes around some of those same people are suddenly saying they're all the same. I guess McCain would have given us the same healthcare bill we got with Obama. They're all the same.

I'm not convinced that the downward spiral can be slowed down.

Its two sides of the same coin. They'll both fuck you over, just in different ways. But the end result will likely be the same.

What would happen if 80% of the country refused to go out and vote?

The politicians fight each other for the remaining 20% of voters?

[ehra]

I'm not convinced that the downward spiral can be slowed down.

Its two sides of the same coin. They'll both fuck you over, just in different ways. But the end result will likely be the same.

The point I'm trying to make is that some forms of non-consensual anal intrusions are preferable to and less harmful than others, hence why we vote.

[Seventh Son]

I'm not convinced that the downward spiral can be slowed down.

Its two sides of the same coin. They'll both fuck you over, just in different ways. But the end result will likely be the same.

The point I'm trying to make is that some forms of non-consensual anal intrusions are preferable to and less harmful than others, hence why we vote.

Non-consensual anal intrusion is non-consensual anal intrusion. No matter how you try to pretty it up, its gonna be painful.

Put a respectable candidate out there, and I will vote.

[rumborak]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

[Chino]

This illustrates some of my points.

[j]

It, at the very least, slows down the downward spiral. And if you're lucky then future candidates start to notice the trends that generate votes and begin to adopt those policies (still with new minor differences that you must once again weigh the pros and cons of). Rinse and repeat. They're not exactly the same, so you pick one over the other.

In an ideal world, this is how it might work.  Do you see current candidates working off of previous trends that were successful?  Just one: they all know that in order to get in office, they have to tell the public what they want to hear.  That's it.  Harsh realities and brutal honesty don't win elections.  To make matters worse, the American public are pretty dumb and easily influenced by neatly-packaged bullshit.

Once in office, confounding factors kick in and it's another impotent story altogether.

IMO, one of the biggest obstacles to any kind of progress is "party loyalty".  Unfortunately, it's so entrenched in our culture that I don't know if it's possible to change it.

It's amazing how any other time of the year this forum is full of topics arguing over if X person is doing or did good and if Y person would have been better or worse, but once election time comes around some of those same people are suddenly saying they're all the same. I guess McCain would have given us the same healthcare bill we got with Obama. They're all the same.

Health care reform under a Republican president absolutely would have been quite similar to what we got from Obama.  His bill is so castrated and watered down that it doesn't even satisfy his own party, and that's exactly the type of legislation that would have come from a McCain presidency.  Everybody in this country knows that we need health care reform, and the party gridlock regarding the "how" (among other things) will keep anything effective from being passed.  They're all the same.

And if you're referring to me with the first part of that, I don't make a habit of posting in X vs. Y type topics, and I'm not sure where I've changed my tune with regard to all of this.

-J

[El Barto]

A thought that occurs to me is that if you do vote, then you're part of the problem.  The system is horribly broken and getting worse every 2 years.  As I suggested in my "fuck democracy" thread, the only thing that could change it is a fundamental change in the American psyche, and good luck with that.  The problem is that people keep playing the game, and thereby reinforcing the problem.  People say "I'm tired of partisan bickering" and "I don't like all this mud-slinging," yet they still go out and vote for the people they're complaining about.  I'd say that the better way to work on changing the system would be for everybody to stay home rather than voting for the lesser of two dipshits.  People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

[Chino]

A thought that occurs to me is that if you do vote, then you're part of the problem.  The system is horribly broken and getting worse every 2 years.  As I suggested in my "fuck democracy" thread, the only thing that could change it is a fundamental change in the American psyche, and good luck with that.  The problem is that people keep playing the game, and thereby reinforcing the problem.  People say "I'm tired of partisan bickering" and "I don't like all this mud-slinging," yet they still go out and vote for the people they're complaining about.  I'd say that the better way to work on changing the system would be for everybody to stay home rather than voting for the lesser of two dipshits.  People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

I have been trying to come up with a way to put my thoughts into words all day. You just hit the nail right on the head.
 

[Seventh Son]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

I think that's the only appropriate measure, to be honest. Picking someone you don't like to represent only because "Its your civic duty" is every bit as juvenile, probably more so.

While I'm at it, do you want your ass waxed or shined?

[Chino]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

I'm not quitting, I just challenging the system that we have all become accustomed to.

[ehra]

And if you're referring to me with the first part of that, I don't make a habit of posting in X vs. Y type topics, and I'm not sure where I've changed my tune with regard to all of this.

-J

I'm not sure if I have anyone specific in mind, just a general trend I've noticed (could be imaginary, too).

[Tick]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

I'm not quitting, I just challenging the system that we have all become accustomed to.

by doing what? Nothing? Let me know how that works out for ya.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

I'm not quitting, I just challenging the system that we have all become accustomed to.

and the system isn't any worse off without your vote. In fact, it empowers it. Not that the system will every change anyway

Look at it this way: Generally, if a party in power knows they're going to lose their power/majority, the constituents of that party are FAR less likely to vote. That sort of apathy empowers the minority party and allows them the win. Who knows, but that by just voting for the people you actually WANT to stay in power they CAN stay in power. That's why I voted today.

[ehra]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to deal with someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

[El Barto]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to treat someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

But contrary to what PLM just posted, voting for any of them empowers them all.  Everybody hates politicians, but then turn around and say you have to vote for them or you'll make matters worse.  Everybody should refuse to vote until there's actually somebody really worth voting for.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to treat someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

But contrary to what PLM just posted, voting for any of them empowers them all.  Everybody hates politicians, but then turn around and say you have to vote for them or you'll make matters worse.  Everybody should refuse to vote until there's actually somebody really worth voting for.

Unfortunately, I don't think that'd ever work. With nobody to place anybody in power, that leaves space for any authoritarian or dictator or whatnot to come in and take over. Granted, that's a worst case scenario and would never happen, because the likelihood of everybody NOT voting is about .000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

[ehra]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to treat someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

But contrary to what PLM just posted, voting for any of them empowers them all.  Everybody hates politicians, but then turn around and say you have to vote for them or you'll make matters worse.  Everybody should refuse to vote until there's actually somebody really worth voting for.

If you really want to go that route, I'd think getting everyone to write-in the same person would be more effective than apathy.

edit: But I really don't see what that would accomplish. I can't imagine they'd go "well, no one voted. I guess no one gets in office then."

[Chino]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

I'm not quitting, I just challenging the system that we have all become accustomed to.

by doing what? Nothing? Let me know how that works out for ya.

I'd proudly do nothing before being forced to vote for someone like Linda McMahon, Christine Odonell, or Alan "the shortbus" Greene. I mean really people, look at the shit we have to choose between. It's fucking bullshit. The whole system is a sham.

[El Barto]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to treat someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

But contrary to what PLM just posted, voting for any of them empowers them all.  Everybody hates politicians, but then turn around and say you have to vote for them or you'll make matters worse.  Everybody should refuse to vote until there's actually somebody really worth voting for.

Unfortunately, I don't think that'd ever work. With nobody to place anybody in power, that leaves space for any authoritarian or dictator or whatnot to come in and take over. Granted, that's a worst case scenario and would never happen, because the likelihood of everybody NOT voting is about .000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

And that would be worse than the illusion of control, would it?

[PlaysLikeMyung]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to treat someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

But contrary to what PLM just posted, voting for any of them empowers them all.  Everybody hates politicians, but then turn around and say you have to vote for them or you'll make matters worse.  Everybody should refuse to vote until there's actually somebody really worth voting for.

Unfortunately, I don't think that'd ever work. With nobody to place anybody in power, that leaves space for any authoritarian or dictator or whatnot to come in and take over. Granted, that's a worst case scenario and would never happen, because the likelihood of everybody NOT voting is about .000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

And that would be worse than the illusion of control, would it?

Well, I suppose we can hope for a benevolent dictator, but who knows?

It's just something that wouldn't happen in America, though I'm sure there are people ambitious enough to try and take control if they know there's a wide opening

[Seventh Son]

People need to start thinking of politicians as trolls and just stop feeding them.  

This is an interesting way of thinking of things, but I don't think it'd be the best idea to treat someone who could potentially have devastating effects on the country or the world the same way as someone who acts annoying on the internet.

But contrary to what PLM just posted, voting for any of them empowers them all.  Everybody hates politicians, but then turn around and say you have to vote for them or you'll make matters worse.  Everybody should refuse to vote until there's actually somebody really worth voting for.

This is pretty much what I'm saying.

[ehra]

I'm not saying this from the "if you don't like 'merica then get awut!" point of view, but wouldn't the best way of showing the government that you're/we're tired of not actually having any choice be to leave? Or to get someone that actually would "fix the problems" with the government (in a way everyone would agree with, which we'll assume can even happen), get them to run, then have everyone vote for that person?

If just seems like if someone wants to have some kind of effect then there are so many better ways than "don't vote."

[Pyroph]

Well obviously that would be the way to go, but as previously stated about the system, it's the two big parties. You're not going to get someone like that in there over the big reps.

[Chino]

I'm not saying this from the "if you don't like 'merica then get awut!" point of view, but wouldn't the best way of showing the government that you're/we're tired of not actually having any choice be to leave?

Much easier said than done.

Or to get someone that actually would "fix the problems" with the government (in a way everyone would agree with, which we'll assume can even happen), get them to run, then have everyone vote for that person?

The sad thing is, unless you have millions upon millions stashed away, you aren't going to get anywhere.

If just seems like if someone wants to have some kind of effect then there are so many better ways than "don't vote."

You are correct. Me and a few others not voting wouldn't do anything. But if 90% of the people refused to vote, that would send not only a powerful message to the government, but the rest of the world.

[ehra]

I figured if we were assuming we could get 90% of the country to not vote then we could get 90% of the country to vote for one specific person. 

[j]

Frankly, I find this " I don't like any of you, so I quit" attitude somewhat juvenile. Get over yourself.

rumborak

Quite the belittling misrepresentation of the position being discussed, impressive.  If you ran for office, I'd probably vote for you!

-J

[Chino]

Tick, what's going on in Bridgeport. I missed some stuff and now they are talking about lawyers and lawsuits and the polls are staying open until ten..??..

EDIT:

Holy Shit this is a cluster fuck if I ever saw one.

[Chino]

I figured if we were assuming we could get 90% of the country to not vote then we could get 90% of the country to vote for one specific person. 

Not if the 90% knew that either candidate would do anything good.